Chinese Folder Question?

C

Clay Kesting

Joined
Oct 10, 1998
Messages
648
Sal,

I was wondering if you have decided on the scale material for this collaboration. OK so it's been a slow day and, anyway, this knife has been on my mind since last Blade. Whilst Titanium, like the original, would be nice, I have a feeling that it may be too expensive, especially with the added machining for the rolling lock. If you are going to use micarta or G10, would it be possible to use a colour other than black. I have a feeling that another colour might suit the knife better as it is clearly a worker rather than a tactical knife. How about something like the tan scales on the prototype REKAT Carnivour?

I hope you don't mind me making this suggestion, it's just that I'm using this opportunity to get some "custom" input without paying custom price
biggrin.gif
.

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Take care,
Clay

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance." Anonymous


 
While making the fixed blade version of this knife (a collaborattion with Mel Sorg), I began with forest green G-10 and didn't like it at all. The G-10 just didn't have the refined look of Micarta, in my opinion. Anyway, I stripped the scales and started over, and the second time I used mosaic pins on black canvas Micarta. Looks GREAT! I also etched a Chinese inscription which translates to Chinese Utility on the blade flats. I hope to have a picture available soon. Just remember, though, that you heard about the FIRST fixed blade Chinese utility here first! ;-)
Steve
 
Clay - Actually, it is very timely question. I would be intersted in all opinions and experiences (thanx Steve). We had this duscussion last week in a manufacturing meeting.

Steel is heavy in a folder this size. Titanium is nice, but adds considerably to the cost of manufacture. We have found that Micarta has a tendency to shrink in drastic humidity changes, making it less suitable for larger models. G-10 is one of the nicest materials, but it also has a few disadvantages. Current thoughts are leaning towards anodized aluminum.

We're still working out lock details. The Rolling Lock seems to be the most prefered, but we're still tweaking "our" Rolling lock in engineering. (Lke our Linerlocks, I expect that "our" Rolling lock will have a few refinements).

Bob made prototypes in four sizes. Although this design seems to be taking a long time to develop, I believe that the design has nice long term potential and would like to "do it right" the 1st time.

A "Spyderco Rolling Lock module" would drop right into a FRN (Fiberglas Reinforced Nylon) handle permitting more people to enjoy the design because of the lower manufacturing cost of FRN.

We also have two other lock designs that R&D is "playing with".
sal
 
Sal,

Without knowing anything about the other locks I would go with the Rolling Lock. However there is one thing I am wondering. Are those other locks stronger? I suggest to choices. Aluminum as well as FRN thus there could be a lower cost version. How about offering the aluminum in a variety of colors? My female customers are screaming for color and frankly I agree with them. I myself am tired of "you can have any color as long as it is natural or black". There seems to be a glut in the market place of such knives and I suspect people are starting to tire of that. I know I am. By all means take your time on this one and get it rite. How about Grivoy? Not sure if the spelling is correct or not.


Regards,

Tom Carey

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IF you are a knife maker interested in free space on the web.
Check out. CGA online

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Sal you have email I see you working today also give me a ring (208)263-0848 or (208)265-8858 I am off and running early tommrow on the Talonite Project

Bob Taylor

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Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints and escaping.
 
Sal,

I hadn't thought of anodised aluminium, but that would be an excellent choice. Also a cheaper FRN model, what about one of the colours which were discussed in the Matriarch thread?

Take as long as you like to develope this knife. This is going to be my next top end folder and the longer it takes the less money I spend on knives (and the more I spend on food for my children)
smile.gif
. Actually it is a wonderful design and is worth the time and effort to do it justice.

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Take care,
Clay

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance." Anonymous


 
Since I have been frothing at the mouth in anticipation of this model I'll throw my $.02 in the fountain.

Al is soft and even when anodized scratchs easily and looks horrible after a short time of hard use. Ever seen a maglite that was used frequently and you know what I mean. I'm sure that Sal has picked the very best hard anondization process but I still have my doubts. Clear anodized would be my preference for this material. You still get the harder coating but scratches don't show so clearly.

G10 is boring but the matte finish hides scratches a bit better. Also provides a more "gription". I'm seeing more and more colors of G10 it seems.

Steel-too heavy AND too slippery.

Micarta-I like micarta and have not had any problems with it reacting to environment (or absorbing odors) but I don't live in the tropics or the desert. It is not very hard but small scratches seem to blend right it. On my frequently carried Calypso Jr the steel pins and pivot pin show more scratches than the micarta scales.

On a RL Lum Chinese folder I would vote for G10 with slim steel liners. Not super light but lighter than steel only. With the shape of that handle I think the G10 would provide more friction for safety.

FRN would be OK but it bores me more than G10. A light weight version would be nice though.

Maybe that helps. Maybe it doesn't.
wink.gif
 
Aluminum is preferable, but I'd rather anything besides more G-10.

