Ku Klux Klan Limited Edition by Case

I am glad to hear these knives are an aftermarket job. I never had a very high regard for Frost cutlery any way so not buying them will not be a loss. I want to make it clear that when I said that I wondered why any one would want or make a present of a KKK knife, I was not calling Dead by Dawn a racist. I would need more information than that to make judgement about someone's character. I still say that as an African American, I would be naive if my antennae didn't go up when I read his post. Afterall, as a black man and a knife lover, I know a thing or two about racial and other types of profiling. Just as I wouldn't want a police officer to pull me over on appearance alone I would never jump to a conclusion over one fairly minor piece of evidence.
 
You're absolutely right Brian it is all about freedom of speech. My view on the subject is a bit extreme to fanatical and on that issue i tend to get carried away a bit. I do feel that if a company offers to print religious symbols on a product it should be open to all religions, political groups, all etc. It's this issue of the best and worse of society having the same rights. The word censorship does not really apply here ,I agree.
The knife pictured in the knife forums post seems new. I've seen KKK knives that go back quite a few years. Taylor cutlery of Tennesee sold a KKK novelty knife for years, possibly still do. Today they're more known for Smith & Wesson knives.

[This message has been edited by TomW (edited 09-21-2000).]
 
Im suprised case would ever make something so tasteless and offensive, i think the only suitable place for it is the garbage. collectable or not its morally detestable.
 
Originally posted by anthony cheeseboro:
There have been some interesting responses here. One thing I find interesting is the idea that Dead by Dawn should keep it because his father gave it to him. I have ask why did his father give him this particular knife? I can't help but think that it might reflect his father's values. Dead by Dawn already said he would keep the knife, and that is his business, still I wonder what the symbolism of the KKK means to him.

<SNIP>

My dad bought it because he had never seen a Case knife like it. He tends to seek out the strange and unsusal when it comes to buying knives.
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Originally posted by anthony cheeseboro:
I am glad to hear these knives are an aftermarket job. I never had a very high regard for Frost cutlery any way so not buying them will not be a loss. I want to make it clear that when I said that I wondered why any one would want or make a present of a KKK knife, I was not calling Dead by Dawn a racist. I would need more information than that to make judgement about someone's character. I still say that as an African American, I would be naive if my antennae didn't go up when I read his post. Afterall, as a black man and a knife lover, I know a thing or two about racial and other types of profiling. Just as I wouldn't want a police officer to pull me over on appearance alone I would never jump to a conclusion over one fairly minor piece of evidence.
Click to expand...

Nope I'm not a racist, just because I have the knife, and wouldn't ever think of parting with it, doesn't mean I support the klan. I also have a serious collection of assult weapons, but that doesn't mean I'm a terroist.

 
Ok, so now that we've gone full circle from the monetary value of the knife,and wether it should be kept, to everybody's opinion of hate groups and related articles, to accusing each other of being part of hate groups , to wether or not case actually made them, Has anyone found an answer to the original question? How much is the knife worth? As in how much money would he expect another collector to pay for it?
Its obviously not a year 2000 knife seeing as how he said his father gave it to him years ago, so its probably worth more than the $70 ones that are getting sold at gunshows right now. Has anyone seen one similar to his for sale anywhere? If there made into the special edition knives after market, then it could be a one of a kind knife.

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It'll feel better when it stops hurting.
 
I have an issue with this... I once held a knife that I KNOW was used to SERIOUSLY harm someone. The feeling I got from holding the piece surged thru my body like no one's business. Really irked me. Few years later, I was GIVEN a Nazi Youth knife, the kind from the movie Saving Private Ryan. I kept the knife for two days. Then I got rid of it.

Even though HATE is bad, no matter how you look at it, the level of tolerance we derive in our daily lives would be a great deal lower if it wasnt for these groups showing us how NOT TO BE.

America goes hand in hand with freedom, so if a group or another wants to get together for this reason or that, fine...but don't expect support wen you promote hate and intolerance.

About the knife, do with it what you will, I rek'mnd either putting it in a case to show off, afterall the KKK is on their way down. OR, take that knife, go to a river and hold it tight. Think of all the hate, pain, and suffereing that it stands for...THEN THROW IT IN!!!

