Need help sharpening, i'm USELESS.

230grains

230grains

Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
3,094
I admit it, I can't sharpen a knife to save my life, honestly. Everything I "sharpen" ends up duller then when I started. I don't own any "great" knives right now, but i'm about to drop about 500 dollars on a Busse, so i'd really like to get the act down before I dull the hell out of that too.

I tried the mousepad/sandpaper technique, I ended up dulling my CRKT m16 on it. I started with 200 grit, and worked my way all the way to 2000 grit. The edge is HORRIBLE on it now. HELP. I even managed to dull my Benchmade LFK trying to sharpen it. Am I forever hopeless? I don't know what im doing wrong.

Should I just bite the bullet and buy a spyderco sharpmaker? Will this work with a convex edge like a Busse? Someone help, i'm seriously going nuts.
 
You might not have got good results because you were trying to convex a stright bevel. Another mistake is to use too much pressure causing the edge to be overly rounded and blunt. It will take some time but you will get it.

The sharpmaker is good but will not fix the inability to sharpen and is not the proper tool for convex edges. For all your stright bevel knives a sharpmaker or DMT aligner would be a good choice but for convex edges it's sandpaper and mousepad. I personally like the EMS sharpening block for convex edges, it works very well. http://www.jreindustries.com/EMS.htm

These vid's will help with your convex edges.
http://www.knivesshipfree.com/pages/Sharpening-Videos
 
knifenut1013 said:
You might not have got good results because you were trying to convex a stright bevel. Another mistake is to use too much pressure causing the edge to be overly rounded and blunt. It will take some time but you will get it.

The sharpmaker is good but will not fix the inability to sharpen and is not the proper tool for convex edges. For all your stright bevel knives a sharpmaker or DMT aligner would be a good choice but for convex edges it's sandpaper and mousepad. I personally like the EMS sharpening block for convex edges, it works very well. http://www.jreindustries.com/EMS.htm

These vid's will help with your convex edges.
http://www.knivesshipfree.com/pages/Sharpening-Videos
Click to expand...

Yes, the knife I was trying on the mousepad was not a convex blade. If I keep at it with say, the 200 grit paper, will this be able to convex the blade?
 
Yes it will, but as he said, don't push too hard. Repetitions work better than pressure. Pressure will push the blade too deep against the sandpaper and that will roll the convexing into a dull edge.

The Sharpmaker is a good idea anyway. But since you're having a problem "getting it" I think the best tool for you is ... a carbon steel Mora. Practice sharpening that cheap knife, easy to convex, easy to get a secondary bevel, easy to laugh and throw away if you really mess it up. And when you do get it, you'll have a great little utility knife with an edge like a scalpel.
 
230grains said:
If I keep at it with say, the 200 grit paper, will this be able to convex the blade?
Click to expand...

You could convex a brick if you kept at it long enough. ;)

Do try a Sharpmaker. It's almost braindead monkey easy at first, but as you get the hang of it you discover that it is not at all a braindead monkey machine, but rather a very good sharpener that can do a lot of interesting things.

I had a lot of problems at first with stones, then I got a Sharpmaker and the stars aligned, my dog learned to talk, and I now make a monthly profit of 10 million dollars. Ok, not really, but I figured out the basics of sharpening and was able to translate them to other sharpening tools.

But what little I know of Busse grinds tells me to keep them and Sharpmakers away from each other like oil and water.
 
Also, since you have started to convex it, the Sharpmaker will take forever to reestablish flat bevels, eventually get to the edge, and form a burr. You won't be getting to the edge for a long time. I would stick with one or the other, flat bevels or convex, and not go back and forth. I don't know how far you got with convexing but I would probably stay with that at this point.

The Sharpmaker with it's two grits (three if you get the diamond sticks) are all quite fine grit. Good for touch ups, maintaining an edge, and that is about it IMO. Of course it can do more, but it is very slow. What you are talking about is major reprofiling.

I also suggest reading this to help understand what you are trying to accomplish while working on the a practice knife like Esav Benyamin suggested.

Gary
 
I own and use an Edge pro sharpening system with great results. I believe this is the "best" jig type of sharpening system that most anyone could get SAT results with. Of course, reading and understanding the instructions, along with a little practice, goes a long way.
On a different note, I have been studying the art of hand sharpening on Japanese water stones using Murray Carter's methods.
His system teaches the basic skills and steps required for hand sharpened edges you can shave with.
The advantage to this method puts the knife in yor hands often, so you get very comfortable handling the knife and there are no jigs, gadgets or anything special required.
Of course his method requires practice.
You can find more information on Murray Carter at is website.

Either way, learnig how to properly sharpen a knife can be a fun and never ending hobby.
 
