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- May 5, 2001
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- 919
Anyone have any experience with the Mach 1? I think that I may go for it, but I'm kinda new to knives, but think that that may be a treat.
Emerson Mach 1?
- Thread starter AnklePocket
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2000
- Messages
- 631
Hi Anklepocket, Welcome to the forums!
If you do a search here on "emerson", you'll have enough reading material to last you for about 3 days, and that's before you even make the journey over to the emerson forum here on BF.com.
I like emersons, the way they look, the WAVE feature etc. I don't like chisel grinds, except for specific uses. I think the Mach 1 comes with the emerson V grind, which is a slightly modified chisel grind. For a general utility knife, i would look elsewhere.
Your best bet is to find a knife shop in your area where you can look at a few different knives, and decide what you like.
Again, welcome.
James
------------------
My Home Page (writings)
The beast we are, lest the beast we become.
If you do a search here on "emerson", you'll have enough reading material to last you for about 3 days, and that's before you even make the journey over to the emerson forum here on BF.com.
I like emersons, the way they look, the WAVE feature etc. I don't like chisel grinds, except for specific uses. I think the Mach 1 comes with the emerson V grind, which is a slightly modified chisel grind. For a general utility knife, i would look elsewhere.
Your best bet is to find a knife shop in your area where you can look at a few different knives, and decide what you like.
Again, welcome.
James
------------------
My Home Page (writings)
The beast we are, lest the beast we become.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2001
- Messages
- 3,709
I owned a Mach 1. While I lile the overall design, I got rid of it for a few reasons. Number One: Overpriced/Overhyped. Number Two: Dull. It was as dull as a cheap knock off knife. My model had a Chromium Nitrate coating and sharpended only on one side, but it was not sharp at all. Also, the coating wore off the blade just below the thumb disc after 1 day of cycling the knife. I didn't think the oils on my thumb would affect the silver coating like that.
Hi!
As a total Emerson fan i just wanted to comment on Mr. El Cid's comments.
The chisel ground blades tend to not feel as sharp as conventional grinds, but they cut like crazy
i don't like chisel grinds though, i'm an ass in sharpening'em.
I've had a commander with the coating, and i don't think that the coating wear that easy, rather the opposite, if it wore that easy it was a lemon, but i did notice that the finish did get strange "smears" from touching it with my hands, they came off easy but i thought that the finish was damaged at first too.
Don't own a Mach, handled one breifly, like the shape/feel but i miss the wave on it.
Just my input!
all knives aren't for all people.
------------------
Be well!/Jonas aka 2Sharp
"Who want fulfillment? -denial lasts forever"
Total Emerson knives freak!!! Usual Suspect wanna-be...
The coolest bar in the world: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Camp/8373/index.html
My knives!
As a total Emerson fan i just wanted to comment on Mr. El Cid's comments.
The chisel ground blades tend to not feel as sharp as conventional grinds, but they cut like crazy
I've had a commander with the coating, and i don't think that the coating wear that easy, rather the opposite, if it wore that easy it was a lemon, but i did notice that the finish did get strange "smears" from touching it with my hands, they came off easy but i thought that the finish was damaged at first too.
Don't own a Mach, handled one breifly, like the shape/feel but i miss the wave on it.
Just my input!
------------------
Be well!/Jonas aka 2Sharp
"Who want fulfillment? -denial lasts forever"
Total Emerson knives freak!!! Usual Suspect wanna-be...
The coolest bar in the world: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Camp/8373/index.html
My knives!
- Joined
- May 26, 2000
- Messages
- 1,922
I own a Mach-I w/ black ti coating and serrations. Bought "used" but apparently unused. Haven't owned it long, so haven't done any cutting tests or used much yet. So comments are limited to design, fit/finish, etc... at this moment.
Price:
======
I've seen retail prices from $240 to $288 (?) and those are of course absurd, but don't matter. "Street" prices on web are $120 to $140 range. $120 is about $20 overpriced in my book, but not that extreme (comparisons are to Spyderco and Benchmade). Buy one used.
