cosmos

The Cosmos has been our most challanging project to date and we have not given up yet.

I should know in the next 30 days the status of this project.



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Sincerely,
Outdoor Edge Cutlery Corp.


David Bloch

See our Online Catalog at: http://www.outdooredge.com


 
Is the Cosmos related to the Citizen knife by CAS Iberia? After seeing the ad for the Cosmos, I looked all over for it and ended up coming across a link to CAS Iberia's Citizen Knife. It looks very similar.

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Blue Skies!
 
BTTT...

I too am interested in the Cosmos. David, any update you can offer yet?

 
sw3253, I came across the Citizen knife By CAS Iberia. I'm not sure if the Cosmos works on the same principle, but it locks solid. I gor rid of mine in a trade. The edge was rather dull and the sheath was cheaply made. I look forward to seeing the Cosmos, which I'm sure will come razor sharp.
 
The CAS Citizen is an unauthorized copy based on a Ray Appleton design. The lock on the Cosmos requires very precise tollerances and is quite different from the Citizen. The lock is our final obstacle in finalizing production of the Cosmos. We should know in the next 60 days whether the Cosmos is a go or not.

I will be sure to post the result once I have more news on the Cosmos production.



------------------
Sincerely,
Outdoor Edge Cutlery Corp.


David Bloch

See our Online Catalog at: http://www.outdooredge.com


 
frown.gif
 
Hello everyone, We are sorry the project is a washout, it would have been nice to see these knives get into collectors hands. We wish David and Outdoor Edge the best and hope to embark on some similar project at some point in the future.
In Lieu of the Cosmos project, I am at this time getting into the ending stages of the only other (quasi) mass produced Appleton project. I am building 25 knives of a style picked by my father and myself, to roughly represent the epitomy of our combined efforts both in style and ease of carry. These knives will all have aesthetic differences to a certain degree, but will be based on the lower knifemakers IQ mechanism, that is they will be a double rotating button open locking mechanism. If anyone might be interested in this project you can contact me at 303-822-5864 or e-mail me at ron@netecin.net You can also contact my dad, Ray Appleton at 303-822-5866 or e-mail at ray@netecin.net
Thanks,
Ron Appleton
 
To all Cosmos fans and the Appletons:

It is with my sincere regret that we have no choice but to throw in the towel on the Cosmos project. In over two years of developing the Cosmos we had contracted three casting facilities and done extensive research in CNC machining and wire EDM. Our final determination was that the Cosmos was much too costly from a machining standpoint and required such tight tollerances that unfortunately this project is not feasible to produce on a production basis.

We thank you for all your interest in patience in waiting for the Cosmos to come to fruition. I also want to offer my sincere thanks and gratitude to Ray & Ron Appleton for offering Outdoor Edge the opportunity to produce a recreation of the original Cosmos design. Is has been an honor and a privelege to work with the Appleton's. These are two individuals who I believe have reached the highest level in the art of knifemaking.
 
Very sorry to hear the news. Somehow thought I'd heard that earlier, that the Cosmos was down for the count.

I'm quite curious as to the meaning of this quote from Ron Appleton's message: "These knives will all have aesthetic differences to a certain degree, but will be based on the lower knifemakers IQ mechanism, that is they will be a double rotating button open locking mechanism."

Specifically, what does "lower knifemakers IQ mechanism" mean? Who are these makers? Lower than who?
 
To Bugs:

My last reply was taken from another Cosmos thread which is why it may sound familiar. I did want to fill in any one who didn't get to read this.

The original IQ lock mechanism (Lower IQ)was developed by Ray Appleton some 15 years ago. I saw it for the first time at my first Blade Show in 1988 (Knoxville, TN). The lower IQ is not one of Ray's more complicated lock mechanisms however it is by far the most entertaining to see Ray demonstrate to a crowd. The knife folds smooth and silent to an open locked position and then Ray asks any knifemaker or knife nut in the crowd to test their knifemaker's IQ and try to close it. More often than not the individual gives up without figuring how to unlock the IQ. This goes for several veteran knifemakers who are shamed to admit they had never seen a folding knife they could not close.

The Higher IQ was developed by Ron Appleton and is basically the IQ mechanism taken to a new level. The Higher IQ locks the blade in both an open and closed position. Although this difference may seem subtle that is where the similarity between the two locks end. The inner working of both mechanisms are worlds apart. I believe when Ron first handed his dad the higher IQ to open, Ray was unable to do so and hense the lock received the name "Higher IQ". Yes, the apprentice was able to stump the master. The Higher IQ is by far one of the most innovative lock mechanisms I have seen and is pure joy to operate. Ron told me he just sold his original Higher IQ knife to a collector. I may have to stop out to Byers later this week to handle this piece one more time before it gets passed on to the new owner.
 
