Yatagan

Joined
Mar 8, 2011
Messages
1,428
Hello All, I’ve had this blade a while & despite posting it on various sub forums haven’t posted it in Swords, so here goes, any comments, opinions or info very welcome.

About twenty years ago I was working at a property being cleared out here in Southern Spain, a skip/dumpster was being filled from a rotten garage with a leaking roof, in it I spied a very rusty sword shape & needless to say it followed me back to my garage.....
I did find out the old owner of the house had travelled extensively but no more details.

It really was rusty & sadly taking photos wasn’t something that occurred to me at that time, what I do remember is it still had the remains of a handle but only just, the flared ears still existed but were fiberous, split & hairy horn pushed off the blade by rust, there was a twisted embossed triangle of brass on one side & some remains of fine brass wire.
At the time it was sword shaped rust so what I did next please forgive me if I ruined a priceless treasure! 😆
I hand sanded the worst of the rust off, pulled much of the hanging off bits from the handle & wrapped it in tape!
And there it hung through the fridge door handle in my workshop for many years, a talking point that many had a swing of...
Maybe ten years ago I’d started handling knives & though I’d make some Oak scales for this, I tried to do something similar to what I thought had been there & it was one of my earliest efforts.
At this point it was still a slightly rusty blade that I always thought was straight carbon steel...

About five years ago reading something made me wonder if it could be pattern welded steel, a test with some Ferric Cloride showed potential..... I bent a piece of PVC pipe & did a few soaks till I got to what’s shown in the images, the pattern is difficult to capture. 28" overall length.

So that’s the (slightly long) story of it!

VE3r7Dh.jpg


Vs8DBNr.jpg


ooFcIlU.jpg


The white is wax....
bYBhx5B.jpg


FULSsCl.jpg

The spine is about twice the thickness of the centre of the blade.
yy9GkNj.jpg
 
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Hello All, I’ve had this blade a while & despite posting it on various sub forums haven’t posted it in Swords, so here goes, any comments, opinions or info very welcome.

About twenty years ago I was working at a property being cleared out here in Southern Spain, a skip/dumpster was being filled from a rotten garage with a leaking roof, in it I spied a very rusty sword shape & needless to say it followed me back to my garage.....
I did find out the old owner of the house had travelled extensively but no more details.

It really was rusty & sadly taking photos wasn’t something that occurred to me at that time, what I do remember is it still had the remains of a handle but only just, the flared ears still existed but were fiberous, split & hairy horn pushed off the blade by rust, there was a twisted embossed triangle of brass on one side & some remains of fine brass wire.
At the time it was sword shaped rust so what I did next please forgive me if I ruined a priceless treasure! 😆
I hand sanded the worst of the rust off, pulled much of the hanging off bits from the handle & wrapped it in tape!
And there it hung through the fridge door handle in my workshop for many years, a talking point that many had a swing of...
Maybe ten years ago I’d started handling knives & though I’d make some Oak scales for this, I tried to do something similar to what I thought had been there & it was one of my earliest efforts.
At this point it was still a slightly rusty blade that I always thought was straight carbon steel...

About five years ago reading something made me wonder if it could be pattern welded steel, a test with some Ferric Cloride showed potential..... I bent a piece of PVC pipe & did a few soaks till I got to what’s shown in the images, the pattern is difficult to capture. 28" overall length.

So that’s the (slightly long) story of it!

VE3r7Dh.jpg


Vs8DBNr.jpg


ooFcIlU.jpg


The white is wax....
bYBhx5B.jpg


FULSsCl.jpg

The spine is about twice the thickness of the centre of the blade.
yy9GkNj.jpg
No idea about origins ...but I like it ! :cool: ;)
 
When dealing with such an unknown piece in such disrepair, it is totally understandable to not go through the proper steps in preserving/restoring the piece (and obviously preservation isn't the goal when it is already moved to the trash). It looks like you have a really special piece here! Who knows how old the blade might be? Based on your description of the handle it was found with, the spine thickness/tapered tang, and the lack of blade ornamentation, this could be anything from a VERY old blade made for proper use to an incredibly well made reproduction (most 20th century reproductions are overly ornamental).

You have a REALLY cool blade and I don't mind admitting my envy. The Yatagan is one of my favorite blades and I have been lucky enough to handle a couple of really old/unique variations. I have only one left after selling most of my collection, but it is a very unique piece found in an Ottoman stockpile in Pakistan.
SEtgVsb.jpg
 
Thanks for the comments.👍

That’s a nice sword as well Scarysamcary.

Hindsight is wonderful thing & it had often crossed my mind whether I should have left it alone but it was ruined really, if I hadn’t picked it up it would’ve gone in a landfill !
The handle I made followed the original shape of the tang & holes, it does feel really good in hand!

I’ve had an idea it might be Turkish, but that’s based on nothing more than looking at pictures online.