Otherwise...bring it up here and show it off in Harlem...THEY'LL LOVE YOU FOR IT...

Good Luck...

Steve in NYC


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What we do today in life...echoes in eternity...
Every man dies...not every man lives...
 
At least we can all agree on the fact that the KKK are nothing but a bunch of whiney, ignorant, paranoid, SOB's who need to grow up and get a life.

As for the knife? I'd probably piss on it and send it to the Klan via my middle finger.
 
Some of these responses that attach all of this negative emotion to an inanimate object sound like the liberals who want to take our guns (and knives, too, eventually).
Getting mad at manufacturers who make these "evil" inanimate objects sounds really familiar, too.
There's nothing wrong with being offended by the KKK, but get a grip, we're talking about a little piece of wood and steel.
Didn't expect to find so many "sheeple" here, of all places
rolleyes.gif



[This message has been edited by Owen (edited 09-22-2000).]
 
I have several bayonets that I got some 30 years ago and when I cleaned them up it was evident that they were used to do some one harm but that dosen't mean that I am going to get rid of them. On the other hand I have some bricks that I am getting rid of tomorrow. A lot of people sure jump the gun when its time for a linching glad I live were the police will come first.And I agree knives and guns have been used to do harm all over the world IT DOESN'T MEAN WE HAVE TO GET RID OF THEM OR BOYCOTT THE MAKERS THAT IS WHAT IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW IN OUR COUNTRY PEOPLE WANT TO SUE THE GUN OR KNIFE MAKER FOR THE KILLING SOME ONE ELSE DOES. I guess it wont be long before we lose both rights.
 
It's funny how the possession of something or being kin to someone who may have been associated with 'hate' in some form or fashion automatically places you as another follower of this belief.

I still have the KKK membership card that my grandaddy's brother had back in the late 1940s. I ran across it after cleaning out an old trunk shortly after my grandad passed away. I thought it was unique so I kept it. I guess that makes me a racist huh? Not at all. It is simply something that is unique and something I had not seen before, to me it's no different than having a shrunken head from the Amazonian Indians I know - who were ruthless as hell at one time. DO I want to shrink someome's head? No. But artifacts from the past are interesting.

To add fuel to the fire, my family orginally came from South Georgia and if you trace the history back far enough, they were plantation owners and even owned slaves.....so I guess guilt by association makes me a racist huh? Again, No. I cannot help what my family did several generations ago and anyone that wishes to place blame on me for such things is simply perpetuating racism. True we should never forget the past, but you cannot place blame on those that had nothing to do with the past.

The bottom line is you judge every man on his own merits and not as a group based on skin color, religion, politics, or anything else.

Personally I know the KKK is a hate organization. How I know this is not because I was a member but I did get close to this organization, and similar ones, for specific reasons during the past. Trust me when I say it was not because I was sympathetic to their 'cause.' What I found is most of their members were nothing more than uneducated rednecks passing their hate on to kids barely old enough to read. You want to see heartbreak, then watch a 5 year old kid with hate in his eyes, standing in a nazi salute shouting, "kill the niggers!'

F*ck these bastards, plain and simple.

Having said that I disagree with EVERY organization including the Nazi movement, Skinheads, militia, Louis Farrachaun (sp?), Jesse Jackson, NAACP and ever one else that wants to claim it's someone elses fault that they are in the position they are in.

As a side note to this, Anyone that believes in affirmative action is doing nothing more than saying, "I'm not good enough to make it on my own merits." To me this is racism in its finest form being self-applied.

Racism DOES exist, however I have know many folks that do not allow racist tags to hold them back. They look past it, apply themselves, and and succeed in life.

In this country, we call these people with a simple tag of 'American' and nothing more. They are just as equal as myself regardless of their skin color. This is meant as no disrespect to you Anthony, but I don't consider you an African American. If you were born in this country then you are an American just like me and neither of us are any better or any worse because of our heritage.

