Looking for ideas to help teach sharpening class

J

Jamesh Bond

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Jan 14, 2007
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Hey all!

I'm going to be teaching a VERY basic sharpening class to a bunch of guys who train with and carry knives for basic edc (spyderco mostly). None of them are interested in this like we are, but still acknowledge the need for a sharp blade.

I've been asked to come up with a distilled crash course that will simply allow then to maintain their blades.

I have a pretty good outline in mind but would like to get an idea pot going regarding holding an angle, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, doing it consistently and repeatably.

Remember, these are guys who just want to have sharp edges, not understand or spend time on them.

We will be just be matching pre-existing angles, so I need to present a method for inexperienced sharpeners to use to accomplish that. They need to be able to recognize when they drift off the edge plane and start hitting the shoulder or the apex.

Well known examples of what I'm after include:
- the classic "pretend you're shaving a thin slice off the stone. (accuracy not the best, but works great to microbevel)
- listening to certain surfaces as practice. (takes a long time to understand; prone to inaccuracies too.)

I'm really looking for the simplest mnemonic, trick, or rule of thumb that can still produce usable results with minimum experience, and no jigs or guides.

I know what I am asking here!

So, pretend you have to teach this to a five year old!

Anyway, hope my request is clear. Looking forward to some inspiration.

Thanks in advance!

ETA: I thought I had posted this in maintenence and tinkering. Mods please move if it isn't too much hassle. Trying to quit coffee and it's not going well! Sorry!
 
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Free hand sharpening can be learned but you need to practice it until you get it right. There is no free lunch. Even with catchy trick techniques like it seems you are looking for, they can only be useful if you practice them and know what you are doing. Sharp maker might be a good investment if they truly want the least amount of commitment to learning.

The sharpie technique is how I learned a lot about angles. Also, there is often no need for a complete resharpen. Touch-ups on a cheap ceramic rod can keep your edge sharp for a long time. Last, practice a bunch on cheap kitchen knives.

You might get better answers in maintenance and tinkering.
 
Craytab beat me to it. The sharpie technique that he refers to will work well for letting people know if they are high or low with their angle. Just color the secondary bevel / sharpened edge with a sharpie marker, take a pass, inspect to see if you removed all of the marker with your single pass.
 
You take a 2 by 4 or a wooden board or whatever and a good sharpened blade. You swipe the blade on it as if your sharpening or just shaving wood. If your angle is too low blade will be sliding off. When you hit the sweet spot the blade catches the wood and you ride it through to the tip scraping of a little tiny bit. That in my understanding can build the skill of maintaining the angle and also teach you how to feel it. I figured this out myself maybe it will help your pupils. Take it for what it's worth. Let me know if you need clarification. You practice a stroke away from yourself and towards.

Ps. Also point them to a sharpmaker lol
 
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It seems everyone goes quickly to the SharpMaker, I would suggest a far less expensive option that works as well, the Lansky 4 rod turn box. Easy and cheap.
 
Thank you for your responses. Being uninterested in sharpening automatically disqualifies these guys from almost all these answers, which I agree are the best.

Sergeua, you nailed it. That's very similar to the slicing motion, which I think will get them going. A simple attack/feedback technique that won't require experience and still produce some kind of result. Thank you.

I've been considering both the sharpmaker and Martin's Washboard, if anyone expresses interest.

Anything else similar to these?
 
I'd put a 30-degree back bevel on their blades and have them keep their edges sharp on the 40-degree Sharpmaker stone. Because most Spydercos come with a 30- to 35-degree inclusive edge, you'd typically not have to even put on the back bevel. Basically, they'd just be maintaining a microbevel, which is the easiest and fastest way to keep a knife sharp for someone who knows and cares little about more advanced sharpening techniques.

But you should teach them about the burr. Even with a microbevel, you want to attend to the burr.
 
Thank you.

Like I said. I know my stuff and I know exactly what I plan to go over.

I'm just feeling around here for creative ways to say, 'Here is what you do/look for to keep your strokes where they need to be.' That's it.

