Looking for a "Beginner" Sushi Knife for "Home Use."

[jdm61]

AEB-L is kind of the western stainless for folks who like carbon steel. It lacks the ultimate abrasion resistance of the stainless PM "super steels' but takes a MUCH finer edge, one in the same neighborhood as 52100 or even the legendary Hitachi white steels.

 

[LasagnaBurrito]

AEB-L is kind of the western stainless for folks who like carbon steel. It lacks the ultimate abrasion resistance of the stainless PM "super steels' but takes a MUCH finer edge, one in the same neighborhood as 52100 or even the legendary Hitachi white steels.

AEB-L is the steel type? Is that what I should be looking for you think?


I really like these Konosuke knives that were mentioned above, seems like "thin" is what we want, and these knives are super thin...

Problem is they are all out of stock, and it's making me RAGE.... LOL!


This one's still in stock, and 50$ less than the 240....

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohd21wa.html


thanks for all of the help jdm61. I feel I didn't really reply to a couple of your posts, but I appreciate all of your input.


There seem to be al ot of other "laser: knives, but people seem to say that they are only good for a select few things, and not for slicing through tough things like meat?

Thanks.

 

[jdm61]

You are welcome. AEB-L is a stainless razor blade steel that has been made for decades by the company now known as Bohler-Uddeholm, a division of Voestalpine of Austria. I was originally concocted by Uddeholm in Sweden. 13C26 is Saandvik's versions of the same recipe. It may not be THE stainless for kitchen knives, but it has become VERY popular of late.
I don't know about the HD steel. My only experience with the semi-stainless stuff from Japan is with the "Carbonext" steel that JCK uses on their house brand knives. I have been very pleased with my 240 gyuto but it will get some little stains if you are not careful.

AEB-L is the steel type? Is that what I should be looking for you think?


I really like these Konosuke knives that were mentioned above, seems like "thin" is what we want, and these knives are super thin...

Problem is they are all out of stock, and it's making me RAGE.... LOL!


This one's still in stock, and 50$ less than the 240....

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohd21wa.html


thanks for all of the help jdm61. I feel I didn't really reply to a couple of your posts, but I appreciate all of your input.


There seem to be al ot of other "laser: knives, but people seem to say that they are only good for a select few things, and not for slicing through tough things like meat?

Thanks.

 

[LasagnaBurrito]

You are welcome. AEB-L is a stainless razor blade steel that has been made for decades by the company now known as Bohler-Uddeholm, a division of Voestalpine of Austria. I was originally concocted by Uddeholm in Sweden. 13C26 is Saandvik's versions of the same recipe. It may not be THE stainless for kitchen knives, but it has become VERY popular of late.
I don't know about the HD steel. My only experience with the semi-stainless stuff from Japan is with the "Carbonext" steel that JCK uses on their house brand knives. I have been very pleased with my 240 gyuto but it will get some little stains if you are not careful.

Thanks.

So do you think it's better to go with a more "Stainless" steel or prefer carbon?

I guess for beginners the more stainless and less "maintaining" of the knife is preferred, but that also seems to come with less edge retention and the need for more sharpening, so it's a give and take situation, imo.


It seems carbon steels are the way to go though? Really sharp, you just need to make sure to maintain it properly!


That begs the question about what types are more preferred or not? I see usually white #2 and Blue #2, but I assume there are others?

 

[jdm61]

White #2 is very pure plain carbon steel that has around 1.1-1.2% carbon, .30% manganese and very little else. It has exceptionally low amounts of some of the alloying/trace elements that you do not want, like sulphur and phosphorus. Blue #2 is also very clean alloyed steel with about the same carbon content but around .50% chromium and 1.1% or so tungsten added. It will be more abrasion resistant. One reason that some kitchen knife folks like AEB-L is that is the relatively corrosion resistant, but behaves more like a carbon steel as far as taking a very fine stable edge and ease of sharpening. It has no large primary carbides like other stainless steels with higher carbon and alloying element content. It is a very simple, low alloyed steel by stainless standards.

