Canadian knife law specifics.

[Bronze Age Man]

New here, thought I would start with the legal end which I read years ago along with my hunting licence exam.

Canada is a bit vague and open to interpretation so you can get yourself in trouble with the wrong approach.
Once you avoid the prohibited weapons, automatic's operated with a button on the handle, knives you can flick open with your wrist you are legally entering the grey zone.
Custom's officers at the border however don't all like knives you can open with only one hand. They publicly declare they will take them unless the owner only has one arm. So while your assisted knife may be legal, arguing with them is an exercise in futility.

Carrying a tool for a legitimate purpose is fine, it is not a weapon. So wear whatever you want in the bush but not to the mall. If challenged you can weaponise your tool with the wrong answer or your behaviour. Who you are will make a difference.

A new immigrant at the airport after many hours without liquids became agitated and distraught. When challenged by police he grabbed a stapler and waved it around 'weaponising it'. Despite being heavily outnumbered by police he was tasered and died.

Another incident about 8 years ago, a very disturbed guy on a greyhound bus cut the head off the sleeping guy in the seat next to him. He threw the head off the bus, the other passengers left voluntarily. He is back on the buses already but security has changed.

A large university town had so many random stabbings in and outside bars I was thinking of starting a chain mail company. The police adopted a zero knife tolerance in the city bars and things improved.

It is illegal to carry tools for the purpose of house breaking so the emphasis is on you to explain why your coat has a pry bar and pliers inside at 3am.

Police will invite you to weaponise anything you carry with the wrong answer. Their job is to take weapons off the streets.

If it was legal to wear a 3.8" knife on your belt for no purpose and we all did it; I for one would not feel safer.

The problem with the Canadian system is the individual interpretation of the police officer and your answers to their questions. Just carrying a tool is fine but once it becomes a weapon you loose.

In the lunch room at work my 2 1/2" Bear Gryls folder opens pate packets beautifully without being intimidating. If I used a 4 inch folder some women may say "why does he need that?"

If I'm in the bush and see someone with a 4 inch belt knife I'm likely to say "if a black bear drags your wife out of your tent at night, you will wish you had a bigger knife mate". Wives love to hear that stuff! The reports of such incidents prove I'm right!

 

[Gaston444]

When I was a teenager I lived in a very bad neighborhood. Even though I have never committed a crime, being 6'2 and a little unfriendly looking would sometimes get me "Detained" by the RCMP, who were "Fishing" (Which they are not allowed to do anymore).

Finally one bit of true and useful information...

I have to say it must have been a real bad neighborhood, and you must have looked real young, real tough and be out real late in a real big city to have pat-downs happen to you in Canada, while doing nothing reprehensible...

Lateness is a big deal, as Police behaviour drastically changes late in the night, but I mean by that 1-4 am late, not 11 pm...

Two words are never mentioned in these types of discussion...: Probable Cause.

In Canada, if you don't give the cops Probable Cause, they cannot search you. Period.

If they ask to search you, be polite and ask why (if you have to even ask why, there's definitely something wrong with the request).

Anything they find without Probable Cause will get thrown out. That is simply the law. Now a big knife "printing" through clothes might be Probable Cause, and they might claim they saw that (though if you ask why they search you, and they can't say why...: Soon they will all have cameras, so their inability to answer will be on record...), but what this ignores is that you will never get into deep trouble if you have no record of any sort, and especially no arrests or history of violence.

You have arrests and a history of violence? Don't carry. You have no arrests or history of violence, and are over 30? Enjoy the fruits of your wisdom... Just avoid illegal or double-edged knives, and be prepared to have it confiscated, at worst...

Cops in Canada are not going to come down hard on someone with no arrest record or history of violence who they somehow found a knife on with no Probable Cause... They are not out there to create criminals out of nothing... They know they are letting enough murderers go as it is...

Gaston

 

[nakedjohnny]

Dealing with cops is one thing, I'm more baffled about the customs confiscating legal knives. I stopped buying knives from outside Canada for that reason, been through way too much trouble. I don't know how other guys do it, but I'm not about to disassemble and re-assemble, mess with the pivot & all that, screw my precious knife just to get it over here. What's up with the customs!? Knife choices are so limited up here, and the only choice left is warriors and wonders, where we have to pay retail premium.

 

[les_garten]

Canada is a bit vague and open to interpretation so you can get yourself in trouble with the wrong approach.
Once you avoid the prohibited weapons, automatic's operated with a button on the handle, knives you can flick open with your wrist you are legally entering the grey zone.
Custom's officers at the border however don't all like knives you can open with only one hand. They publicly declare they will take them unless the owner only has one arm. So while your assisted knife may be legal, arguing with them is an exercise in futility.

