Need forumite's opinions - Police Model

Sal Glesser

Sal Glesser

Moderator
Joined
Dec 27, 1998
Messages
11,619
We have had a question bouncing around the Sales dept for a few years now.

Should we make a Liteweight Police model?

If so, should it be tip up or tip down?

If so, what lock do you think would be the best for the model?

If not, why not?

Would you add anything special or change anything (that would asist LEOs)?

Your opinions, arguments and thoughts are requested and appreciated.
sal
 
Even though I know it has been superceded by the Military, I still look on the Police Model as a Spyderco "flagship." It's your own design, after all, Mr. Glesser! In this view, a lightweight Zytel version seems inappropriate.

How would you feel if I suggested a Military lightweight? "No way!" right? Because it's a high-end piece built for the toughest of using conditions...and it also has a degree of "knife guy" status attached to owning it. A lightweight Police Model would be like having a Corvette built by the Geo division of Chevy.

If a user wants a lighter, grippier Police Model, there is the G-10 variant. That way, he or she is getting a knife at least as tough and as classy as the original steel model. If a user really wants low price and light weight, a Zytel Endure will serve nearly as well (better than a Police for utility).

I've never fully understood what a Police was made for. It has no real belly and a very shallow grind, so its utility role could be done better by other Spydercos. It has a good thrusting point, but you never call it a weapon and have the Civilian specifically because (you have said) you feel that its slashing potential is far better than stabbing for defense. Furthermore, I would be afraid to deliver a really hard stab with a metal-handled Police because it's slippery as heck and has no guard to speak of.

So what, then, is the Police? It's an institution, a "tried-and-true" example of Spyderco's work. It's one of the oldest models still available, and still one of the only "full size" Spydercos that isn't a custom design. It's a big Spyderco done right, and I'd be careful before I messed with the formula too much. If you want something that does what a Police does but is inexpensive and lightweight, I'd suggest making a new design before "cheapening" (sorry) this one.

There will be a lightweight Calypso Jr. - how about a lightweight Calypso instead of the lightweight Police?

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-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
 
Personally, I would welcome more choices in you lite clip-it line. I prefer them for daily carry. My suggestion to you is to consider making large and small versions of most folders, whenever you introduce something new. I (like a lot of people) like to have the choice of choosing between a larger or smaller blade, depending on circumstances. But I don't want to be fumbling with knives of different ergonomics when I pull out whichever knife I happen to be carrying on a particular day.

My daily carry knives are currently an original Delica and original Endura. I am tempted by the Native, as a replacement to the Delica, but until you have a 3.5-4" Native to compliment it, I will have to wait.

I believe you could narrow the models that should have a large/small combination to those that seem the most appropriate to daily, utilitarian use. These would probably include the Native, Military (I would love a large/small combo Military!).... generally your best selling knives are probably in this category.

As an aside, I have been in love with Spydercos since I first ran into them a few years ago.
 
Police Model:

• Tip down
• Ti handles, maybe with grooves, crazy anodization colors
• Liner lock
• Flat grind
• Military style clip
• Keep it xtra slim
• Under $120
• Partially serrated

I want one!

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Joel Pirela
Graphic & Knife Designer


 
I think the steel and G-10 models of the Police are good enough,but if you do make one it should definately be TIP-DOWN!!!
I personally wont carry anything but tip-down because I am so used to it.
I am sure they're others who feel just the opposite.I like the idea of
of a knife with the option to be carried either way,everyone is happy then!

See Ya,

RJT
 
Corduroy - The original Rescue/Mariner model was designed with a straight (shape) serrated blade because it seems to work the best on seat bels, clothing, rope, etc. We were getting many requests from LEOs to give them a Rescue model with a point. Essentially, that is what the Police Model was based on.

In contrast, the Endura and Delica were given suficient belly to start a cut on the side of a carboard box with the belly (especially serrated).

Thanx for the support and input.
sal
 
Sal,

As a fan of Spyderco knives, I would like to see this variation; but reason tells me otherwise. My answer is "No," and the follwoing is my explanation:

I don't believe that the light weight Police will appeal to ELUs due to its slim profile. The Police is a skinny, long knife: it is especially narrow around its pivot pin. Although the SS and the G10 model look very solid (because of their handle materials), it is inevitable that the light weight model give an APPEARANCE of fragility. (Your other larger light weight models, i.e., Endura and Goddard, both have a wide and solid-LOOKING blade that inspires confidence, but not the Police.) Note that I am only arguing from the viewpoint of appearance, not of function(ality).

slowjocrow
 
Sal,
My department teaches knife skills really likes the police model, BUT...

finds it too slick, (G-10 fixes that) and

It is tip down. The program really emphasizes tip up carry knives due to the simpler goss motor skills required to deploy the blade. When you have a bunch of "non-knife, non-gun people" (sad, but true) simple motor skills win out under stress. Knife and gun people tend to want to put more time in practice.

of course, this is from a dept that still teaches the weaver stance to the basic trainees, (not better, not worse, just more complex)

pat
 
Hi Sal - I think you should leave the Police model as is. It was designed as a heavy to extreme duty knife for LE applications and those of us who benefit from a long slender blade like that. Regardless of whether we are talking about the SS handle version or the G-10 version, the Police model has a bit of heft and good balance, something that Zytel cannot accomplish at all. Basically, throughout the years that the Police has been on the market, it has gained a reputation (and quite a following too) with being a heavy duty knife. For bigger models, please stick to other handle materials like G-10, SS, micarta, carbon fiber, et. al. Hope this helps you guys out.



