There seems to be some interest in GH marketing a more modern working khukuri. I thought we could toss some ideas out here and see what Craig thinks. So far the consensus seems to be for a micarta grip. I`ll go a little farther and suggest a one piece traditional shape made from a block canvas micarta. I think the WW2 blade would be just the ticket. I`d say beadblast the whole thing and coat the blade with Birdsong black T. Sheath in a kydex multicarry rig and I think it would make a very nicely rounded package. If the kamis aren`t into the idea maybe they could forge the blades and caps like the batch that was sold recently and a resonably priced knife maker stateside could do the rest. Of course it would cost more but I think some would be happy to pay it. Marcus
"Modern Khukuri"(I didn`t say the T word!)
- Thread starter Marcus
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Marcus,
The only change I would make to your "wish list" would be in the handle. The handle, for me, would have to be about the same size as the Panawal model and the butt-cap would have to be rounded as opposed to the rounded-diamond shape that comes as standard issue.
I've rounded out the butt-caps on my Service #1 and Panawal to eliminate the 'hot spot' that eventually forms on the heel of my hand from the pointed sections of the caps.
Otherwise, sounds like a worth while project and certainly has my attention.
Blackdog
------------------
When the world is at peace, a gentleman keeps his sword by his side.......
Sun-Tzu 400 BC
The only change I would make to your "wish list" would be in the handle. The handle, for me, would have to be about the same size as the Panawal model and the butt-cap would have to be rounded as opposed to the rounded-diamond shape that comes as standard issue.
I've rounded out the butt-caps on my Service #1 and Panawal to eliminate the 'hot spot' that eventually forms on the heel of my hand from the pointed sections of the caps.
Otherwise, sounds like a worth while project and certainly has my attention.
Blackdog
------------------
When the world is at peace, a gentleman keeps his sword by his side.......
Sun-Tzu 400 BC
- Joined
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I think I deserve a discount for coming up with this marvelous idea.
I stand by my original suggestion for a full exposed tang type handle. This allows certain advantages.
1. The tang can extend past the grip allowing a hammerable butt, and have room for a lanyard hole. (modern khukuri MUST have a lanyard hole)
2. The handle can be made flatter so the whole knife can fit better on the person.
3. It's easier to make. After the dimensions are worked out for the micarta panels, Craig can just order 50 sets and screw them on himself as soon as the blades arrive from Nepal. (Or even send them to Nepal to be fitted)
4. My feminine side says handles like the Busse Battle Mistress and Livesay RTAK would be a nice match for a modern khukuri.
I'm not sure about the coating though. BT2 would wear terribily for a chopping blade. And I heard titanium nitride is brittle. Maybe a blued blade?
That Jim March rapid deployment kydex sheath is awesome. The blade comes out through the side, how cool is that?
I do hope this becomes a standard line.
[This message has been edited by tallwingedgoat (edited 02 September 1999).]
I stand by my original suggestion for a full exposed tang type handle. This allows certain advantages.
1. The tang can extend past the grip allowing a hammerable butt, and have room for a lanyard hole. (modern khukuri MUST have a lanyard hole)
2. The handle can be made flatter so the whole knife can fit better on the person.
3. It's easier to make. After the dimensions are worked out for the micarta panels, Craig can just order 50 sets and screw them on himself as soon as the blades arrive from Nepal. (Or even send them to Nepal to be fitted)
4. My feminine side says handles like the Busse Battle Mistress and Livesay RTAK would be a nice match for a modern khukuri.
I'm not sure about the coating though. BT2 would wear terribily for a chopping blade. And I heard titanium nitride is brittle. Maybe a blued blade?
That Jim March rapid deployment kydex sheath is awesome. The blade comes out through the side, how cool is that?
I do hope this becomes a standard line.
[This message has been edited by tallwingedgoat (edited 02 September 1999).]
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I was being somewhat facetious when I suggested a black-ti blade in the other thread. However, Parkerizing the blade would probably be a practical alternative. Parkerizing is probably within the reach of Nepali technology, it is not expensive, and it is renewable.