Thanks.

So do you think it's better to go with a more "Stainless" steel or prefer carbon?

I guess for beginners the more stainless and less "maintaining" of the knife is preferred, but that also seems to come with less edge retention and the need for more sharpening, so it's a give and take situation, imo.


It seems carbon steels are the way to go though? Really sharp, you just need to make sure to maintain it properly!


That begs the question about what types are more preferred or not? I see usually white #2 and Blue #2, but I assume there are others?

 

[LasagnaBurrito]

If you don't have a good main chef's knife, that is going to be a much more important purchase than a specialized sushi knife. If you really want a dedicated sushi knife, though, nobody here is going to argue.
Why are your rolls falling apart? Is the nori tearing when you cut it? If so, this could be an issue of the knife's geometry, sharpness, or your cutting technique. A new knife may or may not solve this.
A gyuto or other type of chefs knife can and will work for cutting sushi rolls. You can think of a sujihiki as just a really short gyuto. If you do decide to get a sunihiki right now, you might want to get a gyuto, too (or a santoku, or whatever it is that you prefer as a main chefs knife).
Chris

White #2 is very pure plain carbon steel that has around 1.1-1.2% carbon, .30% manganese and very little else. It has exceptionally low amounts of some of the alloying/trace elements that you do not want, like sulphur and phosphorus. Blue #2 is also very clean alloyed steel with about the same carbon content but around .50% chromium and 1.1% or so tungsten added. It will be more abrasion resistant. One reason that some kitchen knife folks like AEB-L is that is the relatively corrosion resistant, but behaves more like a carbon steel as far as taking a very fine stable edge and ease of sharpening. It has no large primary carbides like other stainless steels with higher carbon and alloying element content. It is a very simple, low alloyed steel by stainless standards.

Interesting.. I don't really see blades with that steel type though, I'll have to keep looking.

 

[jdm61]

Which steel type are you not seeing? A number of the Japanese makers list knives made from "Swedish stainless steel" That might be AEB-L/12C26 or it could be 19C28. The Blue #2 is quite common. Yo will see AEB-L knives from American sellers like CKTG and the semi custom and custom makers.

Interesting.. I don't really see blades with that steel type though, I'll have to keep looking.

 

[LasagnaBurrito]

If you don't have a good main chef's knife, that is going to be a much more important purchase than a specialized sushi knife. If you really want a dedicated sushi knife, though, nobody here is going to argue.
Why are your rolls falling apart? Is the nori tearing when you cut it? If so, this could be an issue of the knife's geometry, sharpness, or your cutting technique. A new knife may or may not solve this.
A gyuto or other type of chefs knife can and will work for cutting sushi rolls. You can think of a sujihiki as just a really short gyuto. If you do decide to get a sunihiki right now, you might want to get a gyuto, too (or a santoku, or whatever it is that you prefer as a main chefs knife).
Chris

Which steel type are you not seeing? A number of the Japanese makers list knives made from "Swedish stainless steel" That might be AEB-L/12C26 or it could be 19C28. The Blue #2 is quite common. Yo will see AEB-L knives from American sellers like CKTG and the semi custom and custom makers.

The type you were mentioning AEB-L Thanks I found it on CKTG!

There are a few, I'm checking out the "Richmond Lasers." Not too sure how good Richmond is as I've never head of them.

People seem to like the lasers, any thoughts on them?








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I've been looking for a knife as a gift, but honestly, I'm thinking about buying myself a knife too... I don't think I should buy 2 knives at once, so I think I'll buy one, see how he likes it, how I like it, and then go from there.

I'm a lefty so I don't know how much of an issue a suji or gyuto would be if it is a 50/50 bevel. The handle might be an issue though.

I'm assume I would be looking for a Gyuto for myself for an all purpose knife? What wouldn't I be able to cut with a Gyuto? Just bones through meat? I can cut fruits, veggies, and such with it?