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Dexter Ewing
Knife Reviews Moderator

"The keystroke is mightier than the sword"

 
Sal,

First I want to thank you for being interested in our opinion.

I would like to see some other Police variations before you go lightweight. I think the Lightweight end is covered pretty well. Goddard, Delica, Endura, Horn, Walker,

Like Pirela mentioned, Titanium, that would be so cool. Maybe with anodizing and colors, how about a Spyder in the side? Very easy to do with CNC, and very cool, very very very very very very cool.

Or make available the carbon fiber Police model I have heard about, I would love to have one of those. And different colors of carbon fiber?

How about a Micarta Police?

What about a bolstered Police with different scales? Give the Police a make-over, kind of a old-fashioned look.

Military style clip would be OK. But I wouldn't think you would need it, the three screw does well.

Please keep it a Lockback though, or if you want to play with the Rolling Lock, cool.

Flat grind is very excellent.

Tip up or down is fine, but I think that pivot down is the best, easier, despite convention, fear and practice/habit.

Once again though, you folks do a great job,

Thank You.

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"A journey of a thousand miles begins but with a single step" Lao-Tzu
 
Checker the steel, for grip. If it needs to be lighter (it will pull the pocket out adn down on BDU's) use titanium or micarta and checker that. I am sure there is a reason (price?)nobody checkers steel or micarta much, but it would help the grip.

Great knife, but a zytel police would just look like an Endura.

My $.02

Rude Water Herring

 
As a LEO I appreciate the offer to make a lightweight police. However, I believe the lightweight clipit line could do without it. If people want a lightweight police they will get the g-10 version. The people that know enough about knives to like the design would undoubtedly go with the versions offered now. However, I'm sure some people would buy one because it says "police" and would be economical. If you decide to do one, I would probably buy one, but I think the design is much better in g-10 or steel. If done it should be flat grind, tip up, and a lock back.
 
Sal,

Navy blue G10 handle, lockback rated same as G10 Civilian with enough rearward strength to act as a good skull crusher (I know, not politically correct).

Flat ground CPM-440V blade w/serrations, with a little more belly.

Redesigned choil similar to the Military's.

Grooves behind "hump" of blade a la Military.

Navy blue clip similar to Military.

Option of having dept. seal, etc. laser engraved on blade.

I'm not a cop, but I'd definitely buy two of these!

Thanks,
Chris
 
Thank you for the explanation, Mr. Glesser. I'd heard it called a "Mariner with a tip" but thought this was a description applied after the fact; cool to think that the Police actually began as a modification of the mariner concept. Good to understand the totally straight edge now, too.

I thought this thread was about making the Police as a Zytel Liteweight, like the Endura and Delica etc. If we're all just throwing in requests (;-)), please remake the TufRam Police models but add a rubbery patch like that on the aluminum Civilian; I've been dreaming about this knife for years!

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-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
 
I'm going to side with Dexter here and suggest this model be left alone, except for adding a slight choil, like the Calypso. The G-10 version is nice, and when you place either the SS or G-10 versions in your hand, this knife makes an immediate positive impression on you.
 
I've gotta come down on the side of no. The G-10 already creates a lightweight version. All zytel would do is make it weaker and cheaper. Just an opinion, If you do make it I'll probably buy one anyhow.
smile.gif


[This message has been edited by tschlosser (edited 08 May 1999).]
 
I'm in agreement with the majority here. G10 cures the one potential problem of the SS, slipperiness. I like Corduroy's idea of the kraton insert for the stainless version. I love how that looks on the Civilian and it would improve the grip.

The other really nice thing about the SS Police is that it is heavy enough to open by holding the hole and allowing the handle to basically drop away. Zytels not going to allow that.

Jack
 
Sal, I don't really see a need to change it, since you already have the G-10 version. About the only change I might make to that one would be to enlarge the hole a little, for easier opening. The lockback is reliable and I'd leave it at that.
 
I would like the traditional look on the police. Milled liners, red jigged bone scales, Tip up carry and flat ground. I know this is not what you have in mind, but I am dreaming again. Your fat little buddy in the Texas Panhandle.
Chris, Top of Texas Knives
www.toptexknives.com

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