Blade Magazine 2012 Overall Knife Of The Year®: ZT 0888 by ZT Knives (added 4 pics).

Think I’ve gone over this in previous threads, but feel it needs to be shared again here.

Today, Kai USA is a volume manufacturer, and have been for over a decade. A few years back we started a new brand called Zero Tolerance. ZT is still quite young in its existence. ZT is different from Kershaw as it relies heavily on premium materials, skilled labor, extended machine times, and more complicated patterns. Kai USA is now faced with the balance of producing Kershaw in volume, along with building the specialized ZT products.
Currently the factory is finding its bearings with this complicated matrix. From the outside it must feel like “just make em already”, I understand. What I’m relaying to you here is that it’s just not that easy. With capacity ceilings being reached with everyday SKU’s, there is only so much production that can be finished/added in a given month/year.

Like with most every other quality manufacturer we make boutique runs. Not sure why it’s a problem here. It’s the first time I can recall folks concerned about a manufacturer producing a small batch of knives (if 500 pieces is considered small).

These ZT boutique runs are an opportunity for us to share with you our unique designs and capabilities. We're trying to establish the ZT brand in the marketplace by producing pieces that bring us all to the "next level" in the production arena. I believe we have accomplished this goal. These projects were never thought of as regular production, nor could we produce in volume enough for them to be a cataloged item. Tomorrow perhaps we will be in a better place to produce more than we do today, but this is where we are currently.
Again, I’m unsure why it’s a bad decision that we as an organization take baby steps to explore production avenues rarely seen in the hopes of one day being able to offer similar premium designs that are more widely available.
It's extremely difficult to do these projects with dealer and distributor programs attached. Sometimes it helps understand if you look bigger picture, see past street price, and truly visualize what is really happening here. To me, we’re setting precedent that is ultimately a strong pace for the industry. The accolades from our peers confirms this. It also assists in propelling and leading towards the next generation of folders that all aspects of the industry benefit from.

The 0888 is an incredible knife that we're are quite proud to offer to our valued customers.
 
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Man, if the 0888 was being made by Lockheed Martin for the defense department this would cost the government 27,750 per knife, with a $5,000 training program for 10 instructor level students and no warranty implied.

Thomas, you are marketing to the wrong folks. :)

Maxmet! Are you guys kidding? You expect these to be turned out in runs for guys like us? These are what they need for the Mars mission in 30 years. So they should tell the government purchasers anyways.

After making a couple of "knife like objects" earlier in my life, and buying and selling a whole truckload I'll say you won't find custom makers that would touch anything remotely like this knife for 5 times the price. Too much work involved with this stuff. This is a "look at what we can do" project. Expecting them by the thousands isn't realistic. This is a project that could bury a company.

Thomas, I don't know what possessed you to go this far this time. You are 10-20 years too early with the 0888. No offense meant.


Joe
 
Well, I didn't plan on starting an avalanche, so I apologize if it has turned into one. I for one, found it highly informative to hear from Thomas regarding the perspective these "Showcase" knives are viewed in from a manufacturing standpoint. It's a testbed, a product that allows the company to stretch its design and manufacturing muscles to their limits. Ok, that makes sense, I can relate, almost. I used to work R&D for a Very American 2 wheeled transportation manufacturer. I was a "machine operator" for this company and I was privy to some hardware that never saw the light of day as they were really just test mules to prove a concept. Now the difference here is that these machines really were unobtanium. They were never public knowledge and all except for a handfull were destroyed, the remainder going into company archives or deeply into "special" collectors inventories. These products were manufactured at a total loss. Simply concept. We did occasionally manufacture some special runs, but they were not terribly differentiated from the normal product lines.

I applaud Kershaw for maintaining a competitive edge in the market by allowing projects like these. I'm sure the stockholders are more concerned with the bottom line but my exposure to the big machine would suggest that design and accounting are often working at cross purposes, or at the very least focused on two entirely different goals. I imagine your engineers and machinists are quite thrilled by the challenge and no doubt this gives them some much needed inspiration. If the objective of these "Boutique" runs is to show off some capability and the limiting factor is the resources consumed by a project of this type impede normal production then it makes sense to me. Thanks for taking the time to help me understand Kershaw's philosophy regarding this type of knife.