I would assume a laser might be an issue with some things since it's so thin, and flexible.

Thank you all.

 

[jdm61]

That is Mark Richmond's house brand. He is the owner of CKTG.

The type you were mentioning AEB-L Thanks I found it on CKTG!

There are a few, I'm checking out the "Richmond Lasers." Not too sure how good Richmond is as I've never head of them.

People seem to like the lasers, any thoughts on them?








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


I've been looking for a knife as a gift, but honestly, I'm thinking about buying myself a knife too... I don't think I should buy 2 knives at once, so I think I'll buy one, see how he likes it, how I like it, and then go from there.

I'm a lefty so I don't know how much of an issue a suji or gyuto would be if it is a 50/50 bevel. The handle might be an issue though.

I'm assume I would be looking for a Gyuto for myself for an all purpose knife? What wouldn't I be able to cut with a Gyuto? Just bones through meat? I can cut fruits, veggies, and such with it?

I would assume a laser might be an issue with some things since it's so thin, and flexible.

Thank you all.

 

[LasagnaBurrito]

If you don't have a good main chef's knife, that is going to be a much more important purchase than a specialized sushi knife. If you really want a dedicated sushi knife, though, nobody here is going to argue.
Why are your rolls falling apart? Is the nori tearing when you cut it? If so, this could be an issue of the knife's geometry, sharpness, or your cutting technique. A new knife may or may not solve this.
A gyuto or other type of chefs knife can and will work for cutting sushi rolls. You can think of a sujihiki as just a really short gyuto. If you do decide to get a sunihiki right now, you might want to get a gyuto, too (or a santoku, or whatever it is that you prefer as a main chefs knife).
Chris

That is Mark Richmond's house brand. He is the owner of CKTG.

Thanks, so I would assume his knives are good as well? I saw a video on a richmond Gyuto Laser, I think it was AEB-L, and he was questioning if the edge was dull at 10 mins, but didn't seem to be. He had a wooden cutting board, and was cutting into it, so I'm not sure if that's not what he should have been doing/using. I hear you shouldn't touch the cutting board at all? What materials are good for the cutting boards in general?

Thanks


IT seems that the Konosuke's are OOS and IDk when they will come back... Soemoen was questioning if HD2 was AEB-L, but I don't think so...


http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riul270gyhds.html

This knife is interesting under the HD2, but pricey. Konosuke made it, but it's under Richmond's name? lol...

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/rilaaest.html

Then there is the 240 and 270 on these..

It seems that it's not actually "240" but 235mm, so the 270 is smaller too... Thoughts on size since these knives are LIGHT and al ittle shorter?


Also, I decided I'm going to buy myself a knife too... I don't think I should buy them both at the same time, but I think I'll roll with this AEB-L since everyone seems to be recommending it all of a sudden LOL .

I don't know if I want a loser, or what. I don't like the knives I have now with a heavy handle, Idk if I would prefer a heavy blade though.. I think the light knife would be perfect for me, especially since I have herniated discs in my neck, and have grip issues sometimes .

Thanks for all of the help!

 

[LasagnaBurrito]

Also @Jdm, do you have any recommendations for stones?

Also thoughts on "electric sharpeners?"

This other site I'm on was having a debate on one person mentioned that electric sharpeners can get hot, which can ruin the "temper" of the knife, which will ruin the knife itself?

One person mentioned this towards my question about stones

For freehand sharpening, you'll want at least a coarse stone for occasional reprofiling, a medium-coarse stone for sharpening, and a medium-fine stone for polishing. One of the best affordable examples of the first is the Beston 500, two of the best affordable examples of the second are the Bester 1200 and the Arashiyama 1k, and two of the best affordable examples of the third are the Suehiro Rika (it's 3k-5k depending on mud buildup) and the Arashiyama 6k. CKtG sells a package deal of the Beston 500, the Bester 1200, and the Suehiro Rika. If you can afford even better stones, Japanese Knife Imports sells a package of the Gesshin 400, Gesshin 2k, and Gesshin 6k. Those stones are said to cut faster yet leave a higher polish than other stones at similar grit levels. They have an amazing reputation. If and when I switch from my Edge Pro to freehand, I'm almost certainly getting Gesshin stones.

