Different light and background photo setup

re RL. very kewl RL. Now you can come over and teach me before we photograph your next knives. Neat background. Where did it come from?

Maybe Coop will give more info to help in this process for you. Glad you guys are all having fun with this process.
 
Hey thanks Murray !! I do appreciate the tips and the time ya spent on my photo.
Greg
 
Hey Murray,

Was that an invitation ;)

Actually, I can teach you what I know but I don't think you'd be happy...what I know is VERY basic and time consuming...plus it would be easiest if you photograph on a white background :)

mckgreg, how's this??

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RL
 
RL's on the right track with the background. (The WRONG direction but the right track...;))

I played with that knife and came up with no better clarity than Murray did. Murray wins. :) What I did try and was helpful was to cut and paste it onto another background and then rotate it to a much more appealing position. I blurred tha background and gave it a shadow for depth appeal. After all was said and done I still hated it, so I stopped, gave up and deleted it. :(

First thing's first: the knife needs more dimension. It is a dead-flat straight-on shot with no angular view. It's 2-D no matter how you dress it up. It needs a better background (lighter), because the camera's need to adjust the lighting to the dark background washed out what subtle color it has. And for clarity I would want to work with a raw image larger than 640. That image of Murray's I reworked still looks awful after starting with only a 640 width image. Murray, your second version is much better than mine. Hat's off if you started with the 640 to clean up. :D

There is no magic in this, just careful preparation to start the process.

Coop
 
How could I describe this and then pull out. So I jumped on it again with a few tricks:

Background with lens effect, pasted the image on it, and gave it a shadow, plus I drew some of the color out of it (oversaturated it). Maybe not close, but it needed something.

Lastly I 'burned' the blade and engraving to darken them up a bit.

All of this took me about 6-8 minutes! It helps being familiar with your tools.

Coop

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Originally posted by Blade747
RL's on the right track with the background. (The WRONG direction but the right track...;))
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Hey, if it were up to me, I'd rip out that pearl and put on some nice canvas Micarta :)


Originally posted by Blade747
First thing's first: the knife needs more dimension. It is a dead-flat straight-on shot with no angular view.
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Click to expand...

Coop, I have had that "discussion" with Murray so many times...I actually PREFER to have knife pics in the horizontal...in fact, I always use Photoshop to rotate pics to get them in that position...while it may not be as "artistic" I feel that it gives you the best impression of what the knife looks like in real life...also, it allows you to compare "apples with apples"...I go so far as to put life-size knife pics next to each other so that I can get a feel for the size.
 
Hey, Coop, that was very good -- the Pease with new background etc. you got the contrast up and more detail in the pearl than I can get.

Could you do a step by step detailed explanation of what you did?

Can you reverse the vignette (lens effect) so that the light area is in the lower L instead of upper right. The eye goes to lightest/brightest are of the image.

I was also hoping that we would get some posts by others with the simplified images from camera and minor adjustments they have made so come on guys, show us what you are doing so far.
 
Could you do a step by step detailed explanation of what you did?
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It don't much matter, unless you have Photoshop. And even YOU don't Murray, so it's not important. Yes, the lighting can be adjusted any number of ways. That's one of the amazing things about a program this intense. Also why it costs so darn much!

Murray brings out a good point about lighting, and how the eye perceives it and tracks it. It's a subconscious process we utilize and the better images affect us without knowing why. Having said that, the above image would look incorrect with the lighting coming in from the bottom. Our world does not bottom-light anything! I may be wrong...

One of the things I am very keen on and try to maintain is to have a consistent 'global' lighting for any insets or multiple views. Of course we can rotate and position these insets and features any which way, but it all only makes sense if the lighting appears to be consistent.

I make sure to pre-think my shots in regard to where I might position the inset on my finished photo. If I have knife running diagonal along the image and I want to display the fileworked spine horizontally on top, I position the knife in the SAME position it will be displayed while I photograph it. Especially important for a 'closed view' inset.

Having the ability to add in a shadow really helps the process, too. It's all in the details...

Coop
 
ok Coop, do you photograph the background and then save it to be a first step object to paste the knife onto?

Did some more looking around my Photo Express 3 and think I have figured out how to select an area and then make adjustments to that area alone. I'm still having problems making an exact selection. I suppose I have to figure out how to clone and area after when the selection is not done perfectly.

Any tips on doing the background image? I'd imagine it would be best to try to use a copy stand so one can photograph straight down on the background.

I also have to poke around and see if there is a vignette tool. I have found a "spotlight" but not sure if that will do just what I want.
 
Murray, in this case that was exactly what I did. Although I almost never use a different background than actual one the main knife rests on. In the above case it needed something different. You have done the same thing with other surreal landscape images, too. You have the tools.

I don't have any tips for other backgrounds because it's unfamiliar territory. There is a whole WORLD of opportunity out there, for sure. A lot of Point Seven's work is done this way; paste a knife image onto a digital background. But not all af their work. They tend to utilize it more often than any other photographers I've seen.

One tip for anyone who is trying to cut and paste, is to blow the image up to 200%-400% or more. Once you get to this size your work becomes much easier, and the 'cutout' looks more realistic, because you are capturing it closest to the true border.

What's a vignette?

Coop
 
ok, I can see where I will have to create a folder of backgrounds that are photos of the ones I'm using. This is probably easier than it seems but so far I'm plodding along like someone lost in the desert. I'd prefer to be lost in dessert.

