I`m still in the Jim March camp pulling for some larger folders than the standard <4"blades. I`ve been thinking of how Spyderco might make one for a smaller investment to "test the waters". There are a lot of states that have no blade length limit so why not give it a shot? How about using the same grip/lock as the Catcherman widened to accept a more Military type flat ground 4 3/4" blade. Zytel and ATS55 would be fine for starters. It`s not Spyderco Vaquero but it`s a start. What do you think Sal? Marcus
Larger folders:here we go again!
- Thread starter Marcus
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Sal Glesser
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Marcus - Thanx for the encouragement. However, we are not inclined to produce folders with a blade length of over 4" (101mm). The primary reason is that most local governments frown on concealed carry knives over that length. Their contention is that anything over that blade length is probably an intended weapon and their primary job is to protect the populace from harm. We are finding that in many overseas countries, that blade length limit is getting shorter.
We would like to continue producing our products and distributing them to ELU worldwide without insulting or angering those local governments. Spyderco is and always has been of the attitude that we are not producing weapons that one should use to "go around hurting people". We can easily justify a very high performance cutting tool if the blade length is less than 4". We believe it's just a more mature approach.
From an engineering point of view, if you are going to carry such a large knfe that folds, the leverage arm of a 5" or 6" blade significantly increases and lock stgrength becomes an issue, especially if one is involved in some type of martial bladecraft.
In a defensive situation a very sharp small folder (under 4") with knowledge is far more effective than a very large folder with no knowledge.
I'm not saying "never" or that a "collector" piece in the future is out of the question, just that it is not in accordance with the direction that our company has been and is continueing to go. Besides, Lynn (Cold Steel) is filling that niche very nicely. Large, high quality, strong folders in any size desired. Hope that helps.
sal
We would like to continue producing our products and distributing them to ELU worldwide without insulting or angering those local governments. Spyderco is and always has been of the attitude that we are not producing weapons that one should use to "go around hurting people". We can easily justify a very high performance cutting tool if the blade length is less than 4". We believe it's just a more mature approach.
From an engineering point of view, if you are going to carry such a large knfe that folds, the leverage arm of a 5" or 6" blade significantly increases and lock stgrength becomes an issue, especially if one is involved in some type of martial bladecraft.
In a defensive situation a very sharp small folder (under 4") with knowledge is far more effective than a very large folder with no knowledge.
I'm not saying "never" or that a "collector" piece in the future is out of the question, just that it is not in accordance with the direction that our company has been and is continueing to go. Besides, Lynn (Cold Steel) is filling that niche very nicely. Large, high quality, strong folders in any size desired. Hope that helps.
sal
Jim March
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Cold Steel is *not* fully supporting that "niche". Zytel, AUS8, serrations that border on idiocy, NO plainedge option and a clunky lockwork that needs dremel tool mods to make street-ready are NOT my idea of a dream folder!
Sal, you make *knives*. That means you are NOT going to be the absolute favorite company or person to the extreme paranoid totalitarian anti-self-defense types.
Get over it. You've had one brief flash of "gonzo" with the Civilian, which was cool...but you won't even advertise the puppy on your site.
Jim March
Sal, you make *knives*. That means you are NOT going to be the absolute favorite company or person to the extreme paranoid totalitarian anti-self-defense types.
Get over it. You've had one brief flash of "gonzo" with the Civilian, which was cool...but you won't even advertise the puppy on your site.
Jim March
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The Civilian . . .
"But officer! I only carry it to harvest my wild oats!"
How about a beefed up Catcherman for cleaning bigger fish? Or a big Gourmet Folder, designed to allow the whole edge to come down on a cutting board? Neither of these would say "Nasty Knife" all over them, though one could presumably do willful damage with one if necessary, God forbid.
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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
"But officer! I only carry it to harvest my wild oats!"
How about a beefed up Catcherman for cleaning bigger fish? Or a big Gourmet Folder, designed to allow the whole edge to come down on a cutting board? Neither of these would say "Nasty Knife" all over them, though one could presumably do willful damage with one if necessary, God forbid.
