Originally posted by one2gofst
It seems as though many people think that by avoiding confrontation with predators or running from predators people are letting the predators win. Unless we stand up to our attacker who seek to make us their victims they win. I am a proponent of defending oneself. However, I think one should look at the best ways to keep themselves safe.
So my question is why do people think that avoidance and retreat are allowing the predator to win in when the same sort of events take place between humans. I am curious as to why it is considered by more than a few to be contemptable to follow the same basic paradigms that are present in animals.
I'm sure this is aimed at a couple people but I feel pretty safe that I am one of those people so I'll comment on it.
For one thing, as human beings, we are "animals." But, we are separate from the "animals" you speak of, therefore, a portion of your analogy is incredibly flawed. There are so many variables present in our world, made up with a flawed Judicial System, flawed by Men and Women who have their own corrupt or morally bankrupt political ideologies and philosophies at work, etc. We have prisons, a broken Judicial System, grandstanding and idiotic politicians with opinions ranging from truly benevolent to tyrannical. All of these things collide when we speak about Self-defense. The animals in the field, where your analogy comes into play means very little to me.
You may call me ignorant for not agreeing with you, I think you can tell from my own words I'm far from an ignorant person. I simply reject the whole premise of your argument completely.
But I will entertain portions of it.
Secondly, don't misconstrue what I have stated in other posts. Don't think because I write something that this is written in stone, set there and cannot be a fast-changing variable when it comes to survival.
I think you have lifted what you wished from various statements and wrapped a philosophy around that to attempt to break it down and write about it.
I believe that when, as a Society, people no longer fight back against crime, it sends the wrong message to the criminal element. There has been much "talk" on various bulletin boards (including this one) as to people acting like "bullies." Let's use a human analogy to illustrate our problems instead of speaking about animals.
This emboldens the criminal element to more and more outrageous and violent behavior when they know no one will resist. Concealed Carry of Handguns has proven time and time again to the point that it can only be debated by disingenuous Gun Control Advocates who like to twist arguments...that it works.
But having said all of that which I believe to be factual, I still never stated that a tactical retreat is not the thing to do in many situations. Do you think for one moment that a loving Husband and Father would want to engage an unknown element with ANY weapon by choice?
On these bulletin boards, it has been argued since people have came online, Self-defense issues colliding with gun issues. After almost five years on the Internet, this is nothing new. What both of us are writing...is nothing new. It's the runners vs. those that won't tuck tail and run and advocate that. The reason is brutally simple. You can't always run! People like yourself preach the "Jim Fixx Solution" and there is nothing wrong with that, running - tactical retreat - until you realize that we are not speaking about that!
When I write something, I assume a certain amount of intelligence on the part of the reader. I continue to do this and continue to get screwed for my assumption.
What we are speaking about are the times when you cannot run. Just because I think Society as a whole would be better with NOT running and smoking those who need to be smoked on the spot, that is not a reality either. It's not feasible to engage when you have an avenue of escape and a Wife and/or child with you.
One only engages when they have to.
The problem with the "Runner's Argument" is, quite frankly, it's weak and it's garbage. The reason I say that is, there are so many instances where you cannot run! When people like myself call it what it is, unrealistic garbage, we get flamed as bloodthirsty. It's not bloodthirsty at all. It's reality.
Alot of people ran at the San Yasidro McDonald's in the mid-80s from one James Huberty. Some made it, alot did not. A Police Sniper killed him some time later - after all of the damage was done, talk about a shallow victory. That's the equivalent of killing a rabid pit bull that has been cornered after it killed 12 kids in a playground. One Armed Citizen could have killed his worthless, psychotic ass right then and there when it happened.
Ditto Luby's Cafeteria. They say God works in mysterious ways, maybe all of those people died so one hundred times that many could possibly live later on because that was the incident that spurred Dr. Suzanna Gratia to lobby her Legislators for concealed carry in Texas.
Back to the original premise of your statement...
If someone runs in that "Luby's" they have decided to try to make the door or window before someone shoots them in the back. I see no "plus" to this. I see no plus to getting shot in the back on the street either.
You speak of animals and the animal kingdom. What you leave out is where the human predator and the animal predator meet in a unique place.
All of these people talking about running away ignore the fact that nothing gets a predator going hotter and faster than to have elusive prey. You run, you better be a damned good runner. Better not have a child...better be lucky.
I could go on, but why bother?
In nature there are predators and prey as well. No one says that a gazzelle let the Lion win when the gazzelle chooses to run from the lions rather than standing and fighting. No one accuses a crane of allowing the predator to dominate their lives when the crane chooses not to drink at the edge of the water where alligators are obviously nearby. Hypothetically, I am sure that if a monkey had a bananna and a predator wanted it the monkey would give it and run in order to save his hide.
If another crane in Austria invented the Glock handgun, would the crane have to fear the alligator at the waters edge?
Of course not. These statements are absurd. The lions have the "guns and knives" in the form of claws and teeth, etc.