Thanks, David, for a clear and detailed explanation. I couldn't help but wonder if some sort of slam against competitors was intended by the name. Sounds like 2 very interesting knives. What little I know of Ray Appleton, makes him sound like one of those "one in a million" type man. And, it sure sounds like the apple didn't fall very far from the tree. (Gosh, I'm speaking in cliches!)

Appreciate the confirmation of my memory. It is so shabby, that I rarely trust it at all.
 
Dear Bugs,
In 1986, Frank Gamble, another knifemaker, met my dad Ray in the parking lot outside the custom knife show in Solvang CA. and talked him into coming into the show after he had seen one of my dads knives. Frank showed him around and introduced him to many makers and collectors. It is at this show my father was first recognized for having a new and unique approach to the age old art of making knives. Frank borrowed a knife with an interesting mechanism and showed it to every knifemaker in the show challenging them all to open the knife, and having a ball doing it. It was at this show that Frank Gamble coined the phrase and the name of this mechanism, "The knifemakers IQ". It has proven a wise and fortuitous name and has stuck well. I am very proud of my father for not only having the mind of a genius, but also the compassion and softness of a wonderful grandfather. He is kind and open, and I hope to God that no one would ever see either of us as egotistical or pretentious. In response to the letter from you, I would say that I hope to meet you someday and get to know you some. Only in that way might you dispell any thoughts you might have that we would ever talk down to or "slam" any other knifemaker. We dont feel we do anything better ,, just different. Every knifemaker and collector is always welcome here to visit most all the time and we try to offer information anyone might ask. I apologize for giving you the ideas you expressed, I should have been more descriptive.
Ron Appleton
 
Thanks very much, Ron. Should have kept my yap shut, I'm sure. It was obvious from David Bloch's response that there was no egotism involved in the unusual monicker for the lock your father invented. Don't know why I added part of my reason for having asked the question as to what it meant.

I think very highly of Ed Fowler. I know that he feels the same about your Dad. That is more than enough for me. I am amazed at how little egotism there is in the world of custom knives, given the very real talents of so many who dwell there. Guess I'll always have the suspicious mind of an investigator/parole officer, which I used to be. I'll work on chilling it out whenever I remember.

I too would like to meet you one day. Don't know when I'll get down Colorado way. Do intend to try to attend the Eugene Oregon show next spring.

Thanks for your very nice post. I truly appreciate it, and as I said about you in the last post here, it appears that you -- the apple -- didn't turn out much different from your Dad.
 
As per Ron's last post, I would say simply:

The Appleton's are not the best at what they do they are the only ones who do what they do.;)
 
I guess I will. I only caught up with this thread the other day. Has a die sinking EDM process been considered for the lock portion of manufacturing the knife?

I have only seen pictures and descriptions of the Appleton's lock mechanisms, but as I understand it, in principle there something like a gear cut into the blade with a mating one cut into the button and a ball bearing which locks both together when engaged. I'm quite sure I'm missing out on critical aspects of the lock design, but I hope I have the basic principle correct.

Anyway, I know that the equivalent of cutting internal gear teeth - particularly if they don't go all the way through the stock can be a manufacturing nightmare. However, within certain limits, this can be where a die sinking EDM process can shine. The important aspect is that the die can be virtually any shape that you can plunge directly down into the material. Obviously, the precision of the die becomes incredibly critical at this point, but you only need to make one of those.

Granted, this is still relatively expensive as a way to go, but with volume maybe the economics would work out.

If you researched wire EDM, I imagine that you must have at least looked at the possibility of die sinking, but I thought I would mention it just in case. I've had to figure out how to manufacture alot of weird things in my career (I'm a mechanical engineer that pretty much has spent all of his career in manufacturing) and had actually thought about how to manufacture one of Ray's knives sort of as an exercise after reading a magazine article around it.

Anyway - just call me one of the many Appleton fans out there who finds many of the knives extremely elegant, and functionally novel in a landscape of knives which often times isn't. Unfortunately, you can also call me one of those Appleton fans that has never really had a chance to handle one close up and buy one, and is wistfully hoping someone can figure out how to manufacture one in quantity that is still good quality. (I saw a copy in a knife shop once which really was not impressive at all - I don't remember who made it, but vaguely remember that it might have been chinese)
 
Thanks for the comments and Yes, we did plan to use EDM to produce the lock. Without going into detail, we found that the all the processes required to make the Cosmos were unfortunately too costly and time consuming from a production standpoint to feasibly produce the knife. As they say, "If we only knew now what we should have know then".
 
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