I highly recommend taking that thread about the Chef's Choice with a grain of salt (or less). The negative opinions in that thread were not by people who use the Chef's Choice. If memory serves, they were a mix of people who were speaking from experience with other electric sharpeners eating too much metal and of anecdotes someone heard about someone who used the Chef's Choice improperly and damaged the knife (I think it was the tip). I've heard or read from a number of people who have actually used the Chef's Choice (one who comes to mind is the former CT contributor BDL), and my understanding is that as long as you read the instructions, you are not at any greater risk of damaging your knife than with stones, and the speed at which it eats metal is at the order of magnitude of stones, not of metal-eating electric sharpeners. The Chef's Choice is the one good electric sharpener, and is a virtual necessity if the gift's recipient isn't going to be sharpening knives by some more manual means [1]. That said, the Chef's Choice does have downsides, just not those. The downsides are that it restricts you to one or two preset bevel angles and gets your edge pretty sharp rather than extremely sharp, so it's probably not worth it on premium knives that can take an extremely sharp edge. It's probably more worth it on less expensive high-end knives. That said, if this person doesn't have any means of sharpening and certainly none better than a Chef's Choice, then any premium knife is going to be a waste of a gift unless you also give a sharpening kit. Sharpening is far more important than the knife. Decent sharpening (even a Chef's

He also mentioned that he uses an elextric and was mentioning that I might want to look into a "Chef's pro."

I've never heard people recommending electric sharpeners until the first thread popped up, and now this guy posted this in my other thread.

 

[B34NS]

Nothing against those Richmond AEB-L blades, but there's much much better out there for that kinda money.

 

[LasagnaBurrito]

If you don't have a good main chef's knife, that is going to be a much more important purchase than a specialized sushi knife. If you really want a dedicated sushi knife, though, nobody here is going to argue.
Why are your rolls falling apart? Is the nori tearing when you cut it? If so, this could be an issue of the knife's geometry, sharpness, or your cutting technique. A new knife may or may not solve this.
A gyuto or other type of chefs knife can and will work for cutting sushi rolls. You can think of a sujihiki as just a really short gyuto. If you do decide to get a sunihiki right now, you might want to get a gyuto, too (or a santoku, or whatever it is that you prefer as a main chefs knife).
Chris

Nothing against those Richmond AEB-L blades, but there's much much better out there for that kinda money.

someone else seemed to have commented on the grind, so I guess I'll stay away. I emailed Mr. Richmond to get details about the Konosuke restocks and asked him abo ut a knife so I will see qwhat he replied.

 

[LasagnaBurrito]

This was recommended by Mr Richmond http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kogi24gy.html

I like it, it looks nice, seems very thin, like a laser, and a bit on the light side, but not as light as a LAser. I might go with this one

Someone mentioned I might get a "beefier" blade, which he recommended.

Ok, here are a couple recommendations for your dad. I think you're right to get him a gyuto as a first, general purpose knife. There are good stainless wa handled knives in your price range that would be a good gift. Modern stainless can get just as sharpe and hold and edge well so I usually recommend them for gifts.

This would be what I would like as a gift. It's a really nice knife and I'm shocked it's still in stock. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kogi24gy.html
This is less money and it's an excellent knife. I especially like it for your dad since it's not super thin and it's fully stainless and hand made: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/sugi240gy.html
Same with this one. Nice knife, good price, better handle than the other two and made by a little shop in northwest Japan: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/rigilagy24.html"

maiko Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:49 pm


I have both the first two knives recommended by Mark and would more highly recommend the Sukenari as a first J-knife as it is a bit beefier of a blade. The Konosuke is very thin behind the edge and seems like it requires a bit more finesse. I'd recommend the Ginsan steel too for anyone that likes carbon but wants stainless.

