Buying husband a kitchen knife, could use some help with quality assessment~

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aqueousflame

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Jul 16, 2013
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Hello BladeForums folks. I am trusting you with helping me to decide on which kitchen knife to purchase!

We're a young couple and we are just starting to upgrade our kitchen by one thing at a time. Our old santoku's handle broke, so I'm using this as a chance to get another present for hubby's birthday.

I want to know what you guys think about the type of steel used in different brands of professional kitchen knives such as Wusthof, Shun, etc. as well as any personal experiences you've had. Most of them say "high-carbon steel". Both our hands are not big, so the handle is also important. He has a strop and that black abrasive stuff rubbed on it (forgot what it was called) so sharpening isn't an issue, but it would be nice if the blade kept its edge for as long as possible.

I'm looking for one that's under $150, but if nothing seems to be sufficient I will just let him find a more expensive custom knife on here at a later date. I'm not the breadwinner sadly :sorrow:

Thank you so much for reading/answering!
 
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With that budget you could get a Richmond Artifex Gyoto in M390, a really spectacular cutlery steel. It doesn't have the looks of some other high dollar kitchen knives, but it's a joy to use.
 
An 8" Shun chefs knife in VG-10 can be found in your price range if you know where to look. The handle looks good for small hands. I love shun kitchen knives.
 
Check the "For sale: kitchen knife forum" here for some handmade knives in your price range.
 
If you and your husband are both right handed I would suggest a Shun, all of them I have used and seen have handles shaped for right hand use. I've had mine for a couple of years and have been extremely happy with them.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
With that budget you could get a Richmond Artifex Gyoto in M390, a really spectacular cutlery steel. It doesn't have the looks of some other high dollar kitchen knives, but it's a joy to use.
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I second this :thumbup: and perhaps also buy a dia-fold (E/EE) to keep this high alloy/tech/modern knife sharp.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
With that budget you could get a Richmond Artifex Gyoto in M390, a really spectacular cutlery steel. It doesn't have the looks of some other high dollar kitchen knives, but it's a joy to use.
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I second this. I have the wood-handled version(little more expensive at $210), but the standard version($120) with micarta handles is no-nonsense and low maintenance.

Though I'm not entirely sure a black emery loaded strop would be enough to "sharpen" M390 steel. My experience was that the stuff was coarse, but soft. Still, it should be no problem if you have a mousepad and some sandpaper. Just an FYI that better edge holding often equals more difficult sharpening.
 
Go with something simple that will perform. You don't need some fancy survivalist steel, stick with what is a simple yet effective cutting tool. My recommendation for people who are interested in buying a quality piece of kitchen cutlery with a budget ~130-150 is a Misono 440 Gyuto (Chef's Knife). They are stainless so you don't have to worry about rust/keeping it dry. They are also easy to sharpen so if you or your husband decide to learn the art, it won't be very difficult to start. The knife is very thin, which means even when it gets dull it will still feel very sharp compared to thicker knives (Richmond Artifex).

Also, Korin has a 15% off summer sale going on now through the 31st, I highly recommend it. What I would get if I was you is a 8.2" Misono 440 Gyuto with a right-handed grind. They are brand new $132 and that is not including the 15% off. I bought a set of these for my best friend as a wedding present and he and his wife absolutely love them. I sharpen them 4 times a year and they are very nice on the stones. All around a great performing knife.

http://korin.com/Misono-440-Molybdenum-Gyutou_2?sc=27&category=280074
 
stereo.pete said:
Go with something simple that will perform. You don't need some fancy survivalist steel, stick with what is a simple yet effective cutting tool. My recommendation for people who are interested in buying a quality piece of kitchen cutlery with a budget ~130-150 is a Misono 440 Gyuto (Chef's Knife). They are stainless so you don't have to worry about rust/keeping it dry. They are also easy to sharpen so if you or your husband decide to learn the art, it won't be very difficult to start. The knife is very thin, which means even when it gets dull it will still feel very sharp compared to thicker knives (Richmond Artifex).

Also, Korin has a 15% off summer sale going on now through the 31st, I highly recommend it. What I would get if I was you is a 8.2" Misono 440 Gyuto with a right-handed grind. They are brand new $132 and that is not including the 15% off. I bought a set of these for my best friend as a wedding present and he and his wife absolutely love them. I sharpen them 4 times a year and they are very nice on the stones. All around a great performing knife.

http://korin.com/Misono-440-Molybdenum-Gyutou_2?sc=27&category=280074
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"Need"? Probably not. As surprising as it might sound, typical no-name steels can go about a month or so without resharpening in home use. Though with professional cooking or perhaps you cook every meal you eat and never eat out, the extra edge retention might be noticeable.

The Artifex is "thicker" in relative terms, but we'd really need specific numbers in order to compare. It's still thinner than most of my pocket knives and can slice through a large apple much easier than them. As for ease of sharpening, I mentioned that the old mouse pad and sandpaper method would be sufficient. For wear resistant steels, it's often enough to simply use a lower grit like 60 or so to raise a burr. It only takes longer to sharpen if you use the exact same method to sharpen it.

The steel type sounds a bit vague as well with "Molybdenum Stain Resistant Steel". Not sure if the name of the knife is related, because I can't recall 440C having molybdenum.