However, this still leaves us with the problem of inequitable distribution. I made mention of a more equitable process in a post some time last year that I would love to see in regards to these limited runs. I would like to see a lottery of sorts for half of the production volume where all interested parties would submit their contact info and if say...1000 knives were produced, 500 names would be randomly chosen by a computer, notifications would be sent and 500 opportunities to purchase a knife of a lifetime would be had by many who typically never get the chance. Of course the other 500 units in this example would go through normal distribution channels. I'm sure this idea would not be popular in certain circles and may even violate the legality of your dealer/distribution agreements, still, I'm just sayin....

-Loco
 
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locomoconomo said:
I would like to see a lottery of sorts for half of the production volume where all interested parties would submit their contact info and if say...1000 knives were produced, 500 names would be randomly chosen by a computer, notifications would be sent and 500 opportunities to purchase a knife of a lifetime would be had by many who typically never get the chance. -Loco
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I like this idea. Making available part of a LE run for the interested massed that are not "connected" so to speak, would sort of charitable to many.
 
I take pictures like the ones in this thread and share them here because I like to look at these knives and hopefully share what I see in them. I know that very few people will get to see one of these knives in person, much less handle it or spend any length of time with it. For some people, seeing these photos will be enough to push them to decide that they absolutely need to get one. I don't think there are any dealers that know that they will be getting any of these knives, everyone has an equal chance to get one. Production is a long way off, so there is quite a bit of time to build a good relationship with as many of your favorite dealers as possible.

I understand the frustration with the very limited availability of some of these knives. I still regret not getting a Volt. I honestly didn't try hard enough to get one, I even found one locally, but couldn't get myself to pay the full msrp. I still appreciate the fact that Kershaw made it though.

Even if we can't own one of these boutique run knives, we as end-users benefit from every one of them. Kershaw and ZT get to evaluate new materials, technologies, and techniques to see if they are worth utilizing in regular production. We see technology in affordable knives like composite blades thanks to boutique runs. The KVT bearings in the 560/561 can thank the Tilt. There are many other examples that trickle down, or just as importantly don't, because they were found to be too impractical, time consuming or expensive. I appreciate every new knife Kai produces whether I can get my hands on one or not; overall, I think they are helping change the face of the industry for the better.

In any case, I hope everyone enjoys the photos.
 
kneedeep said:
Wait 'till you get one in your hands. Very difficult to give it back.
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I doubt i'll ever hold one.... it seems like it would be like buying a Bentley.

When you get one, make sure to send it to my way in Canada to try it out! :D :p
 
Of course, the counterargument is why are you going to cut your loyal "connected" customers out of the loop. I don't advocate going all Ferrari, but shouldn't loyalty be rewarded?
2 shot said:
I like this idea. Making available part of a LE run for the interested massed that are not "connected" so to speak, would sort of charitable to many.
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I have never seen a knife so perfect in looks and knowing its a ZT (Knives built tough)its like a hot muscle car man:cool:

THIS KNIFE I WILL OWN,,So where do i sign up????:confused:??????
 
jdm61 said:
Of course, the counterargument is why are you going to cut your loyal "connected" customers out of the loop. I don't advocate going all Ferrari, but shouldn't loyalty be rewarded?
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...I see your point, but why should ALL of the specialty run knives be only for the Well heeled/connected buyers. I consider myself a loyal Kershaw customer even though I may only buy 1 or 2 knives a year. In the example I gave, the numbers were arbitrary. The actual breakdown would need to be determined by those who are concerned with balancing the interests of all concerned. I personally see a 50/50 deal as ideal, lots of deals there huh? But, more to the point, if we're talking about taking care of benefactors, then I'm pretty sure that those folks are already known to Thomas or others within the organization and are already taken care of in ways you and I will never be privy. Even if Kershaw did go for something like this, and I'm not sure they even could legally, there are as many ways to customize such a program to take care of the various interests as need be. The neat thing with a lottery to determine a slot to purchase a knife like this, is that those with connections can participate as well.

-Loco
 
its a good time to be a knife collector. ZT is bringing it way beyond the highest expectations with these recent knife designs. Thank you!!!!!
 
Thomas W said:
How are you figuring the 0888 is only going to well connected buyers. Everyone has a shot from what I can see...
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Come on Thomas, are you saying that it's not true? Not to be a smartass, but I've watched these boards enough to see that it is. From the rather mysterious process of determining "Where" the knives will be shipped, to getting on a pre-order, not knowing if you were early enough to make the allocation for a given dealer, deciding if you need to get on multiple pre-orders etc... Now let's look at the other side of the coin, You have a customer who buys enough knives of this type to warrant a pre-emptive call, yes, I'll take # many, boom badah bing, done deal. I personally have witnessed several instances in this board where people have been in the position to hoard a particularly desirable knife while others were looking desperately for one. I've even seen a situation where a knife was given to someone very charitably and then saw the same model of knife, maybe same knife, cross the board for sale???

