Calling all Chefs, calling all Chefs

Mack

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I love to cook but other than knowing what I like and cooking it to my tastes, I really don't know what I am doing.
Could you please explain what you use different knives for? Pictures would be appreciated.
What are the different chefs knives for. Why is a butcher knife shaped the way it is? In what way is a Santuko better than a standard "Chefs Knife".
Educate me please.
 
Knives Cook Love by Sarah Jay, Andrews McMeel Publishing, Forwarded by Em:thumbup:eril Lagasse. This book is all about knives you need for cooking. It is the best authority ever on the subject,
 
Thanks, I will have to get that.
 
What are the different chefs knives for. Why is a butcher knife shaped the way it is? In what way is a Santuko better than a standard "Chefs Knife".
Educate me please.

Let's start with some common language. When I hear "chef's knife," I think of what is traditionally called a french knife.
chef-knife-parts.jpg

These come in various sizes. I have a 6", an 8" and a 9 1/2". This style is probably "the one knife" that a classicly trained American chef (Culinary Institute, Cordon Bleu, Johnson and Wales, etc.) would choose. This is the work horse, The knife that gets reached for most often because of it's versatility. But, as they say, a craftsman is only as good as his tools(extrapolated from "a poor crafstman blames his tools." Sorry, my dad is a carpenter.:eek:). So, as so often happens on Bladeforums.com, it is found that several knives are necessary. The next knife our chef would choose would be a slicer. A long, thin(grind and height) knife that excells at making thin slices of large cuts of meat.
Next would come the steel and the other knives most often seen in knife block sets that are named after thier function -- boner, parer, cleaver, bread knife, butcher knife:
butcher-main_full.jpg

This is what I think of when I hear "butcher knife", anyway. I don't own one, but I speculate that it is a combination of a slicer(from the length) and a skinner(from the belly), with enough stiffnes to serve as a boner to be used for processing meat into it's particular cuts -- something that is becoming a lost art known only to those in the meat cutters union, cooking school, or the self-reliant hunter. Seriously, ask your old lady if she can bone a chicken. After she's done beating your ass, ask your grandma the same thing and I'm sure she'll say yes.

One needs only to visit the kitchenware section of a large department store or a Williams Sonoma to see a full line of cutlery. There is a specialized blade for every specific type of cut. For example, you can find sets of three paring knives, all of the same length: regular, sheepsfoot, and tourne', or bird's beak(like a karambit). One may be sufficient, but each has it's own niche.
As for "what makes a Santoku better than a chef's knife?", you have to first look at the introduction of the santoku to our western cuisine, thanks mainly to Rachel Ray for popularizing it. The santoku has a seldom noticed advantage. The high height of the blade allows the ham-fisted user to chop and whack at things without thier (hairy) knuckles hitting the board. It also gives another 1/2" or so of blade to be used as a scoop/scraper for transfering the food to the bowl or pan.
This concept was not new to western cuisine, the offset handle has been around in commercial cutlery for at least as long as I've been looking at the catalogs. Shun used this for thier "Alton's Angles" line, which was the Shun Classic line with an offset handle.
27956.BF10AFAB.jpg

Japanese style knives don't fit into the paradigm of western cutlery, but they are useful none the less. There are some drool worthy examples of japanese-style blades just in this cooking forum. Butch is making some of the nicest knives I've ever seen, and I can't wait to buy one.
I always solved the knuckle problem by moving closer to the edge of the board. And that brings me to my last point -- You're only going to know which knives work best for you by using them. I reach most often for the 4" parer or the 6" chef (which I consider to be more of a utility knife), even though it would be more manly to use my biggest knife. When it comes to slicing bread, which I am doing more often thanks to the recent gift of a bread machine(that'll be another thread), there is only one knife that gets used -- you guessed it, the bread knife, 'cause it's serrated(and crazy sharp).
So cut away, my culinarily inquisitive friend, and you'll find what patterns work best for you.
 
Fantastic answer. Thank you very much.
I love learning things.
 
none too sharp thanks for the thumbs up

i tink that more the tallk over santuko over chef is more jsut east vs west
it is changing somewhat but for the most part the westeren style blades are thicker and softer HT and more hard use in the kitchen/ "pro" kitchen
while the JP. blades are thinner lighter and harder thus taking a better edge and holding it longer

also so far as a steel on the softer blades yes on the harder JP. blades no (ask dave about the glass rod )

i think that in my kit (that used to be hinkels) when i can get a chance to make it
10-12 inch slicer of some sort
9" guyto (read as JP style chef but a hair heaver)
6-7" nikiri (veg knife )
6 inch tall petty
and 3 inch parer

now in that line up the santuko (mutli use knife) would replace and do ok at the work of the 9 inch guyto 6-7 inch veg knife and the 6 inch petty. while it will not doo bettter any one job over the single knife it will do just fine for more users
that said why woudl any of us want less knives :)
 
As someone with a fairly large, eclectic collection of working knives, I suggest
a simpler approach to looking at them.