Its like teaching a brand new student to down block. I'm not going to explain that you're not actually blocking a kick but this is a actually a funnel and shield motion that combines all the blocks into one once you understand it correctly and you can use this arm shape to cover pull off anything like pass or jam or intercept or dumog throw but the last thing you want to do is actually block a kick and thats just a teaching aid because these bones are too small and and a chamber is simply an exaggerated motion of what occurs in application to train in a sharper response and don't forget to relax and breath and. . . . .

No. They can't even make a fist yet, let alone interpret any of that.

Instead, i say 'Put that hand out to aim with. Wrap the other one around your head to protect it. Slide that hand down your aimer and they trade places to do your block.'

This works with both kids and adults since it's so dumbed down. It gets them going right away so they can actually start doing stuff, making it work, and having fun, even if it isn't the full Monte yet. They can get to that later.

My job is to get them going now, and in doing so, make it interesting, understandable and FUNCTIONAL enough to then make them want to come back to learn all the rest and perfect it. Because they saw the effectiveness right off the bat, the end result will now seem attainable instead of mystical.

Kinda sounds like knives and sharpening a bit, huh? ☺

Does this example make sense? feel like no one is understanding my question, which is no doubt my fault.
 
I'm not sure if this falls into "no jigs or guides", but something as simple as the ol' "put a couple of coins on the end of the stone", or something similar to give them a reference point, is my suggestion. I watched a guy teach a class at a local sporting goods store a while back... and he used the WorkSharp Guided Sharpener that has the reference angles at each end of the stone. Watching users set the blade on the reference for each stroke starting out, quickly showed them if they were holding a consistent angle, and hold it the entire stroke.

Not saying you have to buy that setup... just an example. Coins, matchbooks (if they're still any around...), just something to give them a reference. If they use the same thing each time... it may take a bit the first sharpening to "set the edge" to the reference... but after that, it always give them something to fall back on... especially if they're not going to invest the time practicing.

Hope that makes sense.
 
hangmanshammer said:
It seems everyone goes quickly to the SharpMaker, I would suggest a far less expensive option that works as well, the Lansky 4 rod turn box. Easy and cheap.
Click to expand...

As much as I love my sharpmaker, I think this is a great idea. Especially since many will probably not be willing to take the time to truly learn. A lansky turnbox (with the diamond rods, about $25), and a Sharpie marker.

Very easy to learn, and most should pick up on it quickly. You can use it teach consistency, but it's easy, since they just need to hold the knife perpendicular to the floor.

From there, they can go to more advanced stuff, if they are interested.
 
So what are these guys training with EDC's? You said you were asked. Who asked you to teach these guys(who, by your own words, don't seem very into actually learning sharpening skills)? Being qualified enough to be chosen to instruct a sharpening class to several people, you should already know there is no "easy" sharpening trick. And, as was mentioned, that does seem like what you are looking for. I apologize, I'm not trying to be rude to you. Forgive me if it sounds that way. I am just not really understanding why, when you are an instructor, you would seek advice?

If I were to teach a class on sharpening, I would simply give my program. And I would clarify each step, based on the steel, grind, etc., I'm working with.
 
I've taught a sharpening class. Once. It didn't unfold anything like I expected. I would do it differently now. You should expect that you'll have a wide range of understanding, or lack thereof. The good news is, you have people that want to make a blade screaming sharp. If they are excited about *that* idea, then they can be taught.

To your specific questions: I think that my Seven Secrets article applies pretty well. Specifically, I would focus on #1 Feeling the Bevel On The Stone, #4 observation, and #6, The Burr. Though #1 and #2 go together really well. If you use 2 hands to guide the blade, it really increases your ability to discern when the blade bevel is truly flat on the stone and not digging in, or riding on the shoulder.

In case you haven't seen my article:

http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/the-seven-secrets-of-sharpening.1353408/

Ultimately, you have to be comfortable with the tools and techniques that you teach to your students. I would advise you to rehearse your lectures and illustrations. You'll probably find that you understand your "flow of teaching" far better after a few rehearsals. Even if they are in your car while driving, or while you're taking a shower. Rehearsals are how we all get better at presentation.