I may not know the intricacies of the knife industry but I do understand human nature and I know my idea would provide a rather more dispersed opportunity for ownership of these limited runs. No hard feeling if you don't like the idea or disagree with my take on the market. I still love Kershaw knives and will continue to buy them, limited run or not.
 
locomoconomo, you do realize of course that even if it were practical for Kershaw/ZT to do what you ask, there would still be the same accusations. Plus, they would alienate their distributors and dealers. Having spent a pretty fair amount of time dealing with retail, I can tell you that dealers do not appreciate a brand suddenly selling a product they can't get, directly to end users.

I don't disagree with you that it would be nice if there were a way to guarantee equitable distribution using an end user direct lottery system, but I doubt it would be practical for Kai from a time and resources standpoint.

Also, you might be surprised how far a nice email can get you with your favorite dealer to let them know you will be interested when they open pre-orders for a hard to get knife.
I've actually had cases where I found out about a knife before the dealer did and my email got them looking into it early on.
 
A lot has been said, and I would probably add my .2 cents as well. But before that happens, can I ask a mod to have the comments re: the limited availability debate to another, perhaps new thread if necessary? It seems the ZT 888 kind of "broke the camels back" sort to speak with regards to having a limited run of knives for some folks, but I can't help but feel that we have sort of disrespected Glenn's contribution to the forums with these high quality pictures, and sort of wish that this thread was kept for that, original purpose.
 
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Thomas W said:
How are you figuring the 0888 is only going to well connected buyers. Everyone has a shot from what I can see...
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I agree. There are certain dealers that I would bet on receiving an allotment of the 888. Beyond that, I don't have any idea what the big deal is. If someone wants to get this knife, and is excited about it enough THIS early to be raising this sort of fuss, then he needs to get to know a few dealers, put the word out to them that he is ready and eager to buy, whatever the price, and get over it. Life is too short to go around raising baseless accusations and worrying so much about how the system works.
 
locomoconomo said:
From the rather mysterious process of determining "Where" the knives will be shipped...
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I'm unsure of the mysterious process you're talking about.
to getting on a pre-order, not knowing if you were early enough to make the allocation for a given dealer, deciding if you need to get on multiple pre-orders etc...
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We have no influence on how a dealer allocates their shipments. I most cases we cap the amount a given dealer/distributor can order.

Now let's look at the other side of the coin, You have a customer who buys enough knives of this type to warrant a pre-emptive call, yes, I'll take # many, boom badah bing, done deal. I personally have witnessed several instances in this board where people have been in the position to hoard a particularly desirable knife while others were looking desperately for one. I've even seen a situation where a knife was given to someone very charitably and then saw the same model of knife, maybe same knife, cross the board for sale???
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Again, we don't dictate to the dealers who to ship knives to.

I'm not sure this assists in understanding that there is no conspiracy on boutique runs, but I'm not sure what else there is to say.
 
locomoconomo said:
Come on Thomas, are you saying that it's not true? Not to be a smartass, but I've watched these boards enough to see that it is. From the rather mysterious process of determining "Where" the knives will be shipped, to getting on a pre-order, not knowing if you were early enough to make the allocation for a given dealer, deciding if you need to get on multiple pre-orders etc... Now let's look at the other side of the coin, You have a customer who buys enough knives of this type to warrant a pre-emptive call, yes, I'll take # many, boom badah bing, done deal. I personally have witnessed several instances in this board where people have been in the position to hoard a particularly desirable knife while others were looking desperately for one. I've even seen a situation where a knife was given to someone very charitably and then saw the same model of knife, maybe same knife, cross the board for sale???

I may not know the intricacies of the knife industry but I do understand human nature and I know my idea would provide a rather more dispersed opportunity for ownership of these limited runs. No hard feeling if you don't like the idea or disagree with my take on the market. I still love Kershaw knives and will continue to buy them, limited run or not.
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Kershaw's plan for distribution of the 0888, could not be more fair, in my opinion. They have a great dealer base in place and they have to try and keep everyone as happy as they can. Hopefully the majority of the dealers operate the same way. My preorder lists are first come first served basis and I don't play the game of giving anyone priority, or bumping someone so that Joe or Fred can get a knife. Are you on a list ? At this time you should be on several lists to insure that you will get one, at least that is what I would do. Kershaw is doing their job and I know for a fact , that they are being as fair and equitable as they can and still be able to run a business.
 
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