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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
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Sal-
I understand your point on keeping the blade length under 4". I must, however, agree with Jim March in regards to the niche being filled. The vaquero leaves some to be desired as to materials and the serrations suck. I only bought it because of the $35 deal SMKW had on it. I would never have paid full price for it. If someone made a 6" folder with a 440V or ATS-34 blade, titainium liners and G10 or micarta scales I'd buy it and I think alot of others would too.
Just my .02¢
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Ciao
MM
I understand your point on keeping the blade length under 4". I must, however, agree with Jim March in regards to the niche being filled. The vaquero leaves some to be desired as to materials and the serrations suck. I only bought it because of the $35 deal SMKW had on it. I would never have paid full price for it. If someone made a 6" folder with a 440V or ATS-34 blade, titainium liners and G10 or micarta scales I'd buy it and I think alot of others would too.
Just my .02¢
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Ciao
MM
Hey Jim, just think If Spyderco did come out with a Big Folder, it would probably have that hump like the "Escalator" that you were so enthused about.
Joking aside, Come on Sal, As mr. March is fond of saying, there are a potential 17 million customers on a state (CA) where ANY folder size is legal (And a couple of nutz in AK too, I would end my personal boycott if you made a 5-6" folder).
Your company was founded on breaking all of the rules, the pocket clip, the hole, the custom quality at an affordable price. Why stop now? Bowing down to laws that do not even exist borders on lunacy.
It does not even have to be a "tactical" or "self defense" knife. There have been many times where I wish I had a larger blade while camping, but did not carry a fixed blade because of its bulkyness. A 5-6" folder with a clip would be great for backpackers and the like.
"I'm not saying "never" or that a "collector" piece in the future is out of the question, just that it is not in accordance with the direction that our company has been and is continueing to go."
There have been alot of posts recently that have voiced very strong opinions about the direction that your company is continuing to go.
Joking aside, Come on Sal, As mr. March is fond of saying, there are a potential 17 million customers on a state (CA) where ANY folder size is legal (And a couple of nutz in AK too, I would end my personal boycott if you made a 5-6" folder).
Your company was founded on breaking all of the rules, the pocket clip, the hole, the custom quality at an affordable price. Why stop now? Bowing down to laws that do not even exist borders on lunacy.
It does not even have to be a "tactical" or "self defense" knife. There have been many times where I wish I had a larger blade while camping, but did not carry a fixed blade because of its bulkyness. A 5-6" folder with a clip would be great for backpackers and the like.
"I'm not saying "never" or that a "collector" piece in the future is out of the question, just that it is not in accordance with the direction that our company has been and is continueing to go."
There have been alot of posts recently that have voiced very strong opinions about the direction that your company is continuing to go.
Spydercos are just as much in demand in Texas as in many other places and its about time a solid 5"(please) came out to play. Maybe an upswept style like the martial proto with a rolling lock to back that blade. It would likely be limited production but they would go FAST, if you consider that some people buy two or more at a time. They could be marketed in the same fashion as many Spydercos as utility/sport folders like the Wegner and retain essential tactical qualities for those who can feel and appreciate such uses.
Thanks.
Ken
Thanks.
Ken
Sal Glesser
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5" of blade is a very long leverage arm for a heavy work folder. Lot iof force against that lock, especialloy in a "pass".
If things go well with the Rekat Rolling Lock, We'll draw up a 5" Martial folder "Camp knife" qand see how it looks. Hit me up again in about 3 months. "Cheese" what nags!
sal
If things go well with the Rekat Rolling Lock, We'll draw up a 5" Martial folder "Camp knife" qand see how it looks. Hit me up again in about 3 months. "Cheese" what nags!
sal
Sal Glesser
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Spark - we need a spell check!
Sal,
Sorry about the nagging, I don't live with my parents and don't really have much to nag/beg for from them anymore so I figured I'd nag/beg to those who definitely have things I want.
As a baby member on the forums I apologize and will keep the nagging to a minimum, but I WILL bring this up again in about 3 months. Your time and patience is greatly valued.
Thanks,
Ken
Sorry about the nagging, I don't live with my parents and don't really have much to nag/beg for from them anymore so I figured I'd nag/beg to those who definitely have things I want.