Good luck. I want to hear about your class after!!

Brian.
 
Thanks guys.

Briefly. This is a group of guys training primarily in Martial Blade Concepts. Most of them are only interested in the defensive side of the blade, but some also use their blades for EDC as well.

Brian, I have read and benefited from your Seven Secrets many times over. Love it!

The coins, sharpie, and sharpmaker already have plans in this.

My specific goal for this class is to take what took me years to understand, and come up with a way to accelerate certain things for them. In this case, Keeping the established bevel flat on the sharpening medium. And knowing when and where you've deviated.

This CAN be done. We did/do it with our martial arts and combatives students and it's amazing. Tiny little kids and giant macho MMA fighters have came in and shown the same results. Things that took myself and the other instructors YEARS to learn are being learned in months when we teach it simply because we figured out how to boil things down into concepts and key principles.

Its true that real skill takes a lot of practice. But it is totally doable to severely shorten the learning of said skill.

Anyway, I know what I'm asking. I just thought maybe someone had done with sharpening what we did with teaching our students, and had some hidden trick I never heard about before. Never know.

Yeah, I'm really grasping at straws at this point. I suspected this thread would go like this, but it's actually kind of encouraging. Most of my topics lately end up as dead ends, which actually isn't disheartening. It instead means that I have a pretty solid knowledge base and am not missing some mystery like I sometimes think lol! I'll take that!

Thank you guys for participating, and to the mods for moving the thread. I don't think I will get what I had hoped for, but look forward to reading more responses if they happen!

Hell, we can morph this into kind of a broader general technique thread and see who shows up to rehash some stuff a lot of us already know. If anyone wants to, that is.

I, for one, benefit greatly from revisiting things. New realizations and such keep me always learning. Maybe some ideas will evolve out of it. . . .

Jason and Martin are exceedingly good at describing the nuances of technique through written word. Hope to hear from them.

Thx again all!
 
The most effective way overall is to demonstrate and have them learn what it feels like to have the edge on the stone. The shoulder has a deeper pitch as it rides the stone, the very cutting edge has a higher pitch. Two handed "Japanese style" is the best way go in the same way shooting handgun with two hands thumbs forward is better than one - more meat on the tool and in the case of edge work, better tactile feedback through the fingertips.

Imagine walking along, your fingers on a wrought iron fence vs your palm as it rumbles by.

If you can learn this you can sharpen anything, or at least know why something isn't getting sharp. Combine this with the Sharpie trick and you're in good shape.

Trying to teach a crash course based on rote repetition will lead to some successes but I'd imagine a much higher failure rate. In my own journey with minimal outside input, once I understood the tactile factor involved, things got easier immediately. This becomes the foundation for learning true angle control, but in reality this alone is enough - a few degrees here or there is inconsequential as long as the edge isn't overly broad to begin with. Join both sides to a new edge along the entire length.

After that, burr removal. You grind the steel, the abrasive is not 100% efficient, there are left overs. Lessen pressure and grind distance, increase angle, remove burr. Don't ignore tactile feedback.

Microbevels to finish are easier to employ than learning precision burr removal at the refining stages.

Grind a new edge, remove the coarse burr, microbevel. This is perfectly functional for 90% of all cutting. Coarse, medium, microbevel the fine. Impart the "why" of using a progression, but don't go too far into the riddle of steel. Touch on "thin is sharp", but again, don't oppress them with too much info. Point the way to understanding why "sharp" might not = "cuts well".

This is no easy thing you attempt, so limit your goal and just leave them with the very, very basics.

Edit to add: for self defense application, esp where a draw is commonly used, I found that reinforced usage where the blade was employed with a trap or pat the edge finish didn't matter much - a coarse or highly refined edge cut through canvas over closed cell foam with almost equal depth etc - is only unsupported cuts that favor one edge type over another. Raise burr, remove, 90% good to go.