I believe Newt Livesay uses Parkerizing on his blades, which seem to be highly regarded.
I have a 1967 Camillus-manufactured Navy survival knife which I have used "some" over the years, and the Parkerizing is still about 90%.
-Anyway that's my .02
Mike
I believe Newt Livesay uses Parkerizing on his blades, which seem to be highly regarded.
I have a 1967 Camillus-manufactured Navy survival knife which I have used "some" over the years, and the Parkerizing is still about 90%.
-Anyway that's my .02
Mike
- Joined
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- 567
Ill second Goats preference for a full exposed tang with contoured Micarta handle slabs. I hadnt thought about leaving the butt end exposed as a hammering implement, but thats probably a good idea. The other guys are right; the Livesay RTAK is a good example of the type of fittings and finish Id like to see on a modern khukuri. Im kind of intrigued by the idea of bluing the blade (I considered doing this on some of my other khuks), but not sure how durable this finish would be. I dont know if a Black Ti finish is feasible for this type of project
Parkerization may be the way to go (if a protective finish is required). Im also curious as to how any of these finishes would stand up to repeated sheathing in a Kydex scabbard
As far as the blade geometry, I would think that the Bhojpure configuration might be desirable due to its enhanced chopping ability I guess it all depends on the intended use. Almost any khukuri blade will exceed the chopping ability of most other knives in this class.
As far as the blade geometry, I would think that the Bhojpure configuration might be desirable due to its enhanced chopping ability I guess it all depends on the intended use. Almost any khukuri blade will exceed the chopping ability of most other knives in this class.
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- 1,760
Wow! And I thought I was the only one who fantasized about such things. Based upon what I'm hearing from most contributors to this thread, what do you think of this configuration:
1) Blade: A Panawal blade. This will be easy for the Kamis to do - send me Panawals with no scales attached. I'd ask for Panawals with a bit more attention to detail, as the normal Panawals are a bit rough around the edges. The blade would come plain from Nepal, and would be blued/parkerized upon arrival. I think you guys have the right idea that bluing and parkerizing can be re-done (I don't know how to parkerize, but I know bluing is easy). These finishes will help this khukuri be a working knife - you won't be afraid to scratch the finish if you can do quick repair to restore the beauty.
2) Handle: White Micarta scales. I like Tallwingedgoat's vote for a lower-profile handle. I think that will work well. And for those who want a purely tactical model, we could do black micarta too. Hell, why not do a bunch of micarta colors.
3) Buttcap: This is what I'm not exactly clear on. Panawal owners will be familiar with the Panawal buttcap, which I don't think lends itself to heavy pounding. I like the idea for a hole for a laniard, but I'm not sure how that would work. Maybe just a hole right through the base of the handle.
It's actually lucky that this thread was started, as I just sent off a warning order to Lalit for the Christmas order. Anticipating a spike in sales, I want to make sure I have enough khukuris in stock. I could order the handle-less Panawals. I do have a great handle maker here in Virginia who could do the handles for a reasonable price. Bluing would also not be a problem.
Please provide more input, and let's consider this project officially started. I'd like to suggest a name for this khukuri. How bout "The Colt." It reminds me of one of those heavily blued 1911 model .45s with ivory handles. Any other sugggestions?
------------------
Craig Gottlieb
Gurkha House
Blade Forums Sponsor
[This message has been edited by Craig Gottlieb (edited 02 September 1999).]
1) Blade: A Panawal blade. This will be easy for the Kamis to do - send me Panawals with no scales attached. I'd ask for Panawals with a bit more attention to detail, as the normal Panawals are a bit rough around the edges. The blade would come plain from Nepal, and would be blued/parkerized upon arrival. I think you guys have the right idea that bluing and parkerizing can be re-done (I don't know how to parkerize, but I know bluing is easy). These finishes will help this khukuri be a working knife - you won't be afraid to scratch the finish if you can do quick repair to restore the beauty.
2) Handle: White Micarta scales. I like Tallwingedgoat's vote for a lower-profile handle. I think that will work well. And for those who want a purely tactical model, we could do black micarta too. Hell, why not do a bunch of micarta colors.