SteveG Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:59 pm
Forum Moderator


+1 to the Sukenari Ginsan 240 Gyuto. It's a great knife with good performance. As maiko mentioned, it's got enough thickness at the edge as to be a bit more forgiving during use.

Thanks

 

[jdm61]

Nice. Are you going to pop the extra money for a custom handle? That headache you thought was gone just came back, didn't it?

 

[LasagnaBurrito]

If you don't have a good main chef's knife, that is going to be a much more important purchase than a specialized sushi knife. If you really want a dedicated sushi knife, though, nobody here is going to argue.
Why are your rolls falling apart? Is the nori tearing when you cut it? If so, this could be an issue of the knife's geometry, sharpness, or your cutting technique. A new knife may or may not solve this.
A gyuto or other type of chefs knife can and will work for cutting sushi rolls. You can think of a sujihiki as just a really short gyuto. If you do decide to get a sunihiki right now, you might want to get a gyuto, too (or a santoku, or whatever it is that you prefer as a main chefs knife).
Chris

Nice. Are you going to pop the extra money for a custom handle? That headache you thought was gone just came back, didn't it?

For my dad? Probably not, they cost quite a bit...

For myself, I will most likely get one...

I want handles like this...

http://www.chefknivestogoforum.com/wa-handles-a-start-t2325-20.html


This is by far the nicest handle I've ever seen... I will cry if I cannot get a handle like this... HAHA...

I've seen a lot of crazy color combos that other handle makers have, like some crazy blue ones, so I'm not sure if this is rare, or if it's just something I need to look for... because... wow.....


Do you have any comments on the above knives jdm? Some peopel seem to not like the Ginsan steel because of how it's made with 3 layers, but still seems like a good blade. A few people seem to recommend the Sukanari first....


Idk what to do, I feel I might be getting too far ahead of myself, and might just want a cheap knife.... Then eentually get a better one... But I figured go big now, and keep the one knife, but I need to find that "perfect" knife...








AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


I feel like the Konosuke HD2 Laser would be great "for me" but for my dad, I don't know .

I also figure to wait to buy whetstones until I ask him what exactly he wants to do....

Thanks again for any help

 

[ichor]

Let me make this really simple for you. You are jumping from one vendor to the next, one brand/ style to the next (cause you don't know what you're doin' and clearly don't really know what you want/need) You have too many unanswered questions to possibly absorb and understand the answers, no matter how well intended. Call Jon at Japanese Knife Imports and he will have you situated in no time. For honesty, integrity, knowledge and quality products, there is no one better than Jon....you can trust him and he will ask the important questions, clear out all the debris and cut to the chase .... Period. Good luck....let us know what you end up buying.

 

[LasagnaBurrito]

Let me make this really simple for you. You are jumping from one vendor to the next, one brand/ style to the next (cause you don't know what you're doin' and clearly don't really know what you want/need) You have too many unanswered questions to possibly absorb and understand the answers, no matter how well intended. Call Jon at Japanese Knife Imports and he will have you situated in no time. For honesty, integrity, knowledge and quality products, there is no one better than Jon....you can trust him and he will ask the important questions, clear out all the debris and cut to the chase .... Period. Good luck....let us know what you end up buying.

Yup, I am jumping around because I had no idea what I wanted, I just was asking questions of each vendor to get opinions, since I am on 5 different forums, getting answers by multiple people. I just relay the information back from forums that have been giving more info than others. This is all part of learning, so yes, I didn't know what I was doing, and yes I don't know what I want, but I am learning more each day, so that's what counts.

I've absorbed a lot of info, besides maybe a few posts by jdm on steel, on the first page .

I messaged Jon on Facebook that the site was down and he mentioned he was sick but got it back up. I tried pming him after, but got no response, so I will try again. Mark from ChefKnivesToGo has been very helpful in getting back to me as well though.

