Help Identifying Katana

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Oct 18, 2007
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So, I bought this katana close to 20 years ago, expecting it to be a true (nihonto) katana based on research I dug into back then but have subsequently forgotten most of. I bought it with no furniture except a mismatched habaki. I then had a shira-saya made for it. So certain things point to it being a pre-gunto blade - a hamon (which can be seen in the first photo near the habaki), a blade that is sharpened all the way under the habaki, and a shortish kissaki (point). Clearly the tang was shortened. There's a couple of things that are throwing me off: there's a normal straight fuller (bo-hi) on one side but a more decorative one on the other; and there's an etching under the habaki. That etching does not look like any WWII armory stamp and it's too large, and it's not a stamp. Any help trying to figure out what I have, whether it be forgery, WWII, or the real deal, will be greatly appreciated.
















 
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You should always remove the habaki completely for photos. The side with the single groove, the groove is called koshi-bi with maru dome. The carving or Horimono seen under the habaki and along that side is a buddhist bonji rendai and ken. This was originally on the polished portion blade, above the habaki, until it was shortened.

It is a real Japanese sword. Someone tried to clean it with steel wool or something, which is what caused all the fine surface scratches or hike kizu. Nothing but a new polish will repair that. DO NOT attempt that yourself ! Restoration of a Japanese sword should only be performed by a licensed professional.
 
Not odd at all. The blade is suriage (shortened). It was once a katana, shortened to wakizashi length. Hence part of the horimono which showed on the katana is now under the habaki due to the shortening. I have seen several swords shortened like this. The Japanese were/are very careful to conserve any part of a usable sword. I've seen long swords that were cut down to tanto length rather than destroy them.

Rich
 
To have a fuller on one side of the blade seems odd (literally :D), which was mainly what I was referring to. Beyond that, I find it a bit odd that it there's no kanji on the tang, I assume, since it wasn't included in the photos; I wouldn't expect that it would be cut off when the blade was shortened. These things became way more odd to me as soon as Southern Comfort said it was a real Japanese sword.

I was gonna take a wild guess that it was maybe a plain gunto that was lost in SE Asia somewhere, and the fuller and horimono were added later.
 
To have a fuller on one side of the blade seems odd (literally :D), which was mainly what I was referring to. Beyond that, I find it a bit odd that it there's no kanji on the tang, I assume, since it wasn't included in the photos; I wouldn't expect that it would be cut off when the blade was shortened. These things became way more odd to me as soon as Southern Comfort said it was a real Japanese sword.

I was gonna take a wild guess that it was maybe a plain gunto that was lost in SE Asia somewhere, and the fuller and horimono were added later.

There's no kanji on the tang, but I don't think that precludes it from being Nihonto. As I understand it, there's probably more blades without writing than there are with. I can't imagine someone grinding those markings into the blade after forging.


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No, not odd or unusual. You see many various horimono carved into Nihonto. See a few examples below.

As to the inscription on the tang or lack thereof is again, not odd or unusual. Many swords were never signed, many lost all or portions of the inscriptions when cut down or shortened. This is known a suriage (shortened) or O-suriage (greatly shortened).
When the tang is original or not shortened it is called "ubu".


I can't imagine someone grinding those markings into the blade after forging.

Not ground, chiseled.



http://yakiba.com/Tanto_Sadakazu.htm

http://yakiba.com/Kat_Fuyihiro.htm

http://yakiba.com/Tanto_Nobushige.htm

http://yakiba.com/Tanto_Nobukuni.htm

http://yakiba.com/Kat_Morokage.htm
 
Thanks guys, interesting stuff. I just started reading a fine book about Japanese swords, and it's already revealing lots of great details including what you're saying. There's so much to appreciate about these swords.

aWRl0gY.jpg
 
I'm curious about Japanese swords so clicked on the thread. Interesting stuff. Do you mean it when you say restoration by a licensed professional? You must mean in Japan them right because there aren't any licensing requirements for knife makers in the US are there?

Thanks for sharing the knowledge. Cool

Red
 
Do you mean it when you say restoration by a licensed professional? You must mean in Japan them right because there aren't any licensing requirements for knife makers in the US are there?

I mean everywhere, but only in regards to Nihonto or genuine Japanese swords. This has has nothing to do with Knife Makers anywhere, Japan, US or EU, etc..
Knife and tool makers even in Japan are not licensed by the ministry of culture.

Nihonto or the Japanese sword is considered a cultural art asset and carries a cultural status far above mere knives or knife making.

One of the fundamental differences between Japan and other countries is Japan requires proper education and licensing for many cultural activities such as becoming a sword smith or sword polisher.
You must first become an apprentice to a licensed smith or polisher.
You must complete that apprenticeship, enter government sanction competitions until you are determined competent to perform independently.
Then, and only then is one provided with the proper licensing and is able to work own his own within Japan.