So I'm confused here. Are they confiscating Spyderco knives because with the hole I can open it one handed? How about an unassisted Flipper, it can be opened easily with one hand?

 

[Danke42]

Some folks have had flippers seized. They were traveling via mail etc. and if you pick thorough the details it seems like the CBSA agents felt they could open with just a wrist flick. There was a discussion about pivot adjustment and some other considerations so it could have been the CBSA doing some social engineering or it could have been a seller rolling the dice on something that wouldn't pass.

I'm still buying knives i like in the US and they're crossing the border without hinderance.

And as an aside if you do a currency converison and factor in freight and potential tax and duty Warriors and Wonders pricing is in line with Blade HQ. So in other words no that bad at all for retail (of course that's once again on knives I like; I haven't run a formula on all their inventory).

 

[les_garten]

Some folks have had flippers seized. They were traveling via mail etc. and if you pick thorough the details it seems like the CBSA agents felt they could open with just a wrist flick. There was a discussion about pivot adjustment and some other considerations so it could have been the CBSA doing some social engineering or it could have been a seller rolling the dice on something that wouldn't pass.

I'm still buying knives i like in the US and they're crossing the border without hinderance.

And as an aside if you do a currency converison and factor in freight and potential tax and duty Warriors and Wonders pricing is in line with Blade HQ. So in other words no that bad at all for retail (of course that's once again on knives I like; I haven't run a formula on all their inventory).

I'm mainly worrying about travel to Alaska and having to cross the border. I'll have to store Guns before I go, may have to leave my knife collection as well. Virtually every knife out there nowadays can be opened with one hand

 

[Danke42]

As long as you can't flick it, it's not a switch blade, or a bali you're in the tall grass.

You're coming to Canada not NYC.

They're really familiar with people going to Alaska. If you're carrying weapons they will do a vehicle search; too many cases of people trying to smuggle stuff. So check the requirements for what is allowed prior too. Check your vehicle and make sure you don't have throwing stars in the glove box or whatever.

 

[Gideons]

I know using a knife as a weapon is illegal. But, I always wondered if somebody was robbing a store you were in, or your home with a gun and your life was in immediate danger would you then be allowed to use a knife to defend yourself? Would it classify as using something such as a hammer (or other items that are primarily a tool) or would you get in more trouble with the law? Does anybody know the self defence laws in Canada btw? Or specifically Ontario.

 

[netguy1999]

I know using a knife as a weapon is illegal. But, I always wondered if somebody was robbing a store you were in, or your home with a gun and your life was in immediate danger would you then be allowed to use a knife to defend yourself? Would it classify as using something such as a hammer (or other items that are primarily a tool) or would you get in more trouble with the law? Does anybody know the self defence laws in Canada btw? Or specifically Ontario.

To the best of my knowledge, you are able to use force that is proportionate to the threat against you. Use whatever tool or object you have to defend yourself. As long as it is not a prohibited item, you're ok. The other stipulation is that the threat must not be retreating when you take action.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[stabman]

If it was legal to wear a 3.8" knife on your belt for no purpose and we all did it; I for one would not feel safer.

It is legal.
I sometimes walk around the city with a 5 inch fixed blade on my belt; other time it's a 4 inch blade folder in my pocket.

And I personally don't care if you feel safer or not...that's your problem, not mine.

 

[Danke42]

Generally speaking if terrorists and or Gary Busey invade your ship and shoot the place up and you take them all down with your knife you'll be in the clear.

Real world it's better to use something like a shovel of flashlight that you have in your home or at hand to defend yourself.

A very good example of self defense in Ontario would be the fellow attacked in McDonalds. He wasn't charged; he wasn't even named.

 

[Gideons]

Generally speaking if terrorists and or Gary Busey invade your ship and shoot the place up and you take them all down with your knife you'll be in the clear.

Real world it's better to use something like a shovel of flashlight that you have in your home or at hand to defend yourself.

A very good example of self defense in Ontario would be the fellow attacked in McDonalds. He wasn't charged; he wasn't even named.

He defended himself with a knife?

 

[gadgetgeek]

Clean record, obvious threat, and proportionate response? no probs. Also, the threat has to be to you, or another person, not to property or money, so if the guy with the knife can't reach anyone, and the teller chucks him the money, let him go. Any of those not there, and things would be sorted out in trial. A big factor is location and situation. But again, know your local laws! it doesn't much matter what the feds say if the county mountie puts the cuffs on. Instead of worrying about it, just be smart.