3) Buttcap: This is what I'm not exactly clear on. Panawal owners will be familiar with the Panawal buttcap, which I don't think lends itself to heavy pounding. I like the idea for a hole for a laniard, but I'm not sure how that would work. Maybe just a hole right through the base of the handle.
It's actually lucky that this thread was started, as I just sent off a warning order to Lalit for the Christmas order. Anticipating a spike in sales, I want to make sure I have enough khukuris in stock. I could order the handle-less Panawals. I do have a great handle maker here in Virginia who could do the handles for a reasonable price. Bluing would also not be a problem.
Please provide more input, and let's consider this project officially started. I'd like to suggest a name for this khukuri. How bout "The Colt." It reminds me of one of those heavily blued 1911 model .45s with ivory handles. Any other sugggestions?
------------------
Craig Gottlieb
Gurkha House
Blade Forums Sponsor
[This message has been edited by Craig Gottlieb (edited 02 September 1999).]
I've been looking for and hinting at full tang blades too, and also think that micarta handles make sense. For carry the Suripati blades seem to make more sense, and even though one may give up a bit on chopping power the durability still seems there for being able to still accomplish the task.
Sounds something like a "tactical" Khukuri to me. Sorry about using that word, but it conveys my thought. This has my interest. Jim March has a design concept going on the HI forum for a piece which grabs my interest also. I like his concept of the false edge near the tip (for back cuts). Is that a doable on this one Craig?
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NOooo, World War blade please. Why not call it WWIII
If there is a WWIII, I get the feeling this would be the standard issue.
What is parkerized?
What is parkerized?
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Per Craig's request, I sent him pictures to illustrate my point. Here's the text of what I said. Anyone care to comment?
____________
Craig,
Here are a three pics (sic -- four pics) with the handles I was refering to. You see the Busse Battle Mistress, the Livesay RTAK, and finally 2 blades of I believe Rob Simonich.
Busse and Livesay both use black canvas micarta. From the reviews so far, the grip is great for wet conditions. As you can see, it's just two slabs of micarta screwed onto the tang. The tang extends past the handle panels and gets wider -- making retention easier and allowing for a hammerable butt. There is a lanyard hole right at the end of the tang. Personally, I like the Busse design the best.
You can see from the photos that the Livesay RTAK has a olive drab kydex sheath -- pretty cool for military types.
I realize the Ang Khola Panawal is the easiest for you to order. But I highly recommend the WW blade instead. It really is the best combination of tool and weapon. The AK, though a great khukuri, is more of the
Nepalese version of the hatchet. Which I think is less "tactical". Plus the WW is lighter as well, easier to lug around. One of the reasons people go for kydex sheaths is the reduction in weight. (Livesay's RTAK
is a machete/knife hybrid) So it makes less sense for me to see the heaviest khukuri with a ultra light sheath.
Because of the considerations above, it may not be possible to order an Panawal blade without some modifications to the tang. I don't know if an off the shelf blade would be best. Also, please note that for a tang
butt to be hammerable, you must have the butt hardened somewhat. Current tangs are left dead soft -- in the low 30 RHC. If I hammer it, it will go flat.
____________
P.S. Another ribbing of the An Khola Panawal idea. The reason why full tang is usually avoided with khukuris is the added shock transmitted to the hand when chopping. Since the AK is almost an ax, I would say the AK is the last khukuri that should have a full tang.
[This message has been edited by tallwingedgoat (edited 03 September 1999).]
____________
Craig,
Here are a three pics (sic -- four pics) with the handles I was refering to. You see the Busse Battle Mistress, the Livesay RTAK, and finally 2 blades of I believe Rob Simonich.
Busse and Livesay both use black canvas micarta. From the reviews so far, the grip is great for wet conditions. As you can see, it's just two slabs of micarta screwed onto the tang. The tang extends past the handle panels and gets wider -- making retention easier and allowing for a hammerable butt. There is a lanyard hole right at the end of the tang. Personally, I like the Busse design the best.