Good Luck!
 
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Nailed it!

That approach is pretty much what I had planned. Was just hoping for a few more tricks on the tactile side of things in this thread. Tho I admit I didn't really expect there to be many left.

As always, you explained it better. I haven't had enough practice teaching this to learn the simpmest way to describe it yet.

This also supports Brian's advice to rehearse. Gotta do some teachin' if you wanna become a good teacher!

Thank you all for your time, guys! Im going to review all this and see if I can streamline things a bit more.
 
Jamesh Bond said:
Hey ..
I'm really looking for the simplest mnemonic, trick, or rule of thumb that can still produce usable results with minimum experience, and no jigs or guides.

I know what I am asking here!

So, pretend you have to teach this to a five year old!
Click to expand...
Hi,
This is what I'd do with five year olds,
It should take all of five minutes to ten to teach both instinctive and guided knife sharpening,
Put knife to coffee cup about about this angle,
rub for 30 count or however long it takes to sing happy birthday once or twice (like washing hands)
then switch sides and rub the same,
then try slicing some paper,
if you can slice paper stop,
otherwise repeat and sing again one side other side,
no more than 5 to 10 times

If you feel a burr , like you tried to get advanced sharpness and made a burr,
increase the angle waay up like DOUBLE, slice once flips other way and once and flip other way,
then back to rubbing at original angle for a 10count
DONE, LASER SHARP!

Thats two parts,
part one rub left side,
part two rub right side,
repeat until slice paper

part three is advanced , increase angle short rub , then back down original angle short rub

having trouble keeping angle? use little circles, or use a binder clip

Then repeat demonstration with a $1 sharpening stone and a binder clip, and raise burr, have them feel it, show the burr slicing pape roughly, then double the angle and cut burr off, show how it zips through paper now, maybe shave some arm hair if you/they can handle that

Thats the first 5-10 minutes depending on how well behaved they are.

Spend the next 5-20 minutes having them try sharpening by themselves,
then with a buddy,
walk around help,
get everybody from dull to paper slicing at least twice

Cost of equipment including tax $2.20 MAXIMUM, $1.20-$1.30 if you split a pack of binder clips
At end of class ask who wants to buy a stone for $1

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see an old boyscout (jackknife) do it its Instinctive Knife Sharpening

update: follow the jackknife playbook, show knife is sharp, then use scotchbrite to dull the knife, show that it wont slice paper, then sharpen it up
 
You're the MAN, Bucketstove!

Im definitely assimilating some of your ideas into the curriculum!

Wanted to add:
Apologies to everyone for my long wind to low conveyance ratio. It's a handicap and a curse! I just re read everything with a fresh mind and my descriptions are all over the place. I wouldn't even know what I was talking about, even tho it made sense to me at the time . wish I could apply this whole simplicity thing to my typed bleetherings!

I know this about me, but can't seem to help it. So thanks to everyone for your patience and willingness.

This thread is becoming very interesting to me. It is serving as a summary of my 20 year sharpening journey, which is really cool. So it's helping my goal as well as exposing new revelations in my own craft!

I will try to dial back my responses, but will keep reading if anyone feels like adding!

Thanks!
 
For MBC students who are not going to use the knife as utility but only SD, then jack's method is probably more suitable. They won't care if a pre-set bevel is being followed and if the FFG got scratches (because of going too low). (Check Pacific Salt dulled edge slashing meat test by Mathew Culbertson, it's dull, but still cut).

Martin's method is for someone who wants to learn and follow pre-set angles (or one that has been created anew, and stick to it). Check Martin's PDF manual, he has there what it means to listen to the pitch.
Hope this random thoughts are helpful.
 
I appreciated that you explained so much more James. When you explained everything more, I completely understood what you were looking for. So don't feel bad and certainly don't apologize. You did nothing wrong! I've enjoyed the thread as well. A lot of great information given! Bucketstove, Heavyhanded and others.. Great info from guys who know what they are doing. Fun to read, but making me miss being able to continue freehand sharpening. LOL!
 
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