Lock face wear

REK Knives

REK Knives

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Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Apr 3, 2011
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So I just got my first 7 last week (used)! Unfortunately I found that it had late lock up at 100% when flicked hard. This is a problem that I have noticed on several Emersons - lock face wear on the Ti liner. This is good and bad... Good because the lock faces will wear into each other and create a perfect fit with zero play, but bad because eventually it will wear and you will have to send it back to EKI's outstanding customer service, which is what I did :D I should have it back in a few days!

So I am wondering... does anyone have any experiences w/ hardening their ti lock face vs. carbidizing, or both? Longevity? When I get it back I'm thinking - let it break in to where I want it, then hardening the ti lock face. Thoughts?
 
It will take a long time or a lot of waving to wear that lock face. I don't know about carbidizing but I think you'll be safe for a long time when you get it back.

Besides, you can always send it in again. :)

Another solution is to rotate the stop pin which may be slightly flattened. In a severe case on a pimped knife that couldn't go back to EKI, I had a stop pin made that was .002 bigger in diameter in the center. Doesn't take much to change lock up.
 
I would go with hardening the lock interface with a torch vs carbidizing. I have carbidized a couple that were sticky and ended up with lockslip after the carbidizing process. I also noticed that the carbidizing doesn't last unless you have one of those industrial grade carbidizer that can leave a layer more than 2-3 microns like the custom makers use on Ti blades vs the ones that are a converted engraver tool with a current running through it.
 
Send it in man , I've got some Emersona that never wear and some at 50% with 3 weeks of edc. Not worth risking hour warranty when they will replace it and make it right.

On the ones I've had that had your issue they will replace the stop pin and or the liner usually a bigger stop pin does the trick .

Also the ones that have worn don't wear any in my situation at least once they go back to eki
 
Alright thanks guys, should be coming back from EKI any day and I'll see how it goes!
 
I've had my newest less than 3 weeks. Went to 40 percent the first week. Pretty much at 40 to 50 now, depending on opening.

Sometimes hits 80 if I'm cutting hard.

Again, big Emerson fan here. But I'm not a fan of the locks wearing as fast as they do. I'm the last person to give a crap about early lockup and so on. But when you can literally watch your lock travel daily, it's alarming.

I know when it hits the unusable point, I can again send it to EKI and they'll take care of it. But I dont like it being inevitable. Which it appears to be at the rate I've seen all mine age.

Every other liner lock I own stays where it is. Liners wear with use, sure, but it should be in years or decades. Not weeks or months.

Not saying they're doing anything wrong, as it's the nature of the beast. It's just one of the many peculiarities of Emerson knives I'm NOT a fan of!

But I deal with it because I love em, and I rarely carry other brands anymore.

Thx.
 
I think the "floating" (as in free to rotate) stop pin may have something to do with the variation in lockup percentage. All in all, not alarming to me.
 
True. I've only seen it matter tho, if the stop pin is highly worn.

What I mean by alarming is the steady crawl toward 100 percent as fast as it is.

I like stuff built to last, and last the way it is. I also like stuff that would survive ideological scenarios, such as Bug Out or long term field durations.

Like military operations.
If I was an operator with no way to send in a knife, it would dismay me to watch my beloved 7 look like she wouldn't keep up with the length of my deployment.

This subject is closer to changing oil in your truck. Necessary service on an already expensive object in order to keep using it. Fine with that. And fine with these knives. Is what it is.

I'll take the maintenance. I carry Emerson for a reason. But I can't help noticing that my cheap Kershaws don't wear. I can't help but wonder if they would stay usable longer in the unlikely event I was ever to need one to survive long term.

I know I'm being negative here, and the likelihood of me ever needing any gear to survive the theoretical situations I imagine is infinitesimal.

I'm just a fan of gear I can trust will virtually NEVER have to be serviced, barring actual catastrophic failure from damage or very long term use. That tiny chance of having something fail on me that one time I may need itches the OCD a little.

But it's also firmly valid to be able to fully trust your gear. Exceptions are thing that bites us in the ass.

After all it's the ONE time we forget our knife that we actually need to cut a seat belt, or the ONE time the pistol misfires that we really needed it to, or the ONE time she forget her mace, the mugger actually jumped out.

Right?

I like everything in my life, not just my knives, to be as 100 percent reliable as possible.

Anyway, just explaining what I meant by the wear rate being alarming. I'm not trying to make anything out to be a big deal, whatsoever. Just some observations and explanations from an admitted overthinker.

Funny how forums tend to attract us types, ey? My entire line of thinking is absolutely ridiculous. I fully admit it.

But it makes for interesting discussion.

Gonna go eat a taco and strop the 7.

Take care.
 
Interesting... I've never seen this on the 20+ Emersons I've owned over the years, both new and used. The lock has always been one of the most consisently dependable parts of these knives... early and solid. After the first few days of use the locks have stayed in that place for the rest of the time I've had that knife. I've never had an Emerson that locked up more than 50% even after a couple of years of use.