In closing, keep the knife, it's a symbol of an era that caused much pain and suffering for ALL people in this country, and even made many people 'guilty' of being something they are not - simply because their past family was part of it. Personally, I'm tired of these damn labels being applied and I don't owe anyone an apology for what generations past have done.

Should the knife have been made? I think it was wrong to make such a symbol of hatred but it happened and now probably holds some value or uniqueness about it because of fools from the past.

As Don Henley said in the song, "get over it!"

Jeff

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Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com
 
Jeff Randall, I can appreciate your interest in historical items. I am a history professor by trade. Similarly, I can understand Dead by Dawn's interest in and decision to keep the "KKK Case" that his father gave him. Although it has nothing to do with knives, I must take issue with one point you made. The NAACP and other mainstream civil rights groups are in no way the moral equivalent of the KKK. The civil rights movement has always been violent in its orientation and has always been integrated racially. The NAACP's first several presidents were white. The NAACP has always had white members and white directors.
If the point you wanted to make is that all people can be capable of hate and evil, I have no problem with that, it is obviously true. However, if you want to make that point, use a valid example. Non-violent, integrated organizations which tradtitionally have emphasized the courts as their primary means of struggle are not the the same as segregated, masked men, who ganged up in large numbers to kill people they didn't like in the dead of night. I'm sorry to get into an overtly political discussion but I could not allow the previous post to go without a response.
 
While I most definitely do not support the beliefs of the KKK of today, they were a very large organization at one time. To the point that one of our presidents belonged. I don't remember which president, but it was before hate and violence took over the KKK.

I was shocked when I learned of the people that belonged back then and how the KKK formed. If I remember correctly, the organization started as more of a social club for caucasians (not as a "we hate others" club), with all the "well-to-do" that goes with that. It was a few pockets that turn to hate and violence, and the accompanying press, that eventully caused not only a turn in the organization's beliefs and actions, but it's decline in popularity.

My point is this: given a climate of widespread acceptance, especially among the elite, in the days before widespread hate and violence, was Case simply capitalizing on an opportunity, or actively supporting the organization?

Even if they were active supporters, the KKK back then was pro-caucasian and not anti-everyone else. Is there a difference? Absolutely. I can be proud to be what I am without having to put other races/beliefs down in an ineffective attempt to make myself look better in my own mind. The KKK, in it's pro-caucasian, pre-hate days, was a very respected organization that many belonged to. That is why it enjoyed huge membership increases, not because it hated and killed blacks. Those came after the membership increases and caused the ensuing decreases. I'd guess that it was the large membership alone that represented a market in Case's eyes, not beliefs and actions that didn't even exist yet.

If Case is going to be judged, it should be done based on the environment at the time the knife was made, rather than by today's view of the KKK. If Case did make this knife after the hate became widespread through the KKK, then shame on them. I doubt it...

I wish that could remember the name of the History Channel special that chronicled the KKK. It would be interesting know exactly when the knife was made and see where that falls on the KKK's timeline.

Am I defending the KKK? Absolutely not. But get the facts straight before you go judging others.

I have a feeling, this may be the first thread where we will most assuredly be missing James. I wonder what James would have said?

I'd either keep the knife, or sell it to a collector.

As for me, I'm with Jeff and Don Henley - get over it!

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Knowledge without understanding is knowledge wasted.
Understanding without knowledge is a rare gift - but not an impossibility.
For the impossible is always possible through faith. - Bathroom graffiti, gas station, Grey, TN, Dec, 1988

AKTI Member #A000831

[This message has been edited by Codeman (edited 09-22-2000).]
 
Anthony, I guess I should have brought that point out a little clearer in my post. I agree with you that the NAACP has not had the history of violence that many of the mentioned organizations have had. My point (which should have been made clearer) is most organizations fall into a certain amount of racism, or blame role, and that's the reason I have no use for any of them. Even labor unions do this. Many times what starts out with good intentions ends up in a political machine far from the original intent. Government is one of these also.

Like I said, you and I are just simple Americans and obviously neither of us have any desire to be violent or hate anyone. I wished the whole world thougt like this.

Honorable men need no mouth pieces to remain honorable.