Still, I'd say even the AEB-L Artifex would be superior. If we assume it's 440C for the Misono at Rc 58-59, it should have more carbides in a softer matrix. It often seems to be the case that high carbide steels provide little additional benefits on top of being difficult to sharpen if you run them soft, hence why most people prefer steels like S90V and S110V to be on the hard side.
 
i'm with stereo.pete on this.

the sale is worth it.

all this steel talk doesn't mean anything if your heat treat is better, meaning, if you know your steel it will out class any "superior steel" with crap heat treat by a good margin.

the japanese have an edge in this matter.
 
franzb69 said:
i'm with stereo.pete on this.

the sale is worth it.

all this steel talk doesn't mean anything if your heat treat is better, meaning, if you know your steel it will out class any "superior steel" with crap heat treat by a good margin.

the japanese have an edge in this matter.
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That's predicated on the assumption that:
1) All japanese heat treats are superior to their western counterparts.
2) Richmond uses crap heat treat.
 
if mass production heat treat is in question then, i'd pretty much pick japanese mass production heat treating every time.

and i never said that mark's knives have crap heat treat, i was just pointing out an example of two extremes. since mark employs different companies from different countries for his own line of knives it doesn't apply to all of his knives.


here's a nice example of an m390 artifex that got pretty messed up, also a member on here.

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the problem here wasn't heat treat but a problem still. it's one of the biggest reasons why i've shied away from getting knives done by lamson.

i don't know if it's QC from lamson or the QC from mark's end that they'd even let a knife get out with this sort of problem.

http://www.chefknivestogoforum.com/snapped-m390-artifex-t2018.html
 
franzb69 said:
if mass production heat treat is in question then, i'd pretty much pick japanese mass production heat treating every time.

and i never said that mark's knives have crap heat treat, i was just pointing out an example of two extremes. since mark employs different companies from different countries for his own line of knives it doesn't apply to all of his knives.


here's a nice example of an m390 artifex that got pretty messed up, also a member on here.

photo_zps6419b4af.jpg


photo_zpsdeab03c3.jpg


photo_zps46c86462.jpg


the problem here wasn't heat treat but a problem still. it's one of the biggest reasons why i've shied away from getting knives done by lamson.

i don't know if it's QC from lamson or the QC from mark's end that they'd even let a knife get out with this sort of problem.

http://www.chefknivestogoforum.com/snapped-m390-artifex-t2018.html
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Or if that was a problem with the steel purchased and used prior to HT as you'll find within the CKTG thread itself. Plus it sounds like a freak occurrence, probably the only one known, and Mark seemed willing to replace it even considering what the user was attempting to do with it(thinning it out on a belt sander).
 
Wow, great replies. Thank you so much to all of you that took the time to respond and discuss.

I have heard that the heat treatment is a very important factor in the knife aside from the steel. However, it doesn't matter so much because kitchen duties are not chopping wood and whatnot :)

It sounds like the general consensus is Richmond Artifex or Misono 440. Both are in the price range I wanted so I'll have to ponder the decision, but maybe I'll just ask him which he'd like more considering the factors you all have given me~ much appreciated!
 
aqueousflame said:
Wow, great replies. Thank you so much to all of you that took the time to respond and discuss.

I have heard that the heat treatment is a very important factor in the knife aside from the steel. However, it doesn't matter so much because kitchen duties are not chopping wood and whatnot :)

It sounds like the general consensus is Richmond Artifex or Misono 440. Both are in the price range I wanted so I'll have to ponder the decision, but maybe I'll just ask him which he'd like more considering the factors you all have given me~ much appreciated!
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That would probably be best, as we don't know what he'll be using it for.

Heat treatment is important to be sure, but the only steel I can recall that was heat treated well enough to outperform several newer generation steels is Bob Dozier's D2. To my knowledge, I've never encountered M390 that was heat treated bad enough to underperform a lot of the steels on the market, or even heard of such a thing occurring.

One more suggestion would be to contact both dealers and ask them about their return policies/warranty if you feel the knife isn't up to snuff or is defective. Might also want to ask Mark Richmond about who does his heat treatment for the M390 Artifex. I believe it was Peter's Heat Treat, but I'm not 100% sure of that. Peter's Heat Treat is well known for their quality and consistent heat treatment and come highly recommended here. I believe I sent them a piece of M390 for heat treatment for a custom knife I had ordered and it turned out great.
 
A young couple just starting out shouldn't have to be concerned with worrying about different steel treating methods when mostly they'll only be chopping veggies, cutting meat, etc. I've been using Wusthof professionally for 30 years, no problem, available everywhere. No need to overspend for status' sake.
 
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ChefRichie said:
A young couple just starting out shouldn't have to be concerned with worrying about different steel treating methods when mostly they'll only be chopping veggies, cutting meat, etc. I've been using Wusthof professionally for 30 years, no problem, available everywhere. No need to overspend for status' sake.
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Wusthof Classic 8" Chef Knife - $99.95
Richmond M390 Artifex 210mm Gyuto - $119.95

Heck, I'd shell out an extra $20 for a unique piece you can't get anywhere else. If the argument is not to overspend, I believe the AEB-L Artifex would encapsulate that point at $74.95
 
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