As a baby member on the forums I apologize and will keep the nagging to a minimum, but I WILL bring this up again in about 3 months. Your time and patience is greatly valued.
Thanks,
Ken
I haven`t checked this thread in awhile,what a great suprise to see that Sal may have seen the big ol folder light. Way to go Sal! A really versitile 5" working folder with a Rolling Lock would be great,VG10 and a nice flat grind would be even greater. Sign me up,it`ll be worth the wait! Marcus PS.Sorry for bein a nag,my wife must be rubbing off on me.
Jim March
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A 5" Rolling lock is a GREAT start. Assuming no actual problems (which I DON'T see as likely) that's a CSVG killer right there.
Note that the Texas limit is 5.5" and that's a big market too, so I can really see trying to squeak under that. At least consider 5.45" or so...
Now...if you can set it up with the last 2" or so double edge or close to it so it's sharpenable...
Jim March
Note that the Texas limit is 5.5" and that's a big market too, so I can really see trying to squeak under that. At least consider 5.45" or so...
Now...if you can set it up with the last 2" or so double edge or close to it so it's sharpenable...
Jim March
5.45"?...What a GREAT idea!
I would have suggested squeaking under 5.5" myself(being a Texas resident I try to maintain a safe distance from legal wrath/harrasment, so I keep my asking length at a flat 5"), but am embarrased to suggest anything more right now. I realized I'm already asking for a new version of a product that isn't even completely cleared for production yet!
I think that threads like this are not so much a nag session as they are a brainstorming session that almost anyone anywhere can participate, building on each others input. I know Spyderco has an excellent R&D group that must be brainstorming new ideas all the time and would only gain from checking out our ideas and suggestions, not to mention the possibility of us ELU's getting what we want.
Ken
[This message has been edited by KenN (edited 29 January 1999).]
I would have suggested squeaking under 5.5" myself(being a Texas resident I try to maintain a safe distance from legal wrath/harrasment, so I keep my asking length at a flat 5"), but am embarrased to suggest anything more right now. I realized I'm already asking for a new version of a product that isn't even completely cleared for production yet!
I think that threads like this are not so much a nag session as they are a brainstorming session that almost anyone anywhere can participate, building on each others input. I know Spyderco has an excellent R&D group that must be brainstorming new ideas all the time and would only gain from checking out our ideas and suggestions, not to mention the possibility of us ELU's getting what we want.
Ken
[This message has been edited by KenN (edited 29 January 1999).]
Sal,
I know it hasn't been quite three months yet...but patience is not one of my virtues...That and both REKAT and Camillus have plans of producing a large folder. REKAT's Sifu is going to be a 5.4" with ...get this....1/4" pivot and lock pins...Camillus's entry into the extreme world of large forders is going to be a 5.49" 420v bladed sweetheart (Project BFF1...for Bladeforumsfolder)......Has Spyderco made any plans? Come on Sal...hook us up...
....
YeK
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"Will Dremel for Food!!"
"No, it's a Vaquero Grande in my pocket, but I am happy to see you!"
yekimak@hotmail.com
MegaFolderians Unite!!
Dyslexics Untie!
I know it hasn't been quite three months yet...but patience is not one of my virtues...That and both REKAT and Camillus have plans of producing a large folder. REKAT's Sifu is going to be a 5.4" with ...get this....1/4" pivot and lock pins...Camillus's entry into the extreme world of large forders is going to be a 5.49" 420v bladed sweetheart (Project BFF1...for Bladeforumsfolder)......Has Spyderco made any plans? Come on Sal...hook us up...
YeK
------------------
"Will Dremel for Food!!"
"No, it's a Vaquero Grande in my pocket, but I am happy to see you!"
yekimak@hotmail.com
MegaFolderians Unite!!
Dyslexics Untie!