Jeff

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Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com
 

As a young white male I have encountered many different degrees of racism against non-whites (luckily not very often) - mostly from inappropriate jokes that I don't laugh at, or the occasional slurs that some people blurt out at opportune times (and if you're white, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about)...

If I were a black male in this country, I would not hate white people, but I would definitely be jaded.

I think it takes a lot of character for Anthony to maintain his composure and remain balanced when posting about these issues -

-ZZ
 
In response to Owen's statement, "...but get a grip, we're talking about a little piece of wood and steel."

No. We are talking about what the knife represents. It's symbolic of something very dangerous and offensive, and it is innocuous attitudes which perpetuate the existence of these idiot groups. If more people would say, "it's wrong", the more they would be squelched.

By your argument, you should not be offended if I called you a P.O.S. Why? Well heck, it's only vowels and consonants strung together with syntax, right? Wrong. It is the semantics -- or representation -- which is the issue. Note, I'm not calling you names, I'm just trying to give you an idea of how ludicrous it is to simplify things to its literal derivative.

Secondly, you have no business telling people how they should feel, especially with a condescending statement like, "get a grip" unless you are in their shoes. Are you African-American, Jewish, or any of the other groups that the KKK would sooner destroy? How would you feel if someone hated you, and wanted to destroy you, not because of who you are, but just because of your physical traits? What if I said that ALL PEOPLE NAMED OWEN are taking away jobs, using up too much space, not as intelligent, etc?

Lastly, what do gun-laws -- a legislative issue -- have anything to do racism, a humanity issue?

Pardon the pun Owen, but I'm asking that you don't reduce everything to black and white.
 
Originally posted by Full Tang Clan:
"In response to Owen's statement, "...but get a grip, we're talking about a little piece of wood and steel."

No. We are talking about what the knife represents."

Really? I thought that this was a knife forum, and that a person had a question about the dollar value of a particular knife.

"It's symbolic of something very dangerous and offensive,"

It's symbolism is purely subjective. To me it's just a knife. You can make it anything you want.

"and it is innocuous attitudes which perpetuate the existence of these idiot groups. If more people would say, "it's wrong", the more they would be squelched."

If you are referring to my attitude toward the KKK, then perhaps you should read my posts again-since I made it clear that I despise them.

"Secondly, you have no business telling people how they should feel, especially with a condescending statement like, "get a grip" unless you are in their shoes."

If my use of the phrase "get a grip" was condescending, then I apologize for that.
I don't recall telling anyone how they should feel. I made an analogy comparing the way some of the previous posts attached so much emotion to an inanimate object in the same manner that the anti-gun nuts attach their hatred to firearms, which to them are (if I may use your words) "symbolic of something very dangerous and offensive".
I think that analogy was accurate.
If you disagree, fine. Just because our viewpoints differ is no excuse for your rude and personal post.
I did not single you out or attempt to alienate you in any way, but for some reason you see fit to do so to me. Your lack of respect or consideration also negates your right to the same.
Since you seem to think that you are in a position to judge others based strictly on your opinions, and attack them for expressing themselves, perhaps you should join the KKK or a similar organization, since they are similarly misguided. You should fit right in.

Click to expand...
 
Ful Tang Clan (Sorry if I got it wrong)

In case you have not watched any BET shows or listened to any speeches by the various special interest groups or liberals, the white male in America is HATED VERY MUCH INDEED! Every policy and law is aimed at helping specific groups of people instead of helping the Country. Who said "Ask not, what your country can do for you...?"

It's a shame that we can't talk on this subject without immediately being labeled a racist. It's just like talking about firearms with an anti, they immediately label you as the lowest possible common denominator of gun nut.

Hell, I like everybody, but that doesn't mean I'm not happy and proud to be a white man in America. I have several friends that are not just like me and we get along famously! They don't hold it against me that I'm not just like them either.

Knife comment: I'd hang on to that Case knife. Someday it will be worth something, just like old Slave collars, Nazi memorabilia, Concentration Camp relics, and relics from every war that has ever been fought. Human tragedy has a funny way of adding significant worth to insignificant objects. Whether the perpetrator or the victim of the event is the provider of such artificats.

canis
 
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