He's 100% correct, not pretentious. The vast majority merely parrot data from foundry websites, and couldn't differentiate between 416 SS and BG-42. Fit and finish, along with promised(not proven) performance is what sells knives(and everything else, for that matter) today.
154CM vs. S30V vs. VG-10 in the real world....
- Thread starter stevekolt
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He's 100% correct, not pretentious. The vast majority merely parrot data from foundry websites, and couldn't differentiate between 416 SS and BG-42. Fit and finish, along with promised(not proven) performance is what sells knives(and everything else, for that matter) today.
I am planning on buying an Native and a Delica/Endura, even though I have no need for the quality steel. For me, Kershaw 14C28N and good HT AUS-8 never even so much as dull, but I just want to own something in a really good but affordable steel. All I use mine for are opening packages, murdering paper, and lots of stropping. The majority of people who carry knives will never be able to tell the difference between 420HC and ATS-55 (just picked a random high end steel I knew) so long as the person cares for their knives and keeps the edges maintained.
Cold Kill, I understand what you said. After owning a Buck 110 I have high respects for 420HC. AUS-8 is another underrated steel as well. The average Joe won't be able to tell the difference between the various steels, and come to think of it, it may not be a bad thing after all.
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Cut as much nylon rope and fiberglass as I do and you get to notice how many times you need to sharpen your knife in a day. I say this because working with knives is what got me into knives, and I would imagine that needing a good tool is the reason many people are here, so by the nature of that statement some people here work with a knife, I would guess a decent number of us.
If you're the type that needs to sharpen your knife at the end of the day, you will develop favorite steels. If you sharpen your knife once a week, you'll probably still notice a slight difference if you really look for one. Past that and people are just grasping at others opinions, in my opinion
but I'm a terrible knife nut who likes older steels that are easier to sharpen and not run as hard as the modern super steels people around here seem to love.
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It really depends on who does the heat treatment and how hard it gets.
VG-10 is a little chippy at Rc 62, but I suspect any steel would have a bad day with chicken bone. I've made deep repeated cuts into a papaya tree with no evident damage. Same with S30V, but that steel tends to lose its razor edge from opening letters.
154CM seemed a bit chippy at Rc 57-59, but some have claimed that it was simply old and weak steel from heat treatment, which seemed like a pretty big flaw indeed given that I've seen no other knife with that issue.
Never observed rust on any 3. I personally favor VG-10 and Bos heat treated S30V.
VG-10 is a little chippy at Rc 62, but I suspect any steel would have a bad day with chicken bone. I've made deep repeated cuts into a papaya tree with no evident damage. Same with S30V, but that steel tends to lose its razor edge from opening letters.
154CM seemed a bit chippy at Rc 57-59, but some have claimed that it was simply old and weak steel from heat treatment, which seemed like a pretty big flaw indeed given that I've seen no other knife with that issue.
Never observed rust on any 3. I personally favor VG-10 and Bos heat treated S30V.
I totally agree with how S30V loses it's hair-popping razor sharpness quickly, but still stays sharp for very long. However, I find that VG10 does pretty much the same. 154CM is very nice too, but it's probably the same as VG10, but perhaps it holds that razor edge a little bit better. My all time favorite is 1095 or similar carbon steels, as rust is never an issue for me and it's just so easy to get to hair-popping and it holds it's edge well, while still being very durable.
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Not sure how abrasive nylon is, but isn't cutting pure fiberglass even worse than trying to cut a cut resistant glove(which often has glass fibers mixed in)? Wouldn't it be better to use shears or a serrated edge for that?Cut as much nylon rope and fiberglass as I do and you get to notice how many times you need to sharpen your knife in a day. I say this because working with knives is what got me into knives, and I would imagine that needing a good tool is the reason many people are here, so by the nature of that statement some people here work with a knife, I would guess a decent number of us.
If you're the type that needs to sharpen your knife at the end of the day, you will develop favorite steels. If you sharpen your knife once a week, you'll probably still notice a slight difference if you really look for one. Past that and people are just grasping at others opinions, in my opinion
Also not sure which steel property is good for that. I would think wear resistance helps, but a high carbide steel like S90V often chips from nicking metal lightly, whereas you're cutting glass fibers and it's much harder.
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Its not the rope, its the silt in the rope.
As far as the FG goes, shears have their place but they're neither the easiest nor are they the handiest for many things.
I'm looking to try out m4 one of these days, had a zdp189 delica for a while but it was a bit brittle, thats for another thread though.
Yes, it is all personal use. For me, at least, the only quality I really look for in a steel is the edge it can take. Holding it is no real issue, because I strop my knives when they start to just get a little dulled. I also strop all of my edges to (or as close as I can get to) a mirror polished edge. For a light, common-use knife, all you need is moderate edge retention and decent ability to strop, and your knives will be scary sharp all the time.
