How to get a better edge on Shapton Pro 1000 grit?

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lucasw45

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Aug 2, 2016
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I recently traded in my guided system for a set of shapton pro water stones. For my edc knives I like to have a bit toothier edge and so I assumed it would be best to stop on the 1000 grit Shapton Pro.

I can raise a bur along the full edge of the knife and remove it when stropping afterwards I can't seem to achieve very good sharpness off this stone. My edges will shave arm hair but require substantial pressure and will not shave at all until I have stropped.

My method is alternating sides of the blade with leading and trailing strokes in one motion. Once I am satisfied with bevel on both sides (I inspect under a 20x loupe) I use only light trailing strokes at a slightly elevated angle. After this my edges barely cut paper until I've stropped with bark river black compound. I can get them shaving sharp off of the 5000 grit without stropping but the sharpness still doesnt seem like it is where it should be for that stone either.

I've searched the forums and google and cant seem to get a remotely clear answer of what I could be doing. Some of my guesses though are:
  • Too much pressure when raising a burr
  • removing burr the wrong way
  • inconsistent angle when sharpening
  • Would I be better off going to 2000 grit?
Any suggestions or insight on sharpening on these Shapton Pro stones would be great. Thanks!
 
The shapton pro 1000 is more like an 800 grit stone.. the 2k pro leaves a much better edge and will also sharpen pretty fast. I'd get the kuromaku version off Amazon its like 40 bucks.. you won't be disappointed with that stone if I only could pick one it be that one
 
Hi,
lucasw45 said:
I recently traded in my guided system for a set of shapton pro water stones. For my edc knives I like to have a bit toothier edge and so I assumed it would be best to stop on the 1000 grit Shapton Pro.

I can raise a bur along the full edge of the knife and remove it when stropping afterwards I can't seem to achieve very good sharpness off this stone. My edges will shave arm hair but require substantial pressure and will not shave at all until I have stropped.

My method is alternating sides of the blade with leading and trailing strokes in one motion. Once I am satisfied with bevel on both sides (I inspect under a 20x loupe) I use only light trailing strokes at a slightly elevated angle. After this my edges barely cut paper until I've stropped with bark river black compound. I can get them shaving sharp off of the 5000 grit without stropping but the sharpness still doesnt seem like it is where it should be for that stone either.

I've searched the forums and google and cant seem to get a remotely clear answer of what I could be doing. Some of my guesses though are:
  • Too much pressure when raising a burr
  • removing burr the wrong way
  • inconsistent angle when sharpening
  • Would I be better off going to 2000 grit?
Any suggestions or insight on sharpening on these Shapton Pro stones would be great. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Hi,
Is there mud/grit on the stone? Wash it off before doing the final passes.
Then , using ultra light force (less than weight of blade, under 100 grams, like 50 or 20 grams )
deburr, especially if the burr you raise is visible with the naked eye or you can feel it,
first do double angle light edge leading alternating passes to deburr ,
1-2 pass per side
Then
edge leading alternating passes at slightly elevated angle (a microbevel) 1-10 per side

Or if you're digging into the stone with edge leading,
then do edge trailing,
first 1-2 pass per side slightly elevated angle (maybe double) to deburr,
then at original angle 1-5 pass per side edge trailing alternating
 
My guess is you still have a burr or a wire edge folding over.
Super light passes on a clean stone, edge leading would be my preferred method. Raising the spine and doing a very small micro bevel might help you clean up that wire edge too.
My definition of toothy is around 600, so for me jumping to 2000 would not satisfy my toothy urge. And if your leaving a burr at 1000, jumping to 2000 is only going to give you a shiny bevel...... with a burr.
I'm pretty sure you are not apexing, or you still have a burr.
It sounds very familiar, because I've been there before, and I'll probably go there again too.
 
