CPM CruWear HRC?

[McFeeli]

So for the better part of last night I was reading a thread on different heat treats for ZWear(CruWear basically), after seeing the different ranges of hardness(58-64), out of curiosity I'd like to know what Spyderco is running their CPM CruWear at, particularly their newer models. I'm loving my Manix 2 in CruWear and it's always better to know more about this new(for me) steel than less.

I was able to uncover that their CruWear military was being run at 61 HRC, but that model ran quite a while ago so maybe they tried to push it a little further, or maybe even softer(doubtful).

So if anyone would happen to know this by testing their blades by one means or another, I'd love to know what you found out. I know from blade to blade it may vary slightly, but I trust Spyderco's quality control so if one model is run at a certain hardness, I'd bet the others would be right there as well.

Thanks for any input!

 

[McFeeli]

Really? No one knows this? I'm kind of surprised.

 

[Mo2]

Spyderco dont generally state hrc numbers/ranges.

here is the ankerson test http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/...ed-on-edge-retention-cutting-5-8-rope.793481/

Cru-Wear - 260 - Military - ? RC

they didnt get the RC value for it.

good luck, you will have to send yours to someone to test it... but keep in mind it will be very different than what they would have tested at the factory because every machine is calibrated differently and some people use different scales.

maybe @Sal Glesser would know off hand, or maybe you can send it to spyderco to get it tested for a fee/cost?

 

[McFeeli]

Spyderco dont generally state hrc numbers/ranges.

here is the ankerson test http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/...ed-on-edge-retention-cutting-5-8-rope.793481/

Cru-Wear - 260 - Military - ? RC

they didnt get the RC value for it.

good luck, you will have to send yours to someone to test it... but keep in mind it will be very different than what they would have tested at the factory because every machine is calibrated differently and some people use different scales.

maybe @Sal Glesser would know off hand, or maybe you can send it to spyderco to get it tested for a fee/cost?

Yeah I knew Spyderco kept that info close at hand, but as many people on this site that go through absolutely everything with a fine tooth comb, I expected one person to know, haha. For other steels it's available if you dig around, there's just not much on Spyderco's CruWear(which is why I'm so damned curious).

That's alright, though. Either way it's not a problem, I thought I'd put my question out there to see what'd bite. Thanks!

 

[DRLyman]

I'd be interested in knowing this, too. Although, it won't change how I use the Manix I have. My CRKs are 59-60 (different steel) and I've never had a problem with their blades. I'd expect the CruWear to be harder and keep an edge longer.

 

[McFeeli]

I'd be interested in knowing this, too. Although, it won't change how I use the Manix I have. My CRKs are 59-60 (different steel) and I've never had a problem with their blades. I'd expect the CruWear to be harder and keep an edge longer.

See that's why it's interesting, haha. If CruWear can be pushed up to 64 and still be tougher than a lot of other cutlery steel at their prime HRC, it's gotta be great.

I haven't had a reason to sharpen mine yet, so that may give me some sort of idea when the time comes. I was just hoping someone had a definitive answer(or as close as you could get to it). I think Sal is our best hope. He's the man with all the answers, haha.

 

[on_the_edge]

In my experience, Spyderco keeps Rockwell hardness values and CATRA test results under wraps. Besides satisfying one's curiosity though, I don't think I see much value in that information being public. Is something at 62 HRC better than something at 59 HRC? It all depends. There is a lot more going on with steel, a LOT more, than simply HRC values. Can you tell that I am a strong believer in the tenets of "a need-to-know basis" and "more information is not always better"?

 

[Mo2]

In my experience, Spyderco keeps Rockwell hardness values and CATRA test results under wraps. Besides satisfying one's curiosity though, I don't think I see much value in that information being public. Is something at 62 HRC better than something at 59 HRC? It all depends. There is a lot more going on with steel, a LOT more, than simply HRC values. Can you tell that I am a strong believer in the tenets of "a need-to-know basis" and "more information is not always better"?

very good point. if you want the best heat treat available you should not be looking to mass produced knives. you need a custom knife with a HT to your spec and someone that can make that for you (not you persay, but anyone who wants).