QA/QC:
======
Emerson has QA/QC problems on some knives, not all, stuff they shouldn't let out of the shop, and they rely/expect those that know better to send them back for repair, which apparently Emerson will do.
You may have to handle 2 or 3 to find one with a good lockup, or you may get lucky via mail order on first try. If you like the design, keep trying if you get a poor one first time out.
Grind:
======
The grind is a V-grind (flat ground symmetrically on both sides) and if done by hand is excellent. But final edge is only put on one side (the wrong side for right handed people and utility use, on the left side of blade) and is obviously by hand, so I wonder if the V-grind isn't done by machine ... jobbed out. Doesn't matter really.
Edge:
=====
Mine was not very sharp out of box, and the angle was kind of steep (40 degrees?). I reprofiled the edge on a Lansky to 30 degrees, and this really took a long, long time and a lot of work with diamond stones...why I'm not sure as hardness target stated to be Rc57-59. Just lots of metal to remove, all on one side.
The knives appear to be hand sharpened at Emerson, as right near the tip, the last 5/16" of an inch, the angle got really steep (45-50 degrees?) and was so steep that it couldn't reasonably be reprofiled to 30 degrees without removing a tremendous amount of metal. So, it's now very sharp except for that last tidbit at point, so I have more work to do with another sharpener, probably Spydie 204.
Serrations:
===========
Serrations are very pointy, more like Spyderco and less rounded like Benchmade, so they are good for aggressive ripping cuts where you don't mind if it hangs up a bit (self defense again comes to mind).
Design:
=======
I like the Mach-I design for what it is... a self defense knife. It has a great, very secure overall grip, very deep recess as an index finger guard...excellent for a folder. I'd rather it was available with a 4" blade, as I bought it strictly for self defense carry. I'd rather the handle to blade ratio was a little better, but the Mach-I is better than SPECWAR in this regard.
The wrong-sided final edge makes it a bit annoying to use as a utility/daily carry knife for a right-hander, and I don't like serrations for utility generally, just defense, but I knew that going in and so don't carry daily, just when I venture into the city...purely self defense carry (secure grip, stout knife, stout point, serrations for slashing), and I own it partly out of curiosity and because I like the overall handle design and look.
I just have to post this FAQ from the Emerson page. You may draw your own conclusions about why they left the grind on the left side:
"Being the knifemaker who brought the chisel grind to worldwide recognition, we are often asked; Why do you put the grind on the opposite side of a traditional Japanese Chef's knife? The answer is simple....We are not making chef's knives. Our knives are hard knives meant for hard users. We do not cut many tomatoes. Our tests and those of a major government agency determined that there was no difference between right and left side grinds for use as a tool or weapon. The left side was chosen for purposes of visual cue and reference."
"Simple answers" can reveal a lot.
Clip is mounted such that a bunch of the knife sticks out of your front pocket... almost a full inch! ... which I don't care for, others may like it since more is exposed to grab for a "lightning fast draw". There are easy ways to design around this protrusion, even assuming the angled butt of this handle needed to stay that way for aesthetics, but it would have required a custom clip for minimum protrusion from pocket, and that adds to cost when you try to stay standard on clips, so there you have a cost concession I guess.
Knife is tip-up carry, which some like, I'm neutral on this one since the Mach-I (or at least my vintage 2000) has a double ball detent (one on each side of the blade, kind of unique) to keep blade in handle during carry (plus for righties, it's tip up but blade is against outside edge of pocket if you carry front/right, so it stays put).
Grind is such that the tip is very stout, and this is consistent with a self defense piece... excellent for a folder. You get stout without an annoying (to me) tanto grind... Mach-I has round belly which I much prefer.
Design is fairly similar to the EKI Police Utility Knife (PUK). Both have very secure grips, which I like a lot. I carry a PUK (how do you pronounce that?