You can see from the photos that the Livesay RTAK has a olive drab kydex sheath -- pretty cool for military types.
I realize the Ang Khola Panawal is the easiest for you to order. But I highly recommend the WW blade instead. It really is the best combination of tool and weapon. The AK, though a great khukuri, is more of the
Nepalese version of the hatchet. Which I think is less "tactical". Plus the WW is lighter as well, easier to lug around. One of the reasons people go for kydex sheaths is the reduction in weight. (Livesay's RTAK
is a machete/knife hybrid) So it makes less sense for me to see the heaviest khukuri with a ultra light sheath.
Because of the considerations above, it may not be possible to order an Panawal blade without some modifications to the tang. I don't know if an off the shelf blade would be best. Also, please note that for a tang
butt to be hammerable, you must have the butt hardened somewhat. Current tangs are left dead soft -- in the low 30 RHC. If I hammer it, it will go flat.
____________
P.S. Another ribbing of the An Khola Panawal idea. The reason why full tang is usually avoided with khukuris is the added shock transmitted to the hand when chopping. Since the AK is almost an ax, I would say the AK is the last khukuri that should have a full tang.
[This message has been edited by tallwingedgoat (edited 03 September 1999).]
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Craig,
If you can come up with the "WW3" described by 'goat I'll buy one! The 20" sirupati would also make a good basis. I think the WW2 styled blade (18"?) with a parkerized finish or a bead blasted blue finish would be awesome! Black canvas or linen micarta handle and a rounded steel or aluminum buttcap with enough mass to it to withstand heavy pounding is a must.I' stay with the stick tang and just drill the laynard hole into the micarta and reinforce it with a brass liner.
An O.D. kydex sheith would be like icing on the cake. Just make sure that the blades are properly tempered!!! The "ideal hardness" is talked about in reference to HI shop 2 blades.
I love the WW3 name!
I want one. I think that if you make this setup you won't be able to make them fast enough! I want my name on the initial order list!
Mike
[This message has been edited by Jaeger (edited 02 September 1999).]
If you can come up with the "WW3" described by 'goat I'll buy one! The 20" sirupati would also make a good basis. I think the WW2 styled blade (18"?) with a parkerized finish or a bead blasted blue finish would be awesome! Black canvas or linen micarta handle and a rounded steel or aluminum buttcap with enough mass to it to withstand heavy pounding is a must.I' stay with the stick tang and just drill the laynard hole into the micarta and reinforce it with a brass liner.
An O.D. kydex sheith would be like icing on the cake. Just make sure that the blades are properly tempered!!! The "ideal hardness" is talked about in reference to HI shop 2 blades.
I love the WW3 name!
I want one. I think that if you make this setup you won't be able to make them fast enough! I want my name on the initial order list!
Mike
[This message has been edited by Jaeger (edited 02 September 1999).]
Wow this one`s really taking off! Great idea TWG,I love the WW3 name too! I was thinking about the stick tang for vibration resistance but the full tang is okay with me too especially since it`s been pointed out that it could be fitted with a butt cap suitable for hammering. Also good points about parkerizing being easier,cheaper than BT as well as being able to touch it up. Here`s my revised imaginary WW3:WW2 blade with full Panawal style tang, black canvas micarta grip scales,lanyard hole,parkerized blade,black or green kydex multi carry sheath. Marcus
- Joined
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- Messages
- 567
Sounds like we're just about there! (of course, that's easy for me to say
) The proposed configuration for the "WW3" would satisfy my wish list quite well, and the name is pretty cool. I'd prefer a blued blade over a parkerized one, but I will gladly defer to the judgment of the more experienced "khukurimaniacs". The point about using one of the less massive blade forms for a lightweight rig is well taken; I just need to rein in my instinctive "bigger is better" reaction. You can definitely put me down for one if this project comes together!
Jim
[This message has been edited by UglyJim (edited 02 September 1999).]
Jim
[This message has been edited by UglyJim (edited 02 September 1999).]