HRC is often a range, so even if he did give you a range, you wouldnt know if yours is under or over without the actual test being done on there equipment.

whats the difference between HRC of 60 to 61 or 60 to 63, probably minor if anything. generally the higher the HRC the more brittle it is, but often times provides more edge retention but also harder to sharpen (this is just a general statement tho, and im not an expert by any stretch of the imagination).

 

[McFeeli]

In my experience, Spyderco keeps Rockwell hardness values and CATRA test results under wraps. Besides satisfying one's curiosity though, I don't think I see much value in that information being public. Is something at 62 HRC better than something at 59 HRC? It all depends. There is a lot more going on with steel, a LOT more, than simply HRC values. Can you tell that I am a strong believer in the tenets of "a need-to-know basis" and "more information is not always better"?

Well we both have different perspectives then, because I for one, like to know the small details. In some other steels I bet there isn't a big difference, but from what I've read(may not be entirely factual), is that there is a big difference in wear resistance and toughness in CruWear. At 59 HRC it's extremely tough, but wear resistance is subpar, while at 64 the toughness does go down, but wear resistance sky rockets. 5 HRC points can really change a steel.

I'd expect Spyderco would have settled somewhere in the middle around 62-63, but I don't know(which is why I'm asking, haha). It's not like it's a problem, I would just like to have a better idea on it. It's my first experience with this steel so I'm just trying to learn more about it.

 

[PeteyTwoPointOne]

Now...while I think MORE INFO > LESS INFO-- I can't see a whole lot of upside to publicly releasing hardness stats from Spyderco's position.

But I can see a whole lotta issues with a few steel geeks complaining that the HT on their knives "not being up to spec, as advertised."

To me: relative ease of sharpening > hardness....

In that sense, I HAVE withheld purchases because of high Rockwells and the prospect of the steel being a PITA to reprofile.

So, in my case, bragging about steel hardness COST the manufacturer a sale or two.

Not every ELU's like me <thank goodness, right?> but I can't see a huge selling point on public release of Rc stats from the advertising side. But I can see a lot of potential for complaint from a very vocal minority....cough, cough s35vn cough...cough

 

[McFeeli]

Now...while I think MORE INFO > LESS INFO-- I can't see a whole lot of upside to publicly releasing hardness stats from Spyderco's position.

But I can see a whole lotta issues with a few steel geeks complaining that the HT on their knives "not being up to spec, as advertised."

To me: relative ease of sharpening > hardness....

In that sense, I HAVE withheld purchases because of high Rockwells and the prospect of the steel being a PITA to reprofile.

So, in my case, bragging about steel hardness COST the manufacturer a sale or two.

Not every ELU's like me <thank goodness, right?> but I can't see a huge selling point on public release of Rc stats from the advertising side. But I can see a lot of potential for complaint from a very vocal minority....cough, cough s35vn cough...cough

I could understand that from a business point of view, and like I said I know Spyderco likes to keep some secrets which is ok because they actually do an amazing job and has yet to given me any reason to complain.

My thoughts were that someone(like me) was also interested and had the means of testing the steel themselves. If I don't find out it's ok, so far I'm loving my Manix and I have absolutely no reason not to use it.

 

[ToxicBot11]

Here's a older but interesting thread where a couple of us asked Sal to test the as of yet to be released Cruwear Millie he was carrying at the time, he said:

"Mine tested at 61.1
sal"
Post #81

http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/question-for-mr-sal.1099644/

It started with the op asking for a blade forum Manix 2 or Miliie then turned into a lot of good info about Cruwear.

 

[McFeeli]

Here's a older but interesting thread where a couple of us asked Sal to test the as of yet to be released Cruwear Millie he was carrying at the time, he said:

"Mine tested at 61.1
sal"
Post #81

http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/question-for-mr-sal.1099644/

It started with the op asking for a blade forum Manix 2 or Miliie then turned into a lot of good info about Cruwear.