I say start with your kitchen knifes (at least your better one's) or buy some old hickery kitchen knifes they have great fairly inexpensive knifes to practice on.I find a wide thinner knife easier to sharpen Once you get your technique down go with your pocket knifes.
It is hard for me to tell people how to sharpen a knife because I have been sharpening knife almost since I started carrying them at about age 8.My techniques and equipment has changed and evolved over the years but I always come back to freehand.Right now I am using sandpaper over a piece of leather but I still use diamond bench stones to rebevel or if the knife is extremely dull to put the primary edge on then go with the sandpaper.I have also started to experiment with paper wheel but have not got the technique down yet.
 
i sharpen quite a few busse knives and i use a belt sander to work up a burr and remove the burr on a paper buffing wheel. i also sharpen v edge knives with the paper wheels. here is a thread i started on the wheels. if your busse comes with a v edge you can sharpen it in a few minutes compared to longer by hand. check out my vids of how sharp i can get a knife with the wheels. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=578787
 
Sounds like you're not sharpening at the correct angle...or you angles aren't consistent.

Try the Magic Marker trick:
1. Coat the blade edges (final bevel) with a blue or black Magic Marker, then take a swipe against your stone, sandpaper, etc.

2.Then LOOK at the blade to see where the marker's GONE. That's the area you're grinding.

3.You want to grind the the final bevel evenly. Re-apply the marker and take a few swipes, then check again.

4. Repeat 1-4 until you can consistently hold the proper angle when sharpening.

It takes practice...and lots of it.
 
Lots of good info here already... I also suspected angle and pressure as possible issues. One needs to pay a lot of attention the angles, especially with methods like sandpaper and mousepad or Japanese water stones. For both, the angle typically needs to be a little steeper than with harder sharpening mediums, because they will concave a bit and curl over the edge... too steep and angle, and they'll just round it over. I learned that the hard way with waterstones (not so much that the really concave all at once as much as a slurry buildup on the stone simulates the effect).

I'd definitely suggest spending some money on good, versatile sharpening equipment before spending $500 on a knife. Hell, it can even be cheap, versatile equipment. And you needn't limit yourself to one sharpening device... a variety can be helpful depending on the task at hand.
 
Thanks

I have sharpened all my life with oil stones, other single grit systems, or whatever was available. When I decided to plunge deaper into sharpening, I already understood polishing in general and had a lot of metal working experience and tools, but hadn't applied it to sharpening. When I was looking for guidance to move on to the next step, buy some gear, get more respectable results, and sharpen more complex edges, Chad's tutorial was the most useful thing I found. Part of what it did was reinforce what I already thought I knew, and was doing, and gave me the confidence to continue on to more refined edges knowing that my efforts were focused on a proper outcome. As a basic all around primer I haven't found anything better yet.

Since reading it I tried a Sharpmaker but gave it away for Christmas, bought Norton water stones, an EP, Belt Grinder with coarse through micron grit and stropping belts, a couple of DMT plates, a set of Shapton Glass stones, and a Hand American bench strop with magnetic based leathers and felt. So, I guess it and the forums had quite an effect and now I am fully addicted.

I always recommend it to anyone interested in learning to sharpen. I am sure his book would be good too.

He has also influenced my purchase of some respectable kitchen knives. I am very happy with some MAC knifes I have ( The three basics, a paring, Chef's, and bread knives).

Gary
 
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gary jp4 said:
Thanks

I always recommend it to anyone interested in learning to sharpen. I am sure his book would be good too.

He has also influenced my purchase of some respectable kitchen knives. I am very happy with some MAC knifes I have ( The three basics, a paring, Chef's, and bread knives).

Gary
Click to expand...

Gary,

Thank you for the excellent link.
 
Ben Dover said:
Just get an Edge-Pro, and be done with it! :thumbup:
Click to expand...
The EdgePro is nice, but still requires some skill and practice to use.
You have to make sure you use the right amount of pressure, too much and you'll scuff the backbevel or flat angle of the blade, too little and you'll be spending the next hour getting there. You also have to make sure the sharpening on each "section" of the blade is nice and even, or you'll have one dull area, and another that looks like an elephant wearing high heels stepped on your edge and crushed it flat.

While I haven't used it myself, the sharpmaker seems to be the simplest one to use.
 
Gary, By a careful reading of Chad Ward's article one realizes that the debate is still raging concerning which edge is best.Mr.Juranitch's polished edge or a more coarse edge of what some very experienced,knowledgeable knife makers recommend.The doctor's still out on this one and from the looking glass this may rage on for sometime.
In the mean time,I think its best for individuals to conduct sound independent testing on this. Arriving at their founded conclusions and in the end able to purport concrete data.DM
 
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