) in my car as a defense or rescue piece (again, serrated).
(I like the LaGriffe for a tiny, lightweight, fairly secure grip slasher neck knife, but little else in the product line interests me for various reasons, mostly design issues. Well, I'd grab a CQC8 in production clothes for curiosity anyway...great grip for defense also).
Fit/Finish:
===========
Fit/finish is anywhere from mediocre to good depending on where you look. The liners appear to be cut out with a bandsaw and not finished up much at all...not sharp-jagged, but just really rough compared with Sypderco and Benchmade (this seems an obvious spot for water or laser cut parts, but for all I know it is laser and just left rough). And as usual for Emerson, the black finish has worn off the pivot screw and the clip screws (amazing they haven't solved that problem yet...makes it look worn/used waay before it should).
The scales are cut so that they hang over/past the liners by a couple thousandths I'd guess. Pretty obvious they don't even try to make them flush with some kind of fine grit belt or anything as a final step. Mass assembly seems to be the idea, no final fit/finish step. But scales are radiused on edges which I like very much. Overall very comfortable and secure in-hand...very good here and maybe the best point of the knife is the handle design IMHO.
The lockup on mine happens to be pretty good, good enough to keep. And, Emerson has copied the radiused tang feature from the Spyderco Terzuola collaboration, so had Benchmade, and this is a very good idea that seems to yield better results without excessive hand fitting for liner locks... good idea.
~~~~~~~~
Overall, a cool looking design that begs for a few design improvements and better attention to fabrication, assembly, and blade grind. To me, this is expressly for self defense and not really for utility (remember ... "we don't cut many tomatoes"! Indeed.) A carried-sometimes, used-little knife for me personally. YMMV.
If they made the BM 710 with a thicker blade that had more tip strength, that'd be my fav self defense carry, I suspect.
But the Mach-I gets a lot right for self defense and doesn't resort to some of the finger grooves and/or excessively deep index grooves that make the SIFU (too long to be legal) and Kasper Folding Fighter (available with cheap steel, & just too wide) less than "gotta own it" for me.
Well, that was at least two cents worth. If I got the answer wrong by being less than effusive, post this question on the Emerson Forum for a guarantee of a more favorable response.
[This message has been edited by rdangerer (edited 05-07-2001).]
Price:
======
I've seen retail prices from $240 to $288 (?) and those are of course absurd, but don't matter. "Street" prices on web are $120 to $140 range. $120 is about $20 overpriced in my book, but not that extreme (comparisons are to Spyderco and Benchmade). Buy one used.
QA/QC:
======
Emerson has QA/QC problems on some knives, not all, stuff they shouldn't let out of the shop, and they rely/expect those that know better to send them back for repair, which apparently Emerson will do.
You may have to handle 2 or 3 to find one with a good lockup, or you may get lucky via mail order on first try. If you like the design, keep trying if you get a poor one first time out.
Grind:
======
The grind is a V-grind (flat ground symmetrically on both sides) and if done by hand is excellent. But final edge is only put on one side (the wrong side for right handed people and utility use, on the left side of blade) and is obviously by hand, so I wonder if the V-grind isn't done by machine ... jobbed out. Doesn't matter really.
Edge:
=====
Mine was not very sharp out of box, and the angle was kind of steep (40 degrees?). I reprofiled the edge on a Lansky to 30 degrees, and this really took a long, long time and a lot of work with diamond stones...why I'm not sure as hardness target stated to be Rc57-59. Just lots of metal to remove, all on one side.
The knives appear to be hand sharpened at Emerson, as right near the tip, the last 5/16" of an inch, the angle got really steep (45-50 degrees?) and was so steep that it couldn't reasonably be reprofiled to 30 degrees without removing a tremendous amount of metal. So, it's now very sharp except for that last tidbit at point, so I have more work to do with another sharpener, probably Spydie 204.