I'd love to see some actually pull the "probable cause" line on an officer. way to win friends and influence people. That is going instantly put him on alert, and if he's feeling aggressive, a good way to get him to make life miserable. Or just a way to ensure that whatever warning he was going to give turns into a ticket, any at all.

Knives getting picked at the boarder has more to do with the way boarder protection views their role, and just because they read the law different to you, doesn't make them wrong, as such. There are plenty of knives that are just fine, and plenty of other retailers in Canada, the problem is that guys are willing to gamble on the boarder to save a buck or two, so they can't compete on volume. Wanting something to be legal just because you want it isn't how the system works. It might be messed up, and it might be a bit screwy, possibly corrupt, but at the end of the day, its not there just as an employment program, though it may seem to be. The problem is when we treat each organization like some kind of monolith instead of a group of people. Some of those people might play personal politics, it happens, and it happens everywhere. So just deal with it. Keep in mind that there are a lot of decisions that get made out of the public eye, so info from a few years ago might no longer apply, or other legal decisions can come into play.

A large part of why australia got its rules changed is people supporting the local groups and retailers who were able to provide weight to getting the rules changed. Yes it wasn't much, and the momentum might have already been there as it came with a larger simplification of regulations, but still, it worked. Giving boarder control more reasons to lock down doesn't help much.

 

[Bronze Age Man]

You miss the point! There is no law specifically legalising a blade up to a certain size is fine to wear for NO purpose. Because the law is open you may be asked why you have that. "Because the law says I can wear a 3.8 inch blade regardless" is not a valid answer. "I use this in my job as a ........" may well be valid. If you can justify the carry it's legal. There are certainly tasks in a town where a 5 inch fixed blade may be used legitimately. The fact that very very few people wear one in town says "he must need that".
A woman arrested for passing a forged prescription waited with her boyfriend. The police arrested the boyfriend for having a 6 inch boot knife under his trouser leg. Two weeks later arrested again with another boot knife. "I need that for my personal security as I am a drug dealer" is the wrong answer.

 

[Danke42]

He defended himself with a knife?

Worse than a knife; a gun.

 

[Mjr69]

It is legal.
I sometimes walk around the city with a 5 inch fixed blade on my belt; other time it's a 4 inch blade folder in my pocket.

And I personally don't care if you feel safer or not...that's your problem, not mine.

This right here. If you're abiding by the law who cares. I am certainly not going to bow down to manipulations of law enforcement or people who question why I have something that is legal. I certainly don't understand the interests of many people but if it's legal I don't care.

As far cbsa goes I have had my truck searched with a zt0300 sitting in the console, a mini barrage in my pocket and a Busse TGLB in my pack. The search was prompted by me declaring a work sharp I had purchased in my travels. "Do you have any weapons anything you use for self defence?" Simple response was "no sir I do not". They do their job and I am on my way.

 

[gadgetgeek]

Bronze age, Due to Canada having a legal system based around intent, and since all laws must take into account the lowest common denominator, or worse case idiot, having a reason that you can articulate to another person seems a low bar to meet.

I don't understand your examples, to me they are a clear reason why the law is what it is. If that knife was legal without any question of intent, when clearly the gentleman in question was carrying it for an illegal purpose, there would be no way to stop him from doing so. As far as your longer post goes, I'm really not sure what you argument is, besides looking to feel superior to others. When it comes to knives and bears, well that's been beaten to death over in both of the outdoor sub forums.

Danke42, can you post a link to the mcdonalds story, living overseas, I don't get much canadian news anymore and I don't know where to start looking for what you are referring to.

 

[stabman]

When it comes to knives and bears, well that's been beaten to death over in both of the outdoor sub forums.

A 4 inch bladed knife MUST be good for keeping bears away.
I have proof; I often carry a knife with a 4 inch blade, and there are no bears at all in Windsor.

Just try to defeat that logic!

 

[gadgetgeek]

you are carrying too much blade, I've only been carrying a SAK, and the last koala I saw was trying to hid in a tree and play dead so I wouldn't come after him!

 

[stabman]

you are carrying too much blade, I've only been carrying a SAK, and the last koala I saw was trying to hid in a tree and play dead so I wouldn't come after him!

Well Koalas, sure.
It's Grizzlies and Polar Bears we don't have here!

The real reason for more blade though? Ice cream cake.
One time when I was working security back a few years, a family was leaving The Keg after a birthday party, and had a huge, expensive ice cream cake with them.
They asked if I and the other guard might like some.

We had no spoons or forks around...but I had the Spyderco Tuff! :thumbup:
The length of blade meant that nothing got into the pivot, and the width of blade made for better spatula action.
It was really, really delicious cake, and we would have missed out on it if not for having a decently sized knife.