To start with you need two knives: a big one and a little one. Note I said "to
start with".

The little knife is basically a paring knife of some sort. The shape is whatever
you prefer. If I had to pick just one of our current commercial paring knives,
I'd take the Shun. Once I make myself one or two shaped roughly like our
basic Wusthof parer was before it was all worn down, I might prefer that.

The big knife has two main considerations:

1. How big a knife are you comfortable with? IMHO, one of the
main reasons that santokus are so popular these days is that a lot of
people who aren't comfortable using a chefs knife are comfortable with
a smaller santoku. I suspect that one reason I now use a chefs knife as
my main large knife is because I'm more comfortable with the roughly 8"
one I made myself as opposed to the 10" Mundial I had before (it also
helps that mine is lighter and sharper).

2. What style have you learned with? Or, failing that, what style appeals
most to you. All three of:

* European Chef's Knife (there are subtle differences between German,
French and similar Japanese knives),
* Chinese "cleaver", and
* Santoku

Have literally millions of skilled users world wide. Each style has
advantages and you can become a very good cook with any of
them. If you're planning to be professional cook I assume that
the type of place you work will be a major influence as well.

Now learn to use these two knives effectively. As you do, you will become
aware of what they don't do as well as they might for you. Then select
a knife that does that well. Rinse and repeat... You'll wind up with a set
of knives that work well for you because you actually know how to use
them. Note that "you" above may well be plural (my wife and I both cook)
and you may not have the same preferences.

Of course, all of this is good advice unless you happen to like to collect
knives...
 
Dan, you mentioned a Mundial chef's knife. I have heard good and bad about them. I recently found an old one. It's an 8in chef's knife with wood handles similar to Old Hickory handles. I love this blade but I can't find any info on their old knives. Do you have any info?
 
Not a lot. I got my two something like 15 years ago. They look a lot like German knives and were sold as "made in Brazil but the company is headed by an ex-Wusthof executive". IMHO, Wusthof makes much better knives.

I don't use either of the Mundials any more. Don't know off hand if they're lying around some where or I gave them away.
 
I love to cook but other than knowing what I like and cooking it to my tastes, I really don't know what I am doing.
Could you please explain what you use different knives for? Pictures would be appreciated.
What are the different chefs knives for. Why is a butcher knife shaped the way it is? In what way is a Santuko better than a standard "Chefs Knife".
Educate me please.

This is great reference material

http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/809833/
 
My son is a professional Chef, I have tried to learn what I can from him. I can't afford his tastes in kitchen knives but being a life long user of tools, I know why folks want the best. The job goes better with good tools no matter what your trade. Happy to see this forum.
 
Some great information here. Thanks gentlemen.
 
Good info here, and to the OP: once you've had your fill of information: practice, practice, practice.

Re: styles, try a few different styles. I grew up with Italian influences using Euro style knives, but I would take a global or chroma nakiri and a spear point paring knife over euros any day. But it's just my preference based on how I work and the techniques I prefer to use.
 
Great advice.
Thanks again.
 
The CIA has a good and comprehensive book called the chefs knife kit. It is more then just what knives do what but also includes almost all of the non-motorized cutting/slicing equipment likely to be found in a standard prof. kitchen. It is about knives but also tells you for example how to line up the veg on your board to cut it faster etc. Like said before, if you have commercial intentions, it is really about repetition repetition repetition because in the end it is really about production production production and getting the product in the gut and out the door as quickly and efficiently as possible. Unless that is done all the fancy stuff is irrelevant, commercially speaking.
 
For purposes I have 4 knives I do everything with.
Global 7" Oriental Cooks Knife - a fantastic do it all utility knife.
21DWb7tvElL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

A small bird beak knife (mine is not a Shun, it was part of a 3 knife set and cost about $6 for all three)
21EJ3137P5L._SL160_AA160_.jpg

My CRKT Big Eddy - this thing was on clearance here in town for $10 and it is a champ that blasts through fish and is great for trimming pork loins...both things I do a lot of.
216298PP2FL._SL160_AA160_.jpg

Lastly, my Shun 10" Chef Knife. I love this thing but I only use it for serious slicing jobs. It is a razor and as such has a more delicate scary sharp edge.
213YMXBJVJL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


I came to these knives through much trial and error and I am not stuck on any of them no matter how nice they are. I am always looking for better, more comfortable, and higher quality tools. Changing things up occasionally is good if the change is for the better.

This does not take in to account the tools I need/use for my carvings, although the bird beak is all I need to do 99% of my run of the mill garnish and i find the bird beak style blade to be more precise and utilitarian over a traditional paring knife.
 
You guys are a fount of knowledge.
Thanks for all the info, I will be doing some serious research to find what's best for me.
 
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