armed sentry removal

I thought that would get your attention. I seem to remember reading an article in Tac Knives mag that showed an Emerson prototype which looked a lot like the Griffe. Ernest explained that this type of blade was designed to quickly sever the trachia (from behind, I imagine), almost all the way back to the spinal column. I have no real question here, just thought that it was, well, interesting. The article said something like these are serious knives for serious people; the faint of heart need not apply. Call me bloodthirsty, but that's pretty cool.
 
ptpalpha

ptpalpha

Joined
Aug 25, 1999
Messages
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tamishigiri (did I get it right?) Thanks for your very informative reply! Kind of makes me 1. want to go ooooooooh........ and 2. want to find one of those knives!!! Seems like just yesterday I was creeping up behind one of those pesky senties, with only my boring old Mark II in hand...

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"I'm tired of going over this. They're INVESTMENTS!"
 
Yeh any big hawk bill that is sharp will bite in and take out the trachea with a draw stroke from behind. But a good thrust to the brainstem will do it even quieter and quicker by the well trained who knows his anatomy.
 
Ptpalpah,

Good luck finding one. According to the copy of the letter that Emerson provided with one of the 4 that I have owned. He only made 5.

Emerson wrote in the letter he had the 5th one.

You should contact him, maybe he wants to sell.

 
I have seen the Emerson sentry removal knife and it is cool. This is a pic of my Microtech Hawk--just as deadly and you can still find one if you don't mind paying big bucks! By the way, I just got my Commander and it kicks butt. The wave feature really works! Very solid knife.

http://homepages.msn.com/HobbyCt/hobbitfang/mt12.JPG


[This message has been edited by jc (edited 26 September 1999).]
 
Patterned after a "specialized" tool for autopsies? What is the name of the surgical tool and what exact procedure is it used for?

Brain stem shot...it will kill instantly. Problem is, when you touch the guy he is going to explode. I think that is why the SEAL's and other SpecOps folks like to go for the throat. Nearly as fast, if not AS fast if done well, and not nearly so risky in the target aquisition department.
 
While you are discussing knife targets from the back of the sentry, I would like to add the Carotid Artery, Bregma, Subclavian Artery, and the Mastoid Process.

 
I much prefer a Kukri chop to the neck.

Cheers,

ts

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"Cet animal est tres mechant;quand on l'attaque il se defend."("This animal is very mischievous: when it is attacked it defends itself")
 
If you take the throat, both carotids, all 4 jugular veins, the trachea and all assorted, vital structures should be severed at once...there are nerves that run parallel with the carotids, outside the carotid sheath I believe (Fenris! Fron and center!) and that would be the Vagus as well as a couple other that escape me at the moment, the throat is a very lethal target indeed and this goes far beyond merely targeting the trachea...all those structures are involved. Very important information to have in this day and age of people shooting up public places... This subject is usually kept hush-hush and whispered about among people interested in edged weapons, but it is a knowledge that you have to possess if you are really into edged weapons defense.
 
It will take a big blade cutting deep to get all of those in one sweep. I doubt there are too many folders out there capable of that feet.
 
coyote,

Are you sure you mean "big blade"? I would think one would need an extremely sharp blade to perform the aforementioned cuts. A 3 inch blade could reach those areas!
 
If the sentry cooperates and holds perfectly still while you slice him 3 inches should be fine I just think that he is going to thrash around and you will need some size. Applegate came up with six inches for a good reason. Of course he also chose the double edge primarily thrusting knife too. I am probably showing a biase here to his experiance and knowledge.
 
Coyote,

The thrust to the base of the skull to sever the spinal cord to reach the spine during sentry removal would require that the target remain perfectly still, also, slipping the knife in between vertebra is something iffy in and of itself...in that a trained surgeon anesthesiologist (sp?) occasionally grazes or hits the vertebra. My brother has had some spinal work done and will be the first to tell you this. Of course, you are not worried about "hurting" the sentry, but if the tip slips off the vertebra, you could get a glancing shot and have a very angry person on your hands...the cut, on the other hand, would be a lot easier in the same scenario. A lot more sure.