That is one of the problems, which you see, is that there are so many sites, and so many options it's hard to pick "the knife." The first site I was given, was Korin, but an older sushi chef. Then I was given JKI, JapaneseChefknives, and JapaneseNaturalStones. Then I was given ChefKnivesToGo, which is what I've been looking at the most lately, due a forum member who has been back and forth pming me since he has 2 konosuke knives, and seems to love them.

I probably should just go for cheaper knives, figure out what exactly I want, and then go for more expensive knives, but I figured only spending the money once would be easier, but probably not better, so I don't know...


I like the idea of the "Laser Knives" so i personally might pick up one of the HD2 Knives from Konosuke when they are back in stock, but otherwise not too sure what I want to get for dad....

I want to get a feel for some knives though, and see what I like, but even then I would have to figure out/ask if the knife I'm buying, is what I want....

 

[ichor]

Well, its a shame that Jon is sick cause he's the man IMHO. Koki at JCK (where I bought my first) would be my next choice, but it's not like you can pick up the phone and call him. tho' busy as he is, he's pretty good at answering email. I bought my first Japanese knife coming up on 15 years ago from Koki. I now have 20 or so, in various brands and price ranges, so I think I know what you're going through. Unless there is some pressing urgency....there's no reson to rush. Take your time, and avoid regrets later.

 

[LasagnaBurrito]

Well, its a shame that Jon is sick cause he's the man IMHO. Koki at JCK (where I bought my first) would be my next choice, but it's not like you can pick up the phone and call him. tho' busy as he is, he's pretty good at answering email. I bought my first Japanese knife coming up on 15 years ago from Koki. I now have 20 or so, in various brands and price ranges, so I think I know what you're going through. Unless there is some pressing urgency....there's no reson to rush. Take your time, and avoid regrets later.

Yeah, I sent him another message, so I will see if he responds to it or not. I like to type more, than to talk, since I have a billion questions and it's easier to sort out thoughts into text.

What kinds of knives do you have and any you recommend? Have you ever used ChefKnivesToGo?


I have been looking for a knife for a month. His birthday is coming up in a couple of weeks, so I want to get him this knife, before it passes, and that would make me sad .

So I'm trying hard to learn all I can, and in the month I definitely learned a lot for sure, but there is so much more I need to learn, and that first comes with using some knives.

I have a "Faberware" set, which I don't know if it's cheap crap, or decent, but I notice the handle is heavier than the blade, and I feel that I don't like the heavier handle, and might prefer a heavier blade, or more balanced, but I know that's one part of picking the knife...

I felt the Laser knives would be good due to being very thin. I think of myself personally, because (if I hadn't mentioned already), I have herniated discs in my neck, and it's hard holding onto heavier objects for too long, so I figured I lighter knife would be best...

Someone I've been speaking to for awhile recommended Konosuke, so I am looking at them mostly (any experience with Konosuke)?

There are tons of companies that seem "good" some "great/amazing...." There are tons of choices, and it's definitely hard to find a good knife, especially in the 200$+ range, even 100$ for a knife is a lot.


As one person said I might as well buy a few cheaper knives, get a feel for the knives/let him get a feel for the knives, and then go into it more....


I don't know how much he will use it, but I want to get into cooking more myself. He just mentioned yesterday or the day before he wanted to get back into sushi making, so this is the perfect time for me to get it. He also loves to eat oranges/grapefruit, and we cut lemons/lime as well, so I think something more stain-resistant/stainless would work. , as someone mentioned if they cut any lemons their carbon knife would "rust in 30 seconds..." My dad has a cleaver that he just told me is apparently made of "Iron" so he has to wipe it down, or else it will rust... It seems he knows what he's doing with rust metals, so a carbon knife/semi-stainless shouldn't be an issue with him.


Thanks for the advice, and I definitely don't want to regret it, which is why I want to make sure my purchase is a good one, and I get a knife that I wont be sad over. Even though all the knives seem to be "good choices" I want to find "as best a choice as I can..."