Black T

stjames

stjames

Sebenzanista
Joined
Oct 26, 1998
Messages
6,465
Could someone tell me about the properties of the "Black T" coating that REKAT uses? I recently purchased a Pioneer 1, drop point with black t, mostly because I am interested in the lock design, and can find no hard data on the blade coating.

Thanks in advance
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James
 
stjames
Black-T is a trade name and the sole property of W.E. Bidrsong and Asscoicates. Black T is the ONLY subsurface teflon based coating out there. It wont capaliary like standard teflon hardchrome or other surface coats. Black-T is used mainly in firearms and used by the FBI, Seals and other federal LE. On a MP-5 they treat the whole weapon and run them dry, no lube. It's also the most expensive Teflon Based coating. Benchmade used to use Black-T but switched to a surface Teflon. Emerson Knives uses Black-T also. REKAT was the first manfacture to use in in a production knife. We have thousands of Black-T knives out these and NO complaints. W.E. Birdsong is in Florance Mississippi.

Bob Taylor

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Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints and escaping.
 
Bob, thank you for the information. I look forward to recieving my first, albeit used, REKAT. I doubt that it will be my last. (still have my eye on a Carnivour and I will need a version of the new lock
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James
 
Bob -- you might want to check out Metacol III as an alternative to Black T. Here's the site www.arizonaresponsesystems.com . Heckler & Koch USA and Gunsite avail of this service.

[This message has been edited by Titan (edited 02 May 1999).]
 
METACOL I is a traditional hot bluing - a decorative finish with moderate protective qualities (meets Mil Spec C13924BAM1-1-A).
stjames
Thanks for the heads up the paste below is off their site. Black-T is rated at over 4,000 hours in an accelerated salt spray test 15% as opposed to 5% salt at higher hunidity. While it is expensive it's the best we have seen or used.
Chemicals react with the carbon in steel and oxidize it (controlled rusting), leaving a deep, rich blue-black color. The depth and luster of the finished product depends on the degree of polishing. METACOL I resists the salt-spray test for approximately 100 hours. We do all polishing by hand to keep engraving and edges sharp.


Bob Taylor



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Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints and escaping.
 
Bob -- how about Metacol III? Here's a description from the site itself:

METACOL III

METACOL III is the best firearm coating available and has made all other coatings
obsolete. METACOL III is a bonded, solid-film lubricant. Unlike paint, it will never
chip, peel, bubble, or crack and is thin enough (.0003" to .0005") to coat the most
delicate internal components. When cured, it chemically bonds at the molecular level
with the base metal. It is unbelievably tough (the toughest black finish available),
impervious to rust, and self-lubricating. It is the ideal coating for modern weapons
and can be applied to carbon steel, stainless steel, aluminum, titanium, brass, "pot
metal," and some high-temperature plastics (like HK collapsible stocks).
METACOL III is available in four standard colors - flat black, HK-style satin black
(most popular), Colt-style dark gray, classic patina - a gray/green/brown; four
special colors - NATO green, desert tan, earth brown, and matte silver; and two
camouflage patterns - four-color woodland and three-color desert.
Click to expand...

[This message has been edited by Titan (edited 02 May 1999).]
 
I forwarded this message to Mark Graham of ARS, and here's his reply:

thanks for the info. I avoid any of the teflon/ptfe coatings because they are so damn soft. Can't count the number of "black T" guns I've redone. I am really suspicious of walter's 4000 hour claim. Salt spray is kindof a bull**** test anyway, but because it has been a standard of comparison for so many years, its still used and everyone seems to
demand to know its rating - it would be great if all your guns did was sit in an ccelerated marine atmosphere chamber. But they don't - they get drawn, fired, abraded, dropped, banged about, etc. Wonder how it does in a scab test - what about a taber abrasion test? Coating effacy is a compromise between coating thickness (tolerance interference)
abrasion/impact resistance, and corrosion resistance. I have some Polane based coatings that kick ass over Metacol, Black T, or anything else for corrosion resistance - but they are so thick you can only use them on
externals or you compromise function. I have been happier with the molybdneum disulfide based coatings than the ptfe. I'm not married to anything in particular - want only the "best."

Titan wrote:
>
> I thought you might be interested in reading this web page: http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum22/HTML/000033.html

--
T. Mark Graham
gunplumber@arizonaresponsesystems.com
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com

-----

Arizona Response Systems
Products and Services for the Armed Professional
5501 North 7th Avenue, Suite 1005
Phoenix, Arizona 85013-1755
602-873-1410
Click to expand...

I sure would like to know your thoughts, Bob.



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"It is better to understand a little than to misunderstand a lot." -- Anonymous


 
Titan
I can only speak from experance I think Mark Graham of ARS should call Walter if he belives it's BS. I have seen the certfied spec's Vickers Corp also has a spec on Black-T also. Why is it then the the Navy Spec and FBI all use Black-T insted of his coating. Our experance has been this.
1. We have sand blasted the boating off of 1/2 a blade and buffed off the black on the other side. Two weeks in a ocean enviorment letting the tides wet and dry the Hobbit (1095 High Carbon) The only portion rusted was the blasted side.
2. We have thousands of knives Black-T finished and only one returned to Walter from us unsatisfactory finish. One customer requesting a refinish a Deputy Sheriff (in Flordia). He then admitted that he has abused his Hobbit Warrior cutting locks out of doors and other fun activties not recomended for any knife. The Black was scratched (also a 1095) but no rust.
Will Black-T wear sure it will. We have never said it wont. Kydex is very unforgiving but yet with the amount of Blades we have out there as well as Emerson Knives and until 1996 Benchmade Knives the finish must be doing somthing right.
I will check into the coating you mentioned as we are not closed minded, We recently got some samples of the latest wazoo Titanium somthing or other coating and are testing that also. We are always looking into manfacturing process and diffrent materials. Right now we are working with Talonite for example. Why?
Because it just might be the ticket for a number of projects. Ken Onion has another expermental Cobolt/Titanium CPM wonder blade metal that shows promise, but at $500.00 a pound we will experment with Talonite for now

Bob Taylor


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Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints and escaping.
 
Bob -- I really think Black T is a great finish. All I wanted is to show you that there might be something better out there. ARS's Metacol III is an already proven superior gun finish for online gun nuts, and I just wanted us online knife nuts to see if this finish will also give our knives a new and better alternative.

I'm glad to know that you'd check out Metacol. You and Mark Graham have a lot in common -- no BS guys who give us buyers only the best, IMHO.

I'll forward this again to Mark and invite him to join and post.

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"It is better to understand a little than to misunderstand a lot." -- Anonymous


 
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