Email from India

Bill Martino

Bill Martino

Joined
Mar 5, 1999
Messages
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I received some email from India this morning, very nice and very polite which said in essence this: We know you have strong ties with Nepal but please do not forget your neighbor, India. We handcraft some very nice items in silk, brass, leather and more and having lived in Nepal you must know that India could use a little help, too. Please consider us.

My first reaction was to reply with a polite thank you but no thanks. Then I got to thinking about it. God knows India, the world's largest republic, has its share of poverty, disease, squalor and starvation and certainly can use all the help it can get. Why slam the door in their face?

So, I wrote back saying this: Thank you for your message. I am always pleased to hear from people back "home." You already know that because of strong family ties my first allegiance is to Nepal, however, I would be willing to "consider" a few items that India makes that are not made in Nepal.

Since we here in this forum are a strange web-knit group of strangers who are friends, a most unusual fraternity, I solicit your ideas, comments, and suggestions in this matter. What should we do? What items should we consider if any? Are we being unfaithful to the needy in Nepal or do we have room to extend to others?

I request that everybody who reads this please take the time to post a reply. Many heads are better than one Heineken-soaked one. I know many will have good and astute ideas and I would like to hear them. Thanks.

Bill
 
The problem is that both India and Pakistan are not known for producing quality products and it will take alot more to convinve people that there is a quality product comming out of india. But if you were be able to get quality products from India, there may be a good market for such.
 
Thanks, Cobalt. There are some craftsmen in India who make good stuff but you never see it offered here -- just like the khukuris from India. I have seen khukuris made in India that are top drawer stuff and hand one in my own collection. The problem is finding the good stuff. Same with Nepal. If I had to go through dealers in Kathmandu like everybody else it would be a hit and miss proposition, mostly missing. If I can find a way to get to the real craftsmen in India we might be able to offer something. It will not be easy but it is worth consideration, I think.

Bill
 
Thanks, Cobalt. There are some craftsmen in India who make good stuff but you never see it offered here -- just like the khukuris from India. I have seen khukuris made in India that are top drawer stuff and have one in my own collection. The problem is finding the good stuff. Same with Nepal. If I had to go through dealers in Kathmandu like everybody else it would be a hit and miss proposition, mostly missing, and the profit goes to the dealer, not the guy who makes the stuff. If I can find a way to get to the real craftsmen in India we might be able to offer something. It will not be easy but it is worth consideration, I think.

Bill
 
Well, I am sure that if you found a top quality source of Indian Khukuri's, they may sell.
 
One thing to consider (on the subject of khukuris) is that even though you may try to market them as different khukuris (Indian vs Nepal) odds are they are going to get confused eventually.

Lets say you market an Indian khukuri which is a decent performer but not up to the standards of the Nepal ones. Now you sell this as a working khukuri but at a much reduced price and with a different warrently (?) as it cannot of course achieve the same performance levels.

Now no matter how clear you try to be, people are going to get these mixed up and thinking that all your khukuris are the standard of the Indian ones. Maybe not necessarily your direct customer base but surely the people they interact with. A fair amount of business comes from word of mouth and its something you might want to consider.

Now if its something totally different that is coming from India (not khukuris) its not as much of a problem.

-Cliff

 
Any imported products from India would have to be of equal quality and no less. That is of utmost importance. If not, business would suffer because you would now become just another importer of cheap Inian made products.

Think about this Bill. Would you be willing to offer the same guarantee. If you could find Indian Kami's that do the same quality work, that would be a great find. I personnaly believe that importing to India large quantities of condoms would be the best move. They have brought the poverty onto themselves because of their lack of control. Of course the children always are the ones who end up apaying the price.
 
Thinking a true not to thick and quality khyber might sell pretty well. I am curious as to what they have to offer. Maybe a good time to pick up so new products.


Regards,


Tom Carey
 
I am sure well crafted items are made in Indian. Old trades such as black smithing is much more common there than North America.

The problem as you know is finding who consistantly makes high quality items. You have experience with Nepal and have family ties there. Without the qualitity control arrangements I as a customer would not know what I am getting until it may be too late.

Myself I would love to buy Indian crafted items from Bill, but not under the same name as his khukuri's (Himalayan Imports). Bill has educated us on the history and objectives of Himalayan Imports. I do not want to see that changed.

However, if Bill wants to sell other knives (khukuri's included) or goods such as wallets from India I would be glad to do business with him. It would be important to make a distinction between the khukuris that follow the H.I. standards and those that do not.

As a customer, as far as knives go, one has to sharpen them a few times to get a feeling of its steel qualitiy. The other alternative is to know the makers well as Himalayan Imports has done.

Will
 
Well...for a number of reasons I wouldn't want an Indian Khukuri even if the quality was the same. The "intangible links to a lineage" such as the Ghurka is a serious factor.

HOWEVER, swords are another matter. Bill, I'd recommend going to www.swordforum.com and in the *magazine* area (including some back issues), go look up everything you can on the "Paul Chen project". There's a Taiwanese guy very similar to you managing a sword production facility on mainland China. His first product was the "Shinto Katana" and with street prices under $500 it was an absolute breakthrough on a combat-ready (barely) Japanese-pattern sword. Kris Cutlery does the same thing in the Philippines.