When using any Shapton stone you always want to finish with light pressure and edge trailing strokes. On the 1000 pro however, it's just not easy to get a good clean edge. I'm not sure why but even I have difficulties getting a good clean edge from the pro 1k. I find my Glass stones offer much better sharpness from the stone in pretty much every grit. If you like a coarser edge the Shapton Glass 500 followed by some stropping is one of my current favorites for folding knives. The 500 Glass and 1k pro are actually fairly close in edge roughness but you can simply get a better edge easier from the Glass stone.

I would second the Rec for the SP2k for increasing sharpness but you will also be loosing the bite in the edge you were after.
 
Jason B. said:
When using any Shapton stone you always want to finish with light pressure and edge trailing strokes. On the 1000 pro however, it's just not easy to get a good clean edge. I'm not sure why but even I have difficulties getting a good clean edge from the pro 1k. I find my Glass stones offer much better sharpness from the stone in pretty much every grit. If you like a coarser edge the Shapton Glass 500 followed by some stropping is one of my current favorites for folding knives. The 500 Glass and 1k pro are actually fairly close in edge roughness but you can simply get a better edge easier from the Glass stone.

I would second the Rec for the SP2k for increasing sharpness but you will also be loosing the bite in the edge you were after.
Click to expand...

How is the Pro 1k for burr formation?

Some mid range waterstones just don't make solid stand-alone edges in my experience, and these same stones tend to grind with very little burr formation for their grind speed and grit rating. This is where a few quick passes on a polishing stone with a microbevel come in real handy, as the edge is generally very clean coming off the stone and is easy to refine it while leaving a lot of bite.

If I notice a trend on more than a few types of steel with a given stone despite taking my time, I'll stop asking why and use it in a different role...unless I get strong indications from other folk that they don't share my observations. In that case I'll try a few more times before giving up :D
 
The 1k pro produces a lot of burr but it's a rather sharp burr and the stone... regardless of pressure, always seems to keep kicking up a burr. It will feel very sharp but shaving sharp or even clean paper slicing is anything but good.

It's a great mid grit stone but not one I would want to finish with.
 
Forget about stropping with compound and pratice on your 1k stone, a 1k edge should easily shave arm hair, push cut newspaper and cleanly slice hanging paper towel (or course it should offer good cutting for what it is meant for...). If you deburr with edge leading strokes you will benefit from a few trailing strokes to make sure the very apex is not left with some roughness left from the abrasive.

When I want a 1k edge and 1k only, no compound or anything I will gently swipe the edge on denim or coarse fabric like shown by Yu Kurosaki in this video : https://www.instagram.com/p/BS_OLtIA27K/?taken-by=seisukeknife

At your level of freehand sharpening a strop with compound will hinder your skill development and the feedback you get from honing on stones. Frankly I never used a Shapton Pro 1k but can acheiuve a good 1k edge from a King 1200, Super Stone 1000 and Naniwa Pro 1000.

To add on what Jason B said the Glass 500 is a winderful stone and can put a really usefull edge on certain type of knife where an aggressive edge is needed, it reminds me of a Norton Fine India somewhat...

I'm still a relative beginner, i have been where you're at not too long ago so take this with a huge grain of salt.
 
Thank all of you for the advice. I definitely feel like I am struggling to remove the burr on the stone so I guess my next step will be too practice that. I may look into the 500 grit glass stone as well since most modern folders seem to be steels with a lot of vanadium carbides. The main reason I switched over was to sharpen my fixed blades and oddly enough my bark rivers in 3v dont give me near as much trouble. But my PM2 in S35vn seem almost impossible
 
The Pro stones work better on lower alloy steels. They are ideal for basic carbon and low alloy stainless. They struggle with PM steels.
 
Jason B. said:
The Pro stones work better on lower alloy steels. They are ideal for basic carbon and low alloy stainless. They struggle with PM steels.
Click to expand...

If I decide to get one other stone for my folders with high alloy steels would you recommend the glass stones or are something like chosera better?
 
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