Applegate came up with the 6 inch blade idea from a Finnish Fighter who used a Puuko (sp?)to kill Russian Sentries during the winter as the Russians wore a "Great Coat," very thick, and the emphasis on 6 inches of blade was to insure that the blade passed through the coat and damaged the kidney, not the throat.
 
I do stand corrected on the applegate design I remember that now that you mention it that is was due to the heavy russian coats. I do think that a thrust up and under the occiput will enter into the foramen magnum and severe the brainstem quite rapidly. True if you try to go between the posterior elements of the vertebrae you will not be successful. Also while I know my anatomy I have no experiance in this stuff so I recognize that I may be wrong.
 
Coyote,

I would not hesitate in using that particular target if a situation arose that warranted it. Or, pommel striking to that area, following up, etc., I just think that for the quickest kill that is also sure I would choose the neck area. I would probably pick a hooked type edged weapon. If a straight blade was the only thing I had, through the side of the neck and the push it out the front. very fast and sure.

Now if you want to talk about Kukris, hatchets and machetes, that is a whole different story!
 
Some of this anatomical discussion is getting a little far afield from the basic topic: Emerson made 5 Sentry Removal Tools (SRTs) on a trial basis. Each had a cqc8-like handle with a very curved, chisel ground blade that was sharpened on the top and bottom of the curved blade, which tapered to a fine point. Two of the five had serrations added to the top, making them even more effective, and at least two had Black-ti coating. An interesting side feature was he drilled a small hole through the handle near the tip end, into which you could insert a paperclip. Its purpose was to be used as a safety so the blade couldn't open, even partially, during tactical events like parachuting, since the double edged blade was a danger on both sides.
According to Ernie, he gave out a couple for field testing, at least one of which came back in rough shape. They were determined to be too limited in scope to be fielded as a regular issue item by the SEALs, so he never made any more. As to their use, picture the blade with a crescent of very sharp edge facing upward when the knife was held in the fencer position. If the wrist was rotated ninety degrees, you have the pointed,curved blade ready to slice as you pull it towards your body. That, in essence, was the technique they taught at Coronado in the seventies, anyway.
 
Woah...This is one gnarly thread!

Well then...I guess that's about it for me seeing as I have no experience deanimating sentries. This fact would reduce whatever I said on this topic to merely cocktail talk.

The said knife does sound like an awsome collector's piece though. Any owners out there? If so any sellers?

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Never argue with a man that wears a size 5 hat.
 
Tamishigiri,

It sounds like you have a nice collection of Custom Emersons. Do you buy them directly from him or do you get them on the secondary market?
 
The autopsy tool that was most likely the inspiration for the Rhino's profile is none other than the Archcutters Hook, otherwise known as a Red Devil Linoleum Knife. This knife was used to remove the rib cage during autopsies by severing the cartilage. Its modern day replacement is the motorized Stryker Saw which is used to cut straight through bone. Some veteran pathologists still favor the linoleum knife because it leaves smooth cartilage ends instead of the jagged, glove ripping bone ends left in the Stryker Saw's wake.
There is one medical tool supplier which did (does) sell cheap chrome plated versions of the linoleum knife which look more "medical" but the vast majority of pathologists just used a six dollar Red Devil Linoleum Knife.
Incidentally Thomas Harris' now infamous villain Dr. Hannibal Lector used a linoleum knife to gut FBI agent Will Graham the very moment he realized that the good doctor was in fact the killer. Furthermore Hannibal uses a Spyderco Harpy and a Civilian in the latest Harris yarn.

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Never argue with a man that wears a size 5 hat.
 
Nothing better than a Kukri for sentry removal. Just ask any Gurkha. They are the best in the world at it. Classic method is too noisy - someone who just had his throat slit will thrash and gurgle as he lies dying. Too many things can go wrong with the classic approach from behind. That is if you're even able to grab him, hold him, cover his mouth, and cut his throat. The adrenaline rush that he will get when being grabbed from behind, will make yours seem like you're in slow motion. In the struggle you probably will be heard at best, or slice your own hand or arm at worst. Much better to lop off his head, if he's wearing a helmet, or split his skull in two, if not. Using a Kukri, of course. death is instant, and very little noise is heard. Nothing more demoralizing than waking up in the morning to find all your sentries with their heads in their laps.
 
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