Serrations:
===========
Serrations are very pointy, more like Spyderco and less rounded like Benchmade, so they are good for aggressive ripping cuts where you don't mind if it hangs up a bit (self defense again comes to mind).
Design:
=======
I like the Mach-I design for what it is... a self defense knife. It has a great, very secure overall grip, very deep recess as an index finger guard...excellent for a folder. I'd rather it was available with a 4" blade, as I bought it strictly for self defense carry. I'd rather the handle to blade ratio was a little better, but the Mach-I is better than SPECWAR in this regard.
The wrong-sided final edge makes it a bit annoying to use as a utility/daily carry knife for a right-hander, and I don't like serrations for utility generally, just defense, but I knew that going in and so don't carry daily, just when I venture into the city...purely self defense carry (secure grip, stout knife, stout point, serrations for slashing), and I own it partly out of curiosity and because I like the overall handle design and look.
I just have to post this FAQ from the Emerson page. You may draw your own conclusions about why they left the grind on the left side:
"Being the knifemaker who brought the chisel grind to worldwide recognition, we are often asked; Why do you put the grind on the opposite side of a traditional Japanese Chef's knife? The answer is simple....We are not making chef's knives. Our knives are hard knives meant for hard users. We do not cut many tomatoes. Our tests and those of a major government agency determined that there was no difference between right and left side grinds for use as a tool or weapon. The left side was chosen for purposes of visual cue and reference."
"Simple answers" can reveal a lot.
Clip is mounted such that a bunch of the knife sticks out of your front pocket... almost a full inch! ... which I don't care for, others may like it since more is exposed to grab for a "lightning fast draw". There are easy ways to design around this protrusion, even assuming the angled butt of this handle needed to stay that way for aesthetics, but it would have required a custom clip for minimum protrusion from pocket, and that adds to cost when you try to stay standard on clips, so there you have a cost concession I guess.
Knife is tip-up carry, which some like, I'm neutral on this one since the Mach-I (or at least my vintage 2000) has a double ball detent (one on each side of the blade, kind of unique) to keep blade in handle during carry (plus for righties, it's tip up but blade is against outside edge of pocket if you carry front/right, so it stays put).
Grind is such that the tip is very stout, and this is consistent with a self defense piece... excellent for a folder. You get stout without an annoying (to me) tanto grind... Mach-I has round belly which I much prefer.
Design is fairly similar to the EKI Police Utility Knife (PUK). Both have very secure grips, which I like a lot. I carry a PUK (how do you pronounce that?
(I like the LaGriffe for a tiny, lightweight, fairly secure grip slasher neck knife, but little else in the product line interests me for various reasons, mostly design issues. Well, I'd grab a CQC8 in production clothes for curiosity anyway...great grip for defense also).
Fit/Finish:
===========
Fit/finish is anywhere from mediocre to good depending on where you look. The liners appear to be cut out with a bandsaw and not finished up much at all...not sharp-jagged, but just really rough compared with Sypderco and Benchmade (this seems an obvious spot for water or laser cut parts, but for all I know it is laser and just left rough). And as usual for Emerson, the black finish has worn off the pivot screw and the clip screws (amazing they haven't solved that problem yet...makes it look worn/used waay before it should).
The scales are cut so that they hang over/past the liners by a couple thousandths I'd guess. Pretty obvious they don't even try to make them flush with some kind of fine grit belt or anything as a final step. Mass assembly seems to be the idea, no final fit/finish step. But scales are radiused on edges which I like very much. Overall very comfortable and secure in-hand...very good here and maybe the best point of the knife is the handle design IMHO.
The lockup on mine happens to be pretty good, good enough to keep. And, Emerson has copied the radiused tang feature from the Spyderco Terzuola collaboration, so had Benchmade, and this is a very good idea that seems to yield better results without excessive hand fitting for liner locks... good idea.