The stamp, or stamps as there are two close together I’ll try & get a better image of, one looks like a hammer.
 
Hello All, I’ve had this blade a while & despite posting it on various sub forums haven’t posted it in Swords, so here goes, any comments, opinions or info very welcome.

About twenty years ago I was working at a property being cleared out here in Southern Spain, a skip/dumpster was being filled from a rotten garage with a leaking roof, in it I spied a very rusty sword shape & needless to say it followed me back to my garage.....
I did find out the old owner of the house had travelled extensively but no more details.

It really was rusty & sadly taking photos wasn’t something that occurred to me at that time, what I do remember is it still had the remains of a handle but only just, the flared ears still existed but were fiberous, split & hairy horn pushed off the blade by rust, there was a twisted embossed triangle of brass on one side & some remains of fine brass wire.
At the time it was sword shaped rust so what I did next please forgive me if I ruined a priceless treasure! 😆
I hand sanded the worst of the rust off, pulled much of the hanging off bits from the handle & wrapped it in tape!
And there it hung through the fridge door handle in my workshop for many years, a talking point that many had a swing of...
Maybe ten years ago I’d started handling knives & though I’d make some Oak scales for this, I tried to do something similar to what I thought had been there & it was one of my earliest efforts.
At this point it was still a slightly rusty blade that I always thought was straight carbon steel...

About five years ago reading something made me wonder if it could be pattern welded steel, a test with some Ferric Cloride showed potential..... I bent a piece of PVC pipe & did a few soaks till I got to what’s shown in the images, the pattern is difficult to capture. 28" overall length.

So that’s the (slightly long) story of it!

VE3r7Dh.jpg


Vs8DBNr.jpg


ooFcIlU.jpg


The white is wax....
bYBhx5B.jpg


FULSsCl.jpg

The spine is about twice the thickness of the centre of the blade.
yy9GkNj.jpg
It looks like Wootz to me.

Zieg
 
regularly repeating pattern, unlike wootz

With my limited knowledge I also thought Wootz was random. According to Wikipedia not always....

"The distinct patterns of Wootz steel that can be made through forging are wave, ladder, and rose patterns with finely spaced bonds. However, with hammering, dyeing, and etching further customized patterns were made."

 
with the closer photos, I think I see bars of turkish twist layered in the traditional fashion. Are the top and bottom pitted heavily from the rust? If so, that could be what's confusing me.
 
with the closer photos, I think I see bars of turkish twist layered in the traditional fashion. Are the top and bottom pitted heavily from the rust? If so, that could be what's confusing me.

Yes it's eaten into with rust, it's not easy to tell if the pattern compresses at the spine & edge, or if it is in fact San Mai with the pattern welded over a random core.........

I've put a post in Bernard Levine's Knife Collecting & Identification sub forum as well.
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/yatagan-blade.1947513/
 
Yes. Manipulated wootz.

My crucible steel northern Turkey small ear, hidden tang, non manipulated and not really regarded wootz. Post yours to vikingsword.com, or https://www.facebook.com/groups/iascpost/


mew215b.jpgmew215e.jpgtouch.jpgyataghan 006.jpgyataghan 002.jpg


The grip divider wrapping the tang is horn with the sheet goods (not brass, nor is the bolster). The tang just a half in wide and the blade cross section just a hollow to the edge. I have suggested to folks to not use papers but just sand, soil, loose media. Take it easy on the etching. Get a decent surface cleaning first.

Cheers
GC

yataghan 005.jpg
 
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Um, whut??

Anyway I found an interesting article on wootz, for those interested:
Yes, you can see the ebb and flow of true less manipulated cakes. Wootz forges at a lower temperature and from what gets posted, a bit finicky to work with. Cakes had made their way all the way to Japan.

Like the tv katana video, 'the truth' often comes around as discovery pretty regularly. More info that I will ever get to.

Cheers
GC
 
Ingots. Or if you read that link, some call them buttons.
If you look at my blade, you can see the branches of the trees.
Just as with your blade, if you look beyond the manipulation, you can see the branches and trees of crucible steel (wootz is a crucible steel).

No slant. I'll go back to reading (read the article when it was posted).
 
Too many discussions already read and recycled. Here's one

~~~~~~~~
Posted December 30, 2010
In an article, i found some time ago, there was mentioned that a Dutch ship had loaded 20,000 Wootz cakes in India.
The Dutch in the 17/18th century were prominent traders and had some exclusive rights for business with Japan.
When Wootz was transported from India to Damascus in the year 1000 AC and before, it is logical to suggest that the Japanese should know the existance of the Arabian/Indian swords and Wootz in the 17th and 18th century.
Especially since the Japanese had a very highly appreciated Sword tradition and were conservative in changing from swords to firearms in combat.

I read all that information a decade before that post and discussion.

If you plug wootz cakes japan into a search, you'll see that ;ink and a great many more.
 
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