FYI, if you browse some of the older HI forum threads you'll find mention of a "Cobalt Special" (earlier name) and an "Ang Khola Bowie" project. It is a purpose built heavy blade, similar to an AK, without the characteristic khukuri angled spine -- pana butta handle, replacable scales, exposed & hardened butt, etc. That project is already in the works and, since is sounds somewhat like what folks are discussing here, may be the source of some other design ideas.
Maybe a Sirupati style blade, sharpened swedge...
------------------
Cheers,
--+Brian+--
Maybe a Sirupati style blade, sharpened swedge...
------------------
Cheers,
--+Brian+--
- Joined
- Apr 27, 1999
- Messages
- 620
Every weapon these days that is, tries to be, or pretends to be battle worthy has either Tactical, SWAT, SEAL or Special Forces tacked to the front of the name. WW3 is short, to the point, and allows the imagination to run wild. You got my vote TWG!!
I like the WW size and weight. A full tang with a lanyard hole would be good if possible. A blued blade would appeal to me, but I'll go with the majority.
Sign me up for one Craig. BTW, any chance of getting them serialized?
Blackdog
------------------
When the world is at peace, a gentleman keeps his sword by his side.......
Sun-Tzu 400 BC
I like the WW size and weight. A full tang with a lanyard hole would be good if possible. A blued blade would appeal to me, but I'll go with the majority.
Sign me up for one Craig. BTW, any chance of getting them serialized?
Blackdog
------------------
When the world is at peace, a gentleman keeps his sword by his side.......
Sun-Tzu 400 BC
You're right about the Cobalt Special being a chopper, Marcus. That 1/2" thick spine is a bit of overkill. However, I still can't wait for them to come in.
As to the project at hand, I'll cast my vote for bluing. Forget about the damage that chopping will do to a coating. Kydex itself can do quite a number. The Kal-Gard on one of my blades is rubbing off just from contact with the sheath. IMO, bluing looks good, provides some protection for the steel & is user renewable.
------------------
Cheers,
--+Brian+--
As to the project at hand, I'll cast my vote for bluing. Forget about the damage that chopping will do to a coating. Kydex itself can do quite a number. The Kal-Gard on one of my blades is rubbing off just from contact with the sheath. IMO, bluing looks good, provides some protection for the steel & is user renewable.
------------------
Cheers,
--+Brian+--
- Joined
- Jan 13, 1999
- Messages
- 1,422
Gosh I didn't realize how cool the name WW3 was until after I wrote it. It seemed natural since it's basically a modernized WW2 khukuri. But if war breaks out, I know what knife I want handy
I'm not so much worried about rust for the blade as for the handle. If water gets in between the handle plates, there'll be a problem. There remains much to be worked out. Like how are you going to get one-size-fits-all handles and kydex sheaths to fit handmade knives. We're going to have to be patient.
I agree with whoever said it, that this is going to be a hot saler. Craig should have fun coming up with advertisement slogans with a name like that.
I'm not so much worried about rust for the blade as for the handle. If water gets in between the handle plates, there'll be a problem. There remains much to be worked out. Like how are you going to get one-size-fits-all handles and kydex sheaths to fit handmade knives. We're going to have to be patient.
I agree with whoever said it, that this is going to be a hot saler. Craig should have fun coming up with advertisement slogans with a name like that.
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- Messages
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The Cobalt Special should be a very interesting bowie. If they planed for a longer and thinner blade I would have ordered it. I don't think it will cut well with a 1/2" thick blade. But it should be the strongest knife on the planet.
[This message has been edited by tallwingedgoat (edited 03 September 1999).]
[This message has been edited by tallwingedgoat (edited 03 September 1999).]
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My vote is still for parkerizing. Much more "military" appearence and tuff as nails! It also has much better oil retention properties than does blueing. Just my .02. I like the stick tang because of the superior shock absorption that it provides over the full tang. If you are concerned about strength beef the tang up. Remember, this is a using knife. If it becomes uncomfortable to use you will not use it. A buttcap fabricated of of the proper dimentions and materials will hold up to any pounding that you might wish to inflict. Will you be using this more as a blade or as a hammer? Prioritize your design parameters according to your mission.
Mike
Mike