Chinese Steel

K

Khaki

Joined
Jan 4, 2024
Messages
8
I have recently upgraded my sharpening gear to a TSProf Pioneer, and couldn't be more pleased.
I have more kitchen knives than my wife or I need by a factor of 5 or 6, and include Shun, Yaxell, Kanetsune, Wustof, Zwillings and Felix, AND (wait for it) Hezhen and Xinzuo.
I have just sharpened with my new toy a Hezhen 200mm Chinese Chefs knife (i.e. cleaver style knife) to 18 DPS.
The steel, X9Cr18MoV, is amazing with at least the same exquisite feel of VG Max in the Shuns or VG10 in my Yaxells, indeed it felt like it was little bit harder and finer grained.
I was pleasantly surprised, as it was less than half the cost (in Australia) of the same equivalent san mai knife in the Tojiro or other made in Japan ranges.
Just thought I'd post my positive experience with this quality Chinese steel, and hope that people like Dr Rayeye and others with an objective view might see it.
 
There have been a whole series of reviews and evaluation of both Xinzuo and Hezhen kitchen knives by Chef Panko on his website, like this one comparing the latest Chinese VG10 and sg2:


He's been very impressed with their latest knife series. So have I.
 
Some reports say that 9Cr18MoV is the same as the Cromova18 that Global uses so it should be decent. It is similar to 440B.
 
Khaki said:
I was pleasantly surprised, as it was less than half the cost (in Australia) of the same equivalent san mai knife in the Tojiro or other made in Japan ranges.
Click to expand...
That is a statement that doesn't make sense because Chinese factories didn't start making Japanese styled cooking knives until the late 1990s, whereas many Japanese makers have been around for many decades. In some cases centuries. In other words, whether they are "the equivalent" or not can't be determined because they haven't been around and in wide use long enough.
But definitely agree that the Yangjiang factories pump out such enormous volumes that Chinese knives cost much less.
I have used Tojiros for over 35 years and have yet to see any Chinese made knife match it. They say you get what you pay for.
 
Right now, it's possible to buy and compare production knives that are roughly comparable from Chinese and Japanese manufacturers. It is only recently that a few Chinese manufacturers have been able to achieve performance and quality at the enthusiast level, but my own experiences with Xinzuo and Hezhen support Khaki's observation, and Chef Panko has done reviews across quite a few models that extend similar observations to a full range of Xinzuo and Hezhen products.
 
KenHash said:
That is a statement that doesn't make sense because Chinese factories didn't start making Japanese styled cooking knives until the late 1990s, whereas many Japanese makers have been around for many decades. In some cases centuries. In other words, whether they are "the equivalent" or not can't be determined because they haven't been around and in wide use long enough.
But definitely agree that the Yangjiang factories pump out such enormous volumes that Chinese knives cost much less.
I have used Tojiros for over 35 years and have yet to see any Chinese made knife match it. They say you get what you pay for.
Click to expand...
Sorry Ken, I should have said "currently commercially available same style of blade construction made in Japan" such as Tojiro.
I regret any suggestion that the Chinese steel has the heritage of the Japanese product.
I hope this clears up what I was trying to say about my experience.
 
Khaki said:
I have recently upgraded my sharpening gear to a TSProf Pioneer, and couldn't be more pleased.
I have more kitchen knives than my wife or I need by a factor of 5 or 6, and include Shun, Yaxell, Kanetsune, Wustof, Zwillings and Felix, AND (wait for it) Hezhen and Xinzuo.
I have just sharpened with my new toy a Hezhen 200mm Chinese Chefs knife (i.e. cleaver style knife) to 18 DPS.
The steel, X9Cr18MoV, is amazing with at least the same exquisite feel of VG Max in the Shuns or VG10 in my Yaxells, indeed it felt like it was little bit harder and finer grained.
I was pleasantly surprised, as it was less than half the cost (in Australia) of the same equivalent san mai knife in the Tojiro or other made in Japan ranges.
Just thought I'd post my positive experience with this quality Chinese steel, and hope that people like Dr Rayeye and others with an objective view might see it.
Click to expand...
Just wanted to say, thanks for the post. I’m actually checking them out as we speak.
 
I think the Chinese are getting better and better - I lived in Hong Kong and Macau for 15 years and I have family on the mainland in Guangzhou not that far from where I lived and worked.
They are brilliant imitators, innovators and inventors - plus they disregard patents.They had the Silk Road to learn the World trade from.They want a new Silk Road - fair play to them.
I`m going to Chinatown and my local chamber of commerce at weekend because I want to get my friends to pick me up a decent Chinese factory knife on their jaunts to China for my brother`s upcoming birthday - that will be enlightening because he thinks that the recent Savernake DNA I bought him is too expensive and good to use and he won`t use the endgrain acacia chopping board I got him for Christmas either.

I am thinking of Hezhen and Xinzuo plus Dongsun but there will be makes there that are generally not exported or available to the West - just for the local market so I am leaving it in my friend`s capable hands - they know I love cooking and anything sharp and I used to get hot and sweaty in a 150 year old forge many years ago - no need for saunas for my arthritis haha!
On Friday I was 140 lbs - on Monday I was 120 lbs - I didn`t need weighing scales to tell me because I could take my jeans off without undoing my belt or zip and buttons.
 
Last edited:
roaduck said:
I think the Chinese are getting better and better - I lived in Hong Kong and Macau for 15 years and I have family on the mainland in Guangzhou not that far from where I lived and worked.
They are brilliant imitators, innovators and inventors - plus they disregard patents.They had the Silk Road to learn the World trade from.They want a new Silk Road - fair play to them.
I`m going to Chinatown and my local chamber of commerce at weekend because I want to get my friends to pick me up a decent Chinese factory knife on their jaunts to China for my brother`s upcoming birthday - that will be enlightening because he thinks that the recent Savernake DNA I bought him is too expensive and good to use and he won`t use the endgrain acacia chopping board I got him for Christmas either.