Actually, I don't have the skill of which you speak because the knife images with the surreal landscapes are actually portions of an image that I have photographed the knife against. Wish I was that talented.

so you suggest just magnifying the image 200-400% before using the selection tool? Will have to look into that one. Hope my program allows that option. Once I learn how, it would appear that there are a lot of things it will do but the Help file just does not do a good job of explaining this fact.

a vignette is the darkened area around an image. Generally it is a complete circle or elipse radiating from light to dar from the center area. It is used to tone down perimiter areas of the image to keep th eye concentrated on the image. The spotlight tool is similar but I just have not found a method to give me the right look even though I have played with it on some images--primarily scenics.
 
You guys are amazing, with these experienced ideas to try.

I'll toss in some knife support ideas. I have experimented with clay to support a knife off the background.

Also, you can take a plumber's adjustable plier, put rubber bands on the handle to maintain closing pressure, then, with protected jaws, affix the knife to it. This assembly can hold the knife in unusual positions and have the side effect of eliminating shadow or doing some creative shadow detail. The assembly itself can be supported by blocks and such to increase available positioning. Only thing is, the portion that the jaws is gripping is not included in the picture.

This is good for bringing out details like backspacers or special filing or blade spine work.
 
Good idea's Boink. I don't have any clay, BUT..... I do the same thing with masking tape all lumped up inside out on so many knives. Sometimes you just have to get that blade tilted up an eighth inch or so to get the right refraction. You knew this. :)

The plier trick sounds good. I have been doing that occasionally with my 'Human Thumb and Forefinger Soft Forceps' (HTFSF) tool. ;)

See ya!

Coop
 
easiest item to use to support the knife if you can't get the right angle when it is flat is Plastecine which is available at art stores or childrens toy stores. Inexpensive and enough there to last a life time. Don't need much for a knife. I just press some onto my multiple outlet lighting bar or onto the A/C adapter for the Nikon 995. It sticks just fine and is then always close at hand.
 
Good information guys....thanks! :)


"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
 
This has just been a fantastic exchange of ideas and tips. My name is Rich, and back on Feb. 9th around page two or so of this thread,I chimed in to say "Thanks" to guys like Murray,Coop,Boink,etc. for posting their photos. We all enjoy looking at pictures of fine knives around here, but having guys go into such detail about how they actually did the photo's was so interesting. Anyway, in my post on the 9th I mentioned I was headed to the hardware store to build a "Murray Box" and buy a digital camera, and have a go at it. I am a complete beginner with cameras, no prior experience at all. In fact, I even manage to take lousy pictures with the little disposable cameras that are supposed to be "idiot proof".

With the photo that RL posted of the homemade light tent, and a little private instruction via email from Murray White, the tent went together in less than 1/2 hour. I bought some "daylight" bulbs, read the owners manual of my camera, and took off. Guess what guys? It works...With a little practice, I'm taking some pictures that I am very happy with.

I went into that background a little because also in my earlier post I mentioned that I was going to share those pictures with you all when I started. I'm getting a web photo hosting site today or tomorrow and plan to put up a picture of the homemade light box and the results of some of my very first pictures. Then some that I have taken with three or four days worth of practice..

I hope with over 50+ posts, and over 1100 views that people are still looking at this thread. I have a quick question for Coop and Murray if you're out there....Coop, are the photoshop enhancements you described in one of your posts availible on PS 5.0 LE? And Murray, how far from the light tent and a what angle(s) are your light bars??? Thanks for reading this long post guys, but I wanted you to know to check back and look for my next one so you could check out the light rig, and look at some of my photos...By the way, even if my photos aren't so hot, I do have some cool knives......Rich
 
Rich, I couldn't be happier for you! There's nothing *I* like more than good clean pics of great knives. Like anything, it takes some instruction, but all-in-all it's not all that hard.

I have a copy of PS LE 5.0 and it will do so many things. The only thing that it is missing is the 'dropped shadowing' effect. I don't know why they gave the LE program so many OTHER bells and whistles, and not that all-important feature (for me). There is another program: PhotoShop Elements. And I believe that has this feature. Regardless, PS/LE will get you going easily. I highly recommend it.

Can't wait to see your pics. Thanks for the kind comments and taking notice.

Coop
 
Here's the picture of the light box that I mentioned I would post. It goes up and down in 10 minutes or so and is really quite sturdy. The spandex I used is a stark white, and tightly streched on the back panel. I have a total of five lights, but have never used that many. My lights are attached to a "high tech support system" which consists of two bar stools and a 2x6...Actually it works very well. The lights have "clamp" type fasteners with long goosenecks. I can move the stools back and forth to get the lights closer or farther away from the tent, and with the clamps and bending necks I can get any distance, angle or direction there is. I usually have my knife handles pointing towards the side with the foil, which reflects the tent light back softly. So far, I have used very little front lighting, mainly just to experiment a little. I have a set of 5000K daylight bulbs, and a set of 6500K bulbs as well. I'm using the 6500K ones mostly.

Total cost of materials, and one set of daylight CFB, was $81.00 total. I had a little help making it, (Thanks again Murray..), and I would be glad to return the favor to any of you. I'm sure Murray would as well, (if you buy him a piece of pie...) Have fun... I'm going to follow up with some pictures from my first night using this, and a couple of shots with about 3 days or so of practice..Digital is so fun because if your photos turn out crummy, just delete it and try again..Rich Slaughter
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