Sal Glesser
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Yek - sorry, not yet. Let's wait and see what Rekat and Camillus do and how theirs are received. One thought though. Mr. Owen Wood just arrived in the US and will be starting soon. Should have the prototype shop set up by end May. I'll see wjhat we can dream up as far as "concept model" goes. But then you'll be askin' for a production run. Yek, you'll have to grow some patience.
sal
sal
Sal Glesser
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YeK - Owen Wood is a fairly prominent Custom knife maker from South Africa. You can usually catch him at the New York Knife Show, the Guild Show, etc. His knifemaking skills are excellent.
He has just relocated to America with his family and will be residing in the Denver area. He will be joining our R & D staff and will be making our "Concept models". He will also be working with Frank Centofante on the Quality control of the facility.
sal
He has just relocated to America with his family and will be residing in the Denver area. He will be joining our R & D staff and will be making our "Concept models". He will also be working with Frank Centofante on the Quality control of the facility.
sal
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Sal,you are quite a gentleman to decline these nice folks in such a diplomatic way. Not many of the other forums bother to say much nice about anybody's products but their own. I also don't care for the Vaquero line. I also don't see much need in my own life for a folder that big. (Bud Nealy makes some very cool, easily concealable, 5" fixed blades that deploy lightning fast that would be my choice for defence. You are not going to get in any more trouble for one of those than you are a 5" bladed folder in most locales). I know the whole argument for penetration of vital organs, longer reach etc. BUT if you pull a Military (Endura, Calypso, yadda yadda yadda) in self defense and that person does not run then they (a)have a better weapon than you (i.e. firearm (b)are crazy (c)whacked out on drugs or (d) all of the above. In any of these cases you are in deep doo doo and chances are you will be hurt just as bad as they are. Most knife wounds are NOT immediately fatal giving your opponent ample time to make you wish you had done the smart thing and run like hell (I know it's not always possible to evade or escape but an inch of blade length is not going to save your life).
To me it all boils down to this-some like em big and some like em little. This goes for many of the finer things in life and I'm sure we can all use our imaginations to come up with a list of them.
Sal is a business man and I'm sure would like to meet public demand but the legal costs and image cost with the general public may not balance out the profit to be had for a small batch of big folders. The smaller the batch, the higher the price, or the lower the profit margin.
It's obvious that Sal likes knives as much as any of us or he wouldn't be doing what he is doing, but he has to make sure he is making enough money to support his family and buy his own toys. The beauty of this country is that any of us are free to raise the capital to start our own companies (just like good ol Sal) to fill this niche in the market. Or save your pennies and buy a BIG folder of your own design from a custom maker. It seems though that most of the custom makers don't want to mess with folders that big because of all the problems inherent. Chris Reeve makes some of the strongest folders around and he thinks its too much leverage for a folder lock. Heck, even the Mad Dog carries a large Sebenza and he doesn't seem to like any folders!
I know this is long, but I seem to get more verbose as the night goes on. I hope I am not stepping on anybodies toes (esp the ones with the really big folders in their pockets ;-D) but why wait for some one else to make the knife you want when there are so many ways to do it yourself. That seems to be my fifty two cents worth.
Paul
To me it all boils down to this-some like em big and some like em little. This goes for many of the finer things in life and I'm sure we can all use our imaginations to come up with a list of them.
Sal is a business man and I'm sure would like to meet public demand but the legal costs and image cost with the general public may not balance out the profit to be had for a small batch of big folders. The smaller the batch, the higher the price, or the lower the profit margin.
It's obvious that Sal likes knives as much as any of us or he wouldn't be doing what he is doing, but he has to make sure he is making enough money to support his family and buy his own toys. The beauty of this country is that any of us are free to raise the capital to start our own companies (just like good ol Sal) to fill this niche in the market. Or save your pennies and buy a BIG folder of your own design from a custom maker. It seems though that most of the custom makers don't want to mess with folders that big because of all the problems inherent. Chris Reeve makes some of the strongest folders around and he thinks its too much leverage for a folder lock. Heck, even the Mad Dog carries a large Sebenza and he doesn't seem to like any folders!
I know this is long, but I seem to get more verbose as the night goes on. I hope I am not stepping on anybodies toes (esp the ones with the really big folders in their pockets ;-D) but why wait for some one else to make the knife you want when there are so many ways to do it yourself. That seems to be my fifty two cents worth.
Paul