I am thinking of Hezhen and Xinzuo plus Dongsun but there will be makes there that are generally not exported or available to the West - just for the local market so I am leaving it in my friend`s capable hands - he knows I love cooking and anything sharp haha!
Click to expand...
Feel free to check out recent reviews on Chef Panko's website. He has been in direct contact with the knife designer from Xinzuo/Hezhen, and has some interesting observations:

 
Thanks a lot D Dr. Rayeye - I`ve seen a few of his videos and he seems to me to be genuine and doing it more for love than money - trying to share his experiences and get people to broaden their horizons.
I am not a chef - I`ve never weighed anything, followed recipes or used a clock in the kitchen but I can do 50 types of pastry dough and pasta and can cook for a wedding reception of 300 using just a 20 pence 5 inch bendy knife and potato peeler and I made a 3-tier wedding cake for hundreds using just £100 worth of ingredients - when I was 17 - i was chucked in the deep end - did it for love - nothing else needed one rainy weekend.
 
I just went to another knife forum that was sponsored by a knife business and I was told off for finding Chinese bargains and recommending them to people that are going through hell financially at the moment in these terrible tumultuous times.
I have just tried to help people all my life - for nothing but love - now I feel guilty because I was potentially supposedly impacting a business that imports dear Japanese knives - sometimes I can`t win.
The moderators and bosses don`t know Chinese history and how they fought the Japanese and taught them to forge iron and steel because their civilisation is so much older - they must read more books lol.
The new thought-crime and pc stuff - that`s not real life - it`s virtual the new reality - scoffs - haha!
 
Last edited:
roaduck said:
The moderators and bosses don`t know Chinese history and how they fought the Japanese and taught them to forge iron and steel because their civilisation is so much older - they must read more books lol.
The new thought-crime and pc stuff - that`s not real life - it`s virtual the new reality - scoffs - haha!
Click to expand...
Roaduck, I don't know where you are getting your information but;

-The Chinese Yuan Dynasty under the Mongol Kublai Khan tried to invade Japan twice in the 1200s and failed both times. But by the 1200s iron making was so far developed that swords
in Japan were no longer straight but curved in the well known form. The swords went from straight (mainland style) to curved completely by 800 AD.
Forging iron originally came from the Korean Penninsula. an area that was called Kaya at the time. By the time Japan sent ambassadors and scholars to the Song and Tang dynasties iron working was aready well established. Iron working developed in Japan on it's own after that exceeding the Asian mainland.
It was Eastern European/Central Asian Scythians who brought iron working to inland China, from West to East along the northern belt where there was plenty of timber for fuel.
 
roaduck said:
I just went to another knife forum that was sponsored by a knife business and I was told off for finding Chinese bargains and recommending them to people that are going through hell financially at the moment in these terrible tumultuous times.
I have just tried to help people all my life - for nothing but love - now I feel guilty because I was potentially supposedly impacting a business that imports dear Japanese knives - sometimes I can`t win.
The moderators and bosses don`t know Chinese history and how they fought the Japanese and taught them to forge iron and steel because their civilisation is so much older - they must read more books lol.
The new thought-crime and pc stuff - that`s not real life - it`s virtual the new reality - scoffs - haha!
Click to expand...
Surprised you weren't banned.
It's probably coming....
 
roaduck said:
I just went to another knife forum that was sponsored by a knife business and I was told off for finding Chinese bargains and recommending them to people that are going through hell financially at the moment in these terrible tumultuous times.
I have just tried to help people all my life - for nothing but love - now I feel guilty because I was potentially supposedly impacting a business that imports dear Japanese knives - sometimes I can`t win.
The moderators and bosses don`t know Chinese history and how they fought the Japanese and taught them to forge iron and steel because their civilisation is so much older - they must read more books lol.
The new thought-crime and pc stuff - that`s not real life - it`s virtual the new reality - scoffs - haha!
Click to expand...
In the United States, we were invaded culturally by Europeans with only a small bit of resistance in our home kitchens quite a few years ago, but our real love of knives begins in wilderness survival for many of us. My first knives were a small 5 inch hunting knife and a folding Swiss Army knife I used when I cleaned trout right by the stream--even before I took them to the campground. I saw vegetable cleavers being used in Chinese restaurants, and European Chef knives in Western restaurants, but no Japanese knives until I went to Japan. By that time, the Chinese were already supplying inexpensive copies of Western knives OEM to suppliers like Mercer for restaurants, and Chicago Cutlery for big box shops--offering bargain prices. By the time I got involved in buying kitchen knives as an enthusiast, I saw cultural value in all the traditions, with a special interest in our American home grown efforts. In my kitchen, I have an extended range of kitchen knives from Europe, China, and Japan, with a few American kitchen knives thrown in as well.
 
Thanks for all the info guys - my memory is not the same after my mini stroke 4 years ago - much appreciation to you all.
 
Thanks for putting me straight KenHash I am just getting reacquainted with the Josean dynastic Kingdom of Korea in the 14th century - I totally forgot about the crucial moments in medieval metallurgy and the significance for Japanese smithing and effect on Chinese history and subsequent regional wars etc.
I just read "In Korea, iron artefacts appear as early as 400 BC, but they are considered by most to be imported from China" I love ancient history - not much new under the sun as they say.
 
Last edited:
Interesting posts Roaduck. You do realize that some people are on multiple forums, right? Last time I go out of my way to try to help someone out, only to be insulted and lied about on another forum.
:rolleyes:

Garry3, you must be a fortune teller
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top