Thanks for that, man. Something like that is exactly what I was looking for. I knew there had to be some info out there, I just wasn't able to find it myself. Who knows maybe this thread will turn into a lot of good information about CruWear too, haha.

 

[skwurll]

A lot of companies like to keep the numbers low for ease of care. At least we know, unlike many other companies, Spyderco has no problem with maxing out the heat treat on some steels - they are more like a custom maker with their heat treating than any other production knife co. I know of.

 

[McFeeli]

A lot of companies like to keep the numbers low for ease of care. At least we know, unlike many other companies, Spyderco has no problem with maxing out the heat treat on some steels - they are more like a custom maker with their heat treating than any other production knife co. I know of.

I agree with you on Spyderco trying to get the best out of the steel, and seeing as the Military/Paramilitary CruWear Sprint runs were how long ago, I'd think them able/willing to try to push it a bit further. It's all speculation, but until otherwise told there's a chance that's what they did(and a chance they kept it the same).

In my opinion anything above 60 for CruWear would be great in a folder. Below 60 HRC would be better suited for a fixed blade.

 

[DRLyman]

Finally got caught up on this thread. Lots of good information.

I had the bright idea of going and getting a magnifying glass. Looking at the edge on the Manix, I see a chip. It could have been there since I received the knife. I haven't done anything crazy with it like accidentally hitting some metal when using it. I'm going to sharpen the blade to get rid of it and keep an eye on it to see if it happens again.

 

[McFeeli]

Finally got caught up on this thread. Lots of good information.

I had the bright idea of going and getting a magnifying glass. Looking at the edge on the Manix, I see a chip. It could have been there since I received the knife. I haven't done anything crazy with it like accidentally hitting some metal when using it. I'm going to sharpen the blade to get rid of it and keep an eye on it to see if it happens again.

Is it a decent sized chip or pretty small? If it's small it may have just slipped through unnoticed. I wouldn't expect it to chip by cutting normal material, but I can't stand by that as fact.

I had to cut through some thick cardboard the other day and haven't noticed any major blade issues. It dulled the apex on the edge ever so slightly, but it held up great. Still shaving sharp off the factory edge, really want to drop the angle a wee bit, but I can't seem to bring myself to sharpen an already sharp blade. That time'll come sooner or later.

I'm really interested in your experience in sharpening it, though. That should give us another piece to the puzzle, haha.

 

[DRLyman]

Is it a decent sized chip or pretty small? If it's small it may have just slipped through unnoticed. I wouldn't expect it to chip by cutting normal material, but I can't stand by that as fact.

I had to cut through some thick cardboard the other day and haven't noticed any major blade issues. It dulled the apex on the edge ever so slightly, but it held up great. Still shaving sharp off the factory edge, really want to drop the angle a wee bit, but I can't seem to bring myself to sharpen an already sharp blade. That time'll come sooner or later.

I'm really interested in your experience in sharpening it, though. That should give us another piece to the puzzle, haha.

It's barely noticeable. I wouldn't have noticed it if it wasn't for that magnifying glass. Can't really even tell it's there with my finger nail. I'm thinking it should be pretty easy to get rid of it. I'll probably sharpen it this weekend. I just got a new sharpening system, so I'll get a feel for it on some of my cheaper knives first. The Kershaw Link will be the one I try it on first.

 

[gunmike1]

It's barely noticeable. I wouldn't have noticed it if it wasn't for that magnifying glass. Can't really even tell it's there with my finger nail. I'm thinking it should be pretty easy to get rid of it. I'll probably sharpen it this weekend. I just got a new sharpening system, so I'll get a feel for it on some of my cheaper knives first. The Kershaw Link will be the one I try it on first.

Many times new knives have weakened steel at the edge from power sharpening. It generally takes a few sharpenings to get to good steel if the edge was overheated from the factory.

 

[DRLyman]

Many times new knives have weakened steel at the edge from power sharpening. It generally takes a few sharpenings to get to good steel if the edge was overheated from the factory.

Thanks for the info. That's good to know and makes me feel better about the blade.