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-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
 
All indications are that this is going to be a "nice" knife. FRN is light and cheap, but has been used enough that it is getting pretty boring, especially in black.

I agree with the folks who think aluminum scratches too easily. I would be disappointed in a natural aluminum, even with a hard anodized finish. This is not a knife for "boring" handles. I'd like to see something different. If I buy this knife I'd want to see something that isn't just like every other knife I have -- something with a little pizzazz. Tan or green G-10 would be more interesting. I don't need tactical black for all my knives. Micarta is certainly more classy, but if it isn't good for larger pieces, then something that is would be better. Sal, you didn't say anything about what the problems were with G-10. I guess I'd still look at the knife if it had Zytel handles, but I'd sure look harder if they weren't black.


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Paul Neubauer
prn@bsu.edu
 
Sal,
How much more would the Ti add to the knife?
That is a very durable handle material and sought after in other knives.

G2

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When a fellow says, "it ain't the money but the principle of the thing,"
it's the money.
F. McKinney Hubbard

www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Cabin/7306/blades.html


 
Gary - depending on the shape, size and machine work required, $40 - $50 on the retail level over more currently used materials. Just a guess based on the ti knives we've produced and some modern equipment.

The prototypes are made with ti handles and they are very nice. Bonb did a beautiful job. The small one I just received is exquisite (2.5" blade). May eventualy end up using ti, but I'm still open. Burgundy Micarta rings my bell on this model, but we've have to use liners also.
sal
 
Sal, here's some more input from me. I have made several kit knives in the last 6 months, and I have some impressions. First of all, I did not like the look of forest green G-10 at all. It was blurry and lacked refinement. I LOVE my black linen Micarta Calypso, and a Lum with this material would be tres classy. I would like to see it countoured a bit to fit the hand slightly and bring out the layers a bit. I used maroon Micarta on my Simonich Cetan (pics can be found <a href = "http://www.geocities.com/Collegepark/Lab/1298/knifehome.html"> here</a>). The maroon Micarta is different, classy and easy to work with and care for. I used canvas Micarta on my fixed blade version of the Lum in question (pics soon, I promise!) and while it is nice for exposing layers, it certainly lacks refinement. I think it looks cool, though.
I would like to see the knife offered in Zytel, or whatever your plastic handles are, because it would be light and affordable. Aluminum would be bad, I think, due to its softness. Steel lacks character and is too heavy. Titanium is cool, and offers a lot of choices for customizing post-purchase via anodizing (which weakens the Ti, in case you didn't know...would that affect warranty?), but Ti is a lot heavier than aluminum and the other materials I mentioned, except for steel. Also it costs too dang much! I think the ideal choices would be Micarta, especially in black (polished), butterscotch (tan), or burgundy. I don't think the Chinese design offers much in the way of tactical capabilities, so the all-black stealth design seems pointless. I see the buyer of this knife being one or both of two groups:
1) Someone looking for an affordable hard-wroking knife that would serve a lot of purposes. In this case, use the Zytel.
2) Someone looking for a high quality, fancy folder for everyday pocket carry (and bragging rights!), but are sick of the American tanto/stealth/tactical/armor piercing knife. These people would be willing to pay a little extra for a classy, non-tactical looking handle, which points toward the colored Micartas with a bit of contour to add character. Think about it and thanks for reading!
Steve
 
While I really liked the titanium, the lower cost of something else sounds good. The burgandy micarta sounds very nice. Can you still do a RL lock with micarta?? If so I'd be happy with that. Would a Tuff-frame Aluminum handle be much cheaper then titanium?? Just wondering.


Blades

[This message has been edited by Blades (edited 02 June 1999).]
 
Blades - if we used micarta, steel liners would have to be used to carry the RL. Tufram Aluminum carries some manufacturing process difficulties that raise the price. Not as much as Ti, but more than people want to pay for aluminum.
sal
 
Good question Sal. As far as models. The Delica and Endura seem to be the top sellers for most folks and are for me. So those would be good ones. As far as colors I would suggest blue, red, some sort of decent green, and, purple. The first three would be my first choices. If it is done on those two and done in either Zytel or Grivoy. I am sure it would be easy enough to do especialy since zytel is already used. So the costs would be minor I would think. Those two knives sell very well for me because of their price point and quality. To keep things simple I would suggest offering a choice of colors in just those two models and maybe it would be best to offer just three colors. The color's I would suggest would be black red and blue. My customers loved the Gigand Spectrum LT's I had in blue and red. Those sold very fast. Much faster in fact than the ones in black. People are really getting tired of just basic black it seems.


Regards,

Tom Carey
 
Sal,

I have the same ringing in my ears
smile.gif
. I love the look and feel of the micarta scales on my Viele and burgundy micarta fits the mental image I have of this knife. Only problem may be grip retention when wet. Would bead-blasting or checkering be possible and how would it look?

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Take care,
Clay

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance." Anonymous




[This message has been edited by Clay Kesting (edited 03 June 1999).]
 
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