Sword smith's must apprentice for a minimum of 5 years, sword polishers 10 years.
That is why there is only one licensed Japanese sword smith and two fully licensed Japanese sword polishers in North America.

Sadly, as you noted there are no governing requirements here.
You can apprentice a year or two, return to the US and call yourself a sword polisher, though calling a Volkswagen a Mercedes doesn't make it so!

Outside Japan, such as here in the US, many knife makers make replicas and variations of Japanese influenced swords.
Is there anything wrong with that, no. We have freedom of expression and can make what ever we like.

However, IMHO, the fine line is knowing where freedom of expression and spreading misinformation overlap.
Unfortunately, freedom of expression often leads to the spread of misinformation regarding things like terminology and nomenclature.
This spreading of misinformation may not be a malicious act, yet it yields in the same end result of incorrect knowledge being spread and accepted by those seeking knowledge.

Look through this site, you will see a wide variety of blades with Japanese names.
Does that make them Japanese, no. Is the terminology correct, many times no. Again, calling a Volkswagen a Mercedes doesn't make it so!

It is very important if you are interested in the hobby of Nihonto, to correctly learn the basics.
My advise would be to seek out a more specialized site if you wish to learn about Nihonto.

http://yakiba.com/beginner_page.htm
 
Restoration of a Japanese sword should only be performed by a licensed professional.


Do you have a recommendation for such work? I have a katana and wakizashi that I'd like to have polished and mounted in a proper daisho. Currentlky both are in shirasaya and I have tsubas for each.

The katana has the green NBTHK paper but the waki does not have papers.

Just a few pics (katana on top, waki below):


004gte.jpg



003ydc.jpg



022el.jpg
 
Hmm, yes possibly Yukimitsu. I can't see it well enough to guess, and it looks as though that character was deliberately obscured. Whomever the shinsa judges were, they were not sure of it either as evidenced by the square on the papers. But that has nothing to do with restoration.
 
That carving on the side of the blade without the Bo-hi is a stylized depiction of a sword. It is based on the oldest swords in Japan which were double edged "Ken" or "Tsurugi" type swords. These classical swords maintained a mythos about them having a relation to Buddhism and so are often depicted on Nihon-to like that.
 
Hmm, yes possibly Yukimitsu. I can't see it well enough to guess, and it looks as though that character was deliberately obscured. Whomever the shinsa judges were, they were not sure of it either as evidenced by the square on the papers. But that has nothing to do with restoration.

Very interesting! I wondered what the square represented.

Curious - - why do you feel it has been deliberately obscured? This blade appears to have been used in combat as it has several strike marks along the spine, so I'm wondering if perhaps it is a "hard use" issue and if not, what would be the motivation to obscure the mei in such a way?

Since it was allowed to be graded in shinsa, and was graded relatively high, I'm not concerned it is an attempt to pass it off as something it is not, but you have certainly piqued my curiosity with your observation.

031qfh.jpg


012gi.jpg



I seem to have stumbled upon someone who knows how to read the characters. Can you tell me the translation of the mei on the wakizashi? The information I have is Bishū Onomichi Ju Goami Sadanobu ca. 1490.


Many thanks in advance!
 
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I don't see a mei for the other sword, just a date.

Yes, the square represents a kanji character which can not be read.

If you look closely at the photo of the mei, that one character is the only one completely obscured. It alone has much more damage to it than the others. Damage which looks to be where someone used a chisel or punch to defile it.

It is not uncommon, and was kind of the poor mans way of removing a mei. The correct, but much more expensive way is to have a polisher remove it and professionally replace the file marks and patination.

Generally, this was done if a signature is deemed gimei. Signature is removed, sword is resubmitted to shinsa.

I can't be sure but it is possible your sword was deemed gimei, due to the shinsa panel thinking it was Fujishima work, but not Xmitsu. The one kanji was deleted and it was papered as seen, basically saying it is Fujishima work. Today it would have likely been papered Fujishima Den, or Den Fujishima. Today, they may or may not require full removal of the mei.

Many people will tell you that your papers are worthless today. Before someone comes along and enlightens me about the controversy surrounding all the "old" papers, I am aware of it. There was some scandal regarding the papering of some swords by factions of the Yakuza. There may have been some cases of this, but I never believed it as wide spread as the claims. What it did do was generate considerable income for the NBTHK (think about that).

I have resubmitted a lot of swords with these older papers for myself and others, 90% came back papered to the same smith. Were the remaining 10% due to scandal or simply differing opinion.(??) I have resubmitted swords with modern papers which had been lost and received a totally different attribution. Submitting a sword today with modern hozon papers can easily result in a different attribution, not due to the papers, not due to scandal, but due to a different Shinsa team judging it with differing opinions. People outside Japan put too much faith in "papers". Papers are just an opinion, not a guarantee. Opinions differ and they change for varying reasons.
 
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