Kiritsuke, bunka and petty

[turuleco]

Hi, I’m looking for a kiritsuke 240 mm, a bunka 180 mm and a petty 90-100 mm in Aogami Super (I think this would be the best, correct me if I’m wrong), with Japanese handle.

I’m a professional cook that already own a Kay Shun santoku, a KF1302 and KF1303 CCK cleavers and a set of pro Zwilling. I mainly use them for vegetables with all techniques: rocking, chopping and push/pulling, depending the knife I’m using and the product I’m cutting.

I’ve got three Naniwa Chosera 400, 1000 and 5000 whetstones, so I sharpen my own knives.

I have no budget limit, but I don’t want to pay for something very expensive because it is; if you could buy the knife of your dreams, which would it be.

I will buy it in Japan, I have a friend over there so he can bring it to me; it would be nice to know where I can buy them.

Thank you very much in advance.

 

[Corton93]

A good Smatchet should cover all your bases pretty well I think..

Kidding obviously . But someone more knowledgeable with kitchen cutlery will probably be along shortly to provide you with some actual reccomendations.

And welcome to the forum!

 

[polish avenger]

Smatchet is, of course, the correct implement...but I think this discussion will probably be better had in the kitchen knife area.

 

[Aardvark]

I have one of those. The carrots shudder when I get it out.

 

[KenHash]

Hi, I’m looking for a kiritsuke 240 mm, a bunka 180 mm and a petty 90-100 mm in Aogami Super (I think this would be the best, correct me if I’m wrong), with Japanese handle.

I’m a professional cook that already own a Kay Shun santoku, a KF1302 and KF1303 CCK cleavers and a set of pro Zwilling. I mainly use them for vegetables with all techniques: rocking, chopping and push/pulling, depending the knife I’m using and the product I’m cutting.

I’ve got three Naniwa Chosera 400, 1000 and 5000 whetstones, so I sharpen my own knives.

I have no budget limit, but I don’t want to pay for something very expensive because it is; if you could buy the knife of your dreams, which would it be.

I will buy it in Japan, I have a friend over there so he can bring it to me; it would be nice to know where I can buy them.

Thank you very much in advance.

As a professional chef you should of course buy and use whatever suits you the best, That said...
Kiritsuke - The term describes the tip, which is sometimes called a "reverse tanto" by outdoor knife users. However it has come to be used (incorrectly) as a description of a Gyuto with a Kiritsuke tip. It's a Western fad. There is a functional advantage in fine tip work, but I really don't see that need except in the most traditional Japanese cuisine. Some chefs might disagree. But yes, it looks really cool and it'd a big fad. Many "kiritsuke" knives today display slightly more belly than a classic Gyuto profile.
Bunka- Originally the term meant a Santoku and Bannou. Somewhere along the way the kiritsuke tipped high profile of the Fukuoka area got "discovered" by the Western knife market and became touted as the "Bunka". Again, a big Western fad. But a Bunka does serve as a good alternative to a Nakiri.
Petty - like the Gyuto, it originally entered Japan in the 1800s so 99% of Gyutos and Pettys in use within Japan are Western handled (Yo Handle). The Wa Handle (Japanese handle) became popular among Western users as it carried over the style of the traditional single bevel knives (Yanagiba, Deba) they saw being used behind the sushi counter.
All that said, you should buy the style that suits you best. Fad or no fad.

You need to break down your preferences first, which may require some homework.
1.Stainless or Non-Stainless?
2. Damascus or not? Plain. Tsuchime or Kurouchi finish?
3 Factory or hand made?

There are nearly countless good makers. mostly centered in Echizen, Sakai (Osaka) and Seki. Then are are makers in lesser concentrated place like Tokyo and Kyoto.
You would be best guided by telling us which maker/model interests you and receive comments.
For others to suggest something without knowing your specific preferences would be a chore and we would all just suggest models we like or own.

 

[Dr. Rayeye]

If you're going to Osaka, you might consider visiting Sakai Ichimonji Mitsuhide:

Sakai Ichimonji Mitsuhide : Premium Japanese Knives from Osaka

From 1953 to today, Sakai Ichimonji Mitsuhide has been connecting home cooks and professional chefs to sharpness through Japanese knives from the heart of Osaka! We carry over 2,000 types of Sakai made knives. We ship internationally, so give your cooking a big boost with our amazing sharpness...

global.ichimonji.co.jp

My Japanese collaborator visited there--and surprised me with a really nice artisan knife when he came back--complete with my name engraved in kanji. They have staff who speak English and could help you explore. They are used to working with chefs.

 

[bikerector]

Mr. Hash did a good job explaining things. He calls some things fads, but that doesn't necessisarily means it's bad. The bunka and kiritsuke "fad" isn't really losing you any functionality over a gyuto and santoku as they can nearly be described as a k-tip gyuto and santoku in the Western market. We could argue the edge curves and lines are a little different between each type, but there's so much variation within each style that the crossover is so large, it's to just think of then as nearly the same knife, just select the edge profile you want from one of the hundreds of makers out there.

As for the steel, AS, what's the aim there? It is very good edge retention but the toughness is low so it wears from micro chipping and may not give a longer edge life depending on the application. I would worry less about the steel and more about the maker, who will squeeze the performance from the steel they use. Any of the traditional Japanese steels are going to work great from a good maker, White 2, white 1, Blue 2, Blue 1, and AS. Of those 5, blue 2 and blue 2 are my favorite on paper, but the maker makes or breaks the steel's performance.

For just veggies, I love a good nakiri.

The petty length you picked seems small to me, most use 120mm as the shortest length. Below that, it's a paring knife.

As far as where to get them, look uo some of the chef knife websites. They are not supporters here so we can't link them. I know of 3 good ones in the states and 2 more in Canada, email me if you want me to discuss my experiences with them. All 5 get knives from Japanese blacksmiths instead of just supplying the mainstream kitchen cutlery brands like most jnife websites I looked threw.

Note: I'm not a professional cook. I'm an outdoor knife designer as a side hustle. My perspectives may not match your own but I am an enthusiastic researcher and I recently went down the kitchen knife rabbit whole and spent many hours reading, researching, and testing. There are people have far more experience in the kitchen knife realm than me and hopefully they respond.

After my digging, I wanted a wa handle knife, carbon steel edge and iron cladding and around a 7" blade. I'm going to get a Kikumori Kikuzuki Kasumi 180mm Kiritsuke Santoku (it's a bunka). Having said that, I ordered a much cheaper one to try out and it's performing very well for much less, $80 vs the $275 for the Kikuzuki Kasumi.

 

[Danke42]

If it was me I wouldn't be asking a bunch of strangers at the bus stop about knife makers in Japan and then depend on someone else to get it to me.

If cost was no object I'd be on the plane and going to those forges myself (along with some sushi spots and other spots to eat).

Or,

Culinary - Spyderco, Inc.

www.spyderco.com

As an option this will get you close, just pick the Super Blue. They have no "story" other than Murray Carter's own.

 

[gooeytek]

I'd get them made. Several makers here will make you exactly what you want. David Mary has made several for me in AEBL, and is making my santoku in Magnacut

 

[Dr. Rayeye]

I have Japanese versions of all three knives that you identify, but they are all different from your specs in one way or another. So, I very much approve your strategy for exploring--face to face--in Japan. If you are going to Japan, I'm not sure you need a friend to bring knives back. If you're not going, it will be difficult to see the same knives here, and awkward if you are planning to buy them somewhere else.