I was never happy with 420HC. It seemed to dull to quickly and require resharpening more often than I liked. I have used 154cm and VG10 and
can't see much difference in edge retention, but I do find it more difficult to sharpen the knives I have in 154cm. I have a knife in S30V, but haven't used it enough to notice any difference between edge retention for it and VG10/154CM.
My Spyderco Michael Walker seemed to hold an edge much better than my other knives when doing some work with cutting rope and packages. A
minigrip in 154cm didn't hold up nearly as well for this.
can't see much difference in edge retention, but I do find it more difficult to sharpen the knives I have in 154cm. I have a knife in S30V, but haven't used it enough to notice any difference between edge retention for it and VG10/154CM.
My Spyderco Michael Walker seemed to hold an edge much better than my other knives when doing some work with cutting rope and packages. A
minigrip in 154cm didn't hold up nearly as well for this.
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. Well then I stand corrected, I guess people here are tuned into to what most people think, know, do, and are qualified to share their knowledge with the rest of us who don't know most people.
I'd have to agree for the most part.
To be honest I feel that S30V is over hyped. I've said this before but I will take well done 154CM over S30V any day of the week , same goes for VG10 which is easily one of
my favorite steels. I've had various blade steels chip in the past , sharpen it out and move on with your life.... I could never guess know why people get so worked up over
a chip.
Anyways , that's my 2 cents.
Tostig
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Absolutely. I was quite disappointed with 154CM edge holding for a long time, chipping issues included. Then Phil Wilson rehardened my 154CM Nimravus at 62HRC, reground the blade too. Now the knife cuts like a laser, and haven't had a chip since I got it back from Phil. Currently the edge is about 12-14 per side, and I've tested on steel and copper wiring, plastic, rubber, cardboard, etc. Amazing what good HT and proper geometry can do 
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I have had all three. I dont have any trouble sharpening any of them because all my sharpening is done on the sharpmaker I have 320 grit stones for rough stuff. In my experience cutting rope and cardboard zip ties ect. Which I do practically daily at work ( I work at a marina ) For me I had to touch up VG-10 more often if I wanted a paper push cutting edge. 154cm when heat treated well ( Bussekin heat treat for example ) Can be very tough. I went and batoned and beat on some Bussekin 154cm and it could still push cut paper with ease. It seems like for me s30v with a polished edge doesn't seem as bitey. In my personal use CPM154 seems to take a finer stickier edge than s30v with a 15* fine stone finish and hold it longer. The only steels I have had chip on me were 14c28n, VG-10, and SK-5. A test I like to do is plunge the knife into a pledge can to see how the edge holds up 154cm and VG-10 did fine.
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Ever try sharpening a chip out of S110V?
A roll is easy to fix with a few passes on a power strop. A chip will require about 10 minutes on a P80 ceramic belt.
All in all, chips require more metal to be removed, even if it's not some high carbide steel.
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Totally agree with you gents except i don't believe s30v is over-hyped, i just prefer the others for what i do.
I was so confused when i got my first blade in s30v (buck vantage pro) I thought that razor edge it came with was going to last for a very very long time and before i knew it, it wasn't crazy sharp anymore, it was still very sharp mind you, just not what i thought it would be ( I'm not trying to bash the steel at all, i really dont mind it but i was just a bit confused)
I would take vg-10 and 154cm over s30v, but thats not going to stop me buying a spyderco chokwe (cpm-s30v) and i'm sure i would enjoy it very much, I just like the first two better.
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This mirrors my experiences with the three steels. Keep in mind that in this analysis, we are not correcting for blade thickness, profile or heat treatment, so one should expect a great variety of responses. All three will get the job done and all three are fine steels in their own right. If asked to pick a favorite, my response would be 'Number 5, thanks for the chance'.
Ankerson
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Most people haven't seen or delt with the very high wear resistant steels at HIGH HARDNESS so they wouldn't understand.
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If I were a neurotic weirdo, I might comment on how I've noticed tiny chips in the edges of my thinly-ground S30V blades (which I have), or how I've had blades made of VG-10 and 154CM with edges that rolled (which I have).
But, since I'm more of a practical guy, I'll say this:
The differences, practically speaking, and for actual use in the real world, the differences are negligible.
The chips were tiny and didn't affect cutting performance, and they sharpened right out.
The rolled edges happen when the blades come in contact with hard stuff (staples in cardboard, wire, other metal stuff), and also sharpened right out.
Long & short: doesn't really matter.
But, since I'm more of a practical guy, I'll say this:
The differences, practically speaking, and for actual use in the real world, the differences are negligible.
The chips were tiny and didn't affect cutting performance, and they sharpened right out.
The rolled edges happen when the blades come in contact with hard stuff (staples in cardboard, wire, other metal stuff), and also sharpened right out.
Long & short: doesn't really matter.
Soulrack223
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I own multiple knives in all 3 steels. In my experience S30V > 154CM = VG-10. I have better luck with my 154CM knives (Emerson, Hogue) holding an edge than my VG-10 (Spydercos) but I think that's edge geometry. I've had S30V chip out while that has not happened with the other two.