I know it happens because people I respect and trust have reported it here, I just haven't experienced it myself. Now, I will say here that I don't wave mine open. I just use the disk or hole to open the blade. That may have something to do with it. Sorry about yours, Josh. I'm confident that the folks at the shop will fix you up but it's really a bummer having to do that so early in the knife's career.

I have seen some threads in MTE, I think, about hardening Ti lockfaces. Some of them involved Strider lockbars but they may have some valuable info if you can find them.
 
Glad for your good fortune, Dale.

The lack of waving could well be why. Lots more energy going everywhere when inertia is present.

It's interesting you bring that up. I've noticed an interesting effect with all mine. The lockup is later on any given knife when I thumb it open, and earlier when I wave or flick. I'm thinking the slight extra pressure from thumbing it all the way against the stop pin allows the liner to slide over to its fullest potential. The flick must negate that somehow, maybe because the blade isn't fully seated against the stop pin with presssure. Both ways lock up solid, and settle to their final point when cutting.

All this just goes to show the amount of variables present in lives and knives. Different strokes.

Thx.
 
I bought that CQC-7A [waveless, year of production 2013] from first owner over a year ago. I opened it hundreds of times since then. Pic was taken when I bought it. It's still the same.

ucbeUeh.jpg
 
Got mine back, less than 2 weeks! Looks like they installed a larger stop pin so lock up is about 50-75% now, much better. Going to harden it and see how it goes...
 
115Italian said:
Nice turn around time. Any pictures?
Click to expand...

Sure here ya go! I bent the liners slightly which seemed to smoothen things up and help those air gaps I was having through the washers go away... then I lowered the lock bar tension, it was crazy high. This seemed to help with % lock up and the massive lock stick I was getting. Now it locks up at 50% and only very slight lock stick, but zero play either.

i-sHvKV7B-X2.jpg

i-X8J4fdk-X2.jpg

i-hGXVjvB-X2.jpg
 
I did the same thing once. But then my hard grip would unlock it. Is that an issue at all?
 
BellaBlades said:
I did the same thing once. But then my hard grip would unlock it. Is that an issue at all?
Click to expand...

Hasn't been yet but then again, I haven't used it hard yet. I did grip it tight and noticed that it does loosen the lock up a tad but not enough to concern me. If I find it an issue I will probably grind the lock bar in a little to subset it more so it would prevent this from happening, we will see!

I'm also planning on knocking the secondary detent out of the way, drilling a detent hole for the primary detent ball and adjusting it for much higher retention and snappiness when opening... been wanting to play w/ optimizing an emerson for a while and now I can :D
 
Nice lock up now. For me thats perfect lockup. The lockbar is just fully engaging and nothing more.
 
I wouldn't do anything to the lock face. I would send it in. Really no point in improving the design yourself if it voids the warrenty.
 
3147896f82fd0a04ae4b0f30e34ad674.jpg


I feel your pains. This is a '13 Socfk-b, '05 Commander, '14 Vindicator & a '15 CQC15. The Socfk-b would barely even lock up to maybe 10% (I could even close it with a little pressure from my finger without engaging the lockface) when I first got it a couple months ago but it has worn in very nicely.

None of the other locks bother me except the Commander. I've had several other Emerson's that have lock stick, a later than prefered lock up and some of the other minor problems buy this Commander has seemed to develop a little bit of lock rock. It will sometimes lock up as late as over 100% and other times 85-90% (just guessing on these numbers though, no scientific evidence).

I haven't seemed to notice if waving it or opening by thumb makes any difference which is a PITA because I would much rather fix it myself than sending it off for X amount of days even though I haven't carried it for this reason. It just seems like there would be some kind of fix to this solution other than sending it in every so often & I fully understand everyone has their different experiences as I even have had with my various other emersons. I do completely disassemble and reassemble them every so often and it seems to have helped with the rocking for now but only time will tell. If I had to guess, I would say it will develop the problem again but unsure about the length of time.

Let us know how the heating of the lockface with a torch helps & about the procedure you take. I'm very curious to know myself. It looks as if someone might have already done it on this lockface due to slight metal discoloration but I got it used not even a year ago and didn't notice at the time until the lock rock problem surfaced. I'll probably contact EKI tomorrow about sending it in.
 
Well, the lock bar on my Emersons goes a little further than 1/3 of the blade IF I wave-open it. Still, I think that I'll be able to fix it by either re-bending the lock bar, or hammering it (but I really don't want to, as it thins the lock bar).

I've heard that carbonitriding helps - some Russian customizers were doing this on Striders, and it helped.

And also I've seen some pics of some titanium welding on Emersons - a forum member in Russia asked a local spectacles frame makers for help, and they managed to add some welding on the lock bar. After some dremelig and adjustements the lock was rock solid.

Well, when I face the problem of the lock, I'll try to solve it, as sending my knife from Russia to USA is pain :) And - by the way - thanks for the tip about a larger stop pin ;)
 
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