~~~~~~~~
Overall, a cool looking design that begs for a few design improvements and better attention to fabrication, assembly, and blade grind. To me, this is expressly for self defense and not really for utility (remember ... "we don't cut many tomatoes"! Indeed.) A carried-sometimes, used-little knife for me personally. YMMV.
If they made the BM 710 with a thicker blade that had more tip strength, that'd be my fav self defense carry, I suspect.
But the Mach-I gets a lot right for self defense and doesn't resort to some of the finger grooves and/or excessively deep index grooves that make the SIFU (too long to be legal) and Kasper Folding Fighter (available with cheap steel, & just too wide) less than "gotta own it" for me.
Well, that was at least two cents worth. If I got the answer wrong by being less than effusive, post this question on the Emerson Forum for a guarantee of a more favorable response.
[This message has been edited by rdangerer (edited 05-07-2001).]
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,981
I think that most of rdangerer's points are well taken. Except for the prices he used.
I checked Knife Center. They want a $30 premium for the black blade. The silver blade is $139.
1SKS -- store at the top of the page, sells the black bladed models for $119. Don't know if they offer the silver blades, but sincerely doubt the black blade rates a $30 premium here.
All I can say is that there are an awful lot of knives in the same price range, or even substantially cheaper, that a good many forumites would likely rate higher than the Mach 1. Two things I don't understand about it: 1) where is the wave? (It is the newest Emerson 2) Why do the text info sections of both the dealers I checked say it has ATS-34 steel, while the spec boxes both say it has 154-CM? (If you're not up on steel, AnklePocket, the 2 steels mentioned here are nearly identical in composition. For years ATS-34 held primacy over 154-CM, but lately, many have been giving the nod to 154-CM. Some say it has better edge holding, and isn't quite as soft at ATS-34. You won't go wrong with either steel tho.)
One piece of advice keeps coming thru on Emersons -- go to brick and mortar store, and check thru as many as needed to find one that has everything right on it. The big problem with that is the price. The prices rdangerer quoted are essentially double the 1SKS price. Another reason, possibly, to check out other knives/brands.
Though I've not yet purchased mine, I'm partial to the REKAT Carnivore. It is a pretty good defensive knife, and has a solid lock. Might cost a tad more than the $120 figure I mentioned.
Good luck, take your time,
------------------
Asi es la vida
Bugs
I checked Knife Center. They want a $30 premium for the black blade. The silver blade is $139.
1SKS -- store at the top of the page, sells the black bladed models for $119. Don't know if they offer the silver blades, but sincerely doubt the black blade rates a $30 premium here.
All I can say is that there are an awful lot of knives in the same price range, or even substantially cheaper, that a good many forumites would likely rate higher than the Mach 1. Two things I don't understand about it: 1) where is the wave? (It is the newest Emerson 2) Why do the text info sections of both the dealers I checked say it has ATS-34 steel, while the spec boxes both say it has 154-CM? (If you're not up on steel, AnklePocket, the 2 steels mentioned here are nearly identical in composition. For years ATS-34 held primacy over 154-CM, but lately, many have been giving the nod to 154-CM. Some say it has better edge holding, and isn't quite as soft at ATS-34. You won't go wrong with either steel tho.)
One piece of advice keeps coming thru on Emersons -- go to brick and mortar store, and check thru as many as needed to find one that has everything right on it. The big problem with that is the price. The prices rdangerer quoted are essentially double the 1SKS price. Another reason, possibly, to check out other knives/brands.
Though I've not yet purchased mine, I'm partial to the REKAT Carnivore. It is a pretty good defensive knife, and has a solid lock. Might cost a tad more than the $120 figure I mentioned.
Good luck, take your time,
------------------
Asi es la vida
Bugs
- Joined
- May 5, 2001
- Messages
- 919
Thanks. Got the Microtech LCC Lightfoot, Emerson Mini CQC-7B (on order) and Benchmade 705BT. Did I do good? Might have to round it out with a MOD Hornet or something like that.