There's already Indian swords coming to the US but the quality *sucks* just like the Khukuris. If you could change that, if you could offer top-notch western and eastern pattern swords in competition with Paul Chen it'd be *killer*. You are WELL qualified to do this and it's an area where your current Nepalese sources are...well, to be kindly, they're pretty deficient. Stuff like the Kora has a grip best described as "a nightmare" (what the HELL is with that huge pommel disk!?) and if the blade is as tough and thick as the Khukuris the balance is gonna be horrendous. Never mind the "can't stab" problem.

Now, in reading about Paul Chen's stuff you'll realize there's some problems. Nobody knows quite how they're built, there's toughness issues, the whole production process is "shrouded in mystery". Something NOBODY can accuse you of!

Don't miss this article:
http://swordforum.com/swords/nihonto/manchurian-candidates.html
and
http://swordforum.com/finalpoint/mar99.html

The other main sword sources are the "Gaijintos", a self-parody of the technical term "Nihonto" for a Japanese-origin sword. Some examples:
http://www.mvforge.com (Howard Clark)
http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dffblde/ (Randall Graham)

Bugei is a big buyer and re-marketer of Chen blades:
http://www.bugei.com

You'll need somebody who understands how a true combat sword should balance and handle. Dunno who but...I'd be willing to bet it'd be possible to hook you up with a Bujinkan Sensei well-trained in genuine Japanese fighting arts. Somebody like that could also help with the requisit test-cutting.

If you can sell a GOOD Japanese pattern sword for about $350ish that won't break, balances well and has a WELL documented construction history it'll sell. Even without a "pretty hamon" like the Chen stuff is aiming for.

Come to think, I've *got* a genuine pre-1864 Edo period Katana blade...complete with the "battle bulge" tip construction NOT found on Chen stuff or modern Nihontos. It's only in fair shape, it's badly in need of a polish...it was stolen from me over a year ago by (it turns out) an ex-roommate who allowed about 2mm of tip to rust, dammit. It can be polished out, but I don't have the cash to have it done properly right now. It's a 26.5" classic blade, PERFECT for copying...if you're interested, I'd be willing to loan it even for shipment to India/Nepal to act as a pattern. Duplicate that in well-tempered 5160 and hell YES you'd have a product!

Jim March
 
I probably better get this into the discussion.

Khukuris from India are out. Also, anything that is made in Nepal with any degree of quality is out.

Charity begins a home and Nepal is my second home.

HOWEVER, if I could get some high quality cottage industry products -- leather gloves, purses, something as simple as silk scarves, a handcrafted brass replica of the Taj Mahal, anything that was done not in a factory I'd consider.

In keeping with HI policy I would want names and photos (to add to the 10,000 pix file) of the craftsmen. I would want to be assured with a high degree of satisfaction that the craftsmen were paid more by us than any other buyer.

These are basic groundrules.

Bill
 
Well...maybe one obvious question comes up: could the KAMIS do a Katana using a genuine as a pattern? In 5160 Spring steel with a differencial temper that'd be worth a damn?

'Cuz I'd MUCH rather have one 'o them versus a Paul Chen. If they can do it, the offer to loan the "genuine article" still stands.

As to India...hmmm. With YOU and yours overseeing quality control our thinking as to "what they can reasonably produce" goes WAY up. Stuff I wouldn't normally trust to Indian craftsmanship like, say, bulletproof vests becomes thinkable. And yes, Bill, that's a high complement
biggrin.gif
.

Leather goods comes to mind. Motorcycle jackets that look good enough for daily wear but have discrete hard-impact armor panels in Kydex, injection-molded-nylon or similar? I know there's a HUGE leather-goods industry over there...LOL, not run by Hindus I guess. As the biker population ages, many are getting smart about armor...check out a thread in Community "I know what you did last Monday" for my (very good) experiences falling off my bike twice now with extreme armor.

Denim bluejeans done up "heavy duty" with barely-noticable armor inserts at the knees, that would be KILLER.

Jim March
 
Bill,

I have always thought the sari to be particularly effective in bringing out a woman’s beauty. But I suspect most western women don’t know how to put one on. I would be interested in purchasing a sari for my wife, if it came with clear instructions for wrapping it.
 
Jim. Everything duly logged. We will play a waiting game and see where this thing goes but having taken a couple of falls years ago that would kill me today I can appreciate your imput.

Howard. I think the sari is one of the most beautiful, feminine, sexy dresses there is in existence. Yangdu has one but seldom wears it here -- feels a bit self conscious however, she does know how to wrap herself in it. Do you remember the saris hanging from the rooftops in Nepal? Especially in Kathmandu. Wafting in the breeze, bright reds, pinks, blues, yellows. Always thought this was such a beautiful sight.

Bill
 
I recall the story of the Indian gent who told his wife to return that new, expensive dress..."After all, it's better to be safe than Sari!".

Errrr...hmmm. Needs work
biggrin.gif


Jim March
 
Because of recent history,I`Ve no intrest in supporting India.

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