Need some help if possible.

recondoc1

recondoc1

Joined
Apr 27, 2001
Messages
595
Hey all,
Just picked up a Buck Strider 888 Solution which I'm thinking I'll carry when they pack my keester off to Iraq or points unknown.
As for the one I have, there are a couple of things I'd like to know.
Doing a Coating Job-
1: Can you remove the scales on this thing? I unscrewed the two tourqe screws, but that's as far as I was able to go until I know whether or not I'm going to have to bust them off. I want to shoot GunKote on it and don't want to be baking my G-10.
On Quality-
2: Can anybody tell me why they don't grind this thing all the way down the edge. She's a shorty to start with and losing another 1/2-3/4" isn't my idea of a good manufacturing call. Also, after all of the good things that I've heard about them, I was rather surprised to find it with a rather lacking, and uneven grind.
3: The Sheath. The sheath that came with this one is a combination of Green with Black edging. I thought that the original SOE Sheaths were solid green. This one is not marked SOE, only Made in America. For non-Mil applications, I'd like to get a nice OWB/IWB combo made for it in Kydex or Concealex. Who's the go to company for it.

My initial overall impression is about 50/50. I am impressed with the design and feel that it will do the job I'm facing. However, I am by far unimpressed with the Quality Control from Buck. Paul Bos may be doing the heat treat, but the grinding looks lobsided, short of full blade length and dull again toward the tip with a really steep angle. The bead blast job on this one is just plain second rate, uneven and looks like they used 5 month old abrassive compound.
For a knife with a $220 retail point. I expect nothing but the best. Buck is known for outstanding quality that lasts and lasts. Hell, I've got a 110 from my Grandfather's estate back in 72 and it is still going strong. What happened here with the 888s? I'm for all intents and purpouses planning to stake my life on this knife and this is it? For the kind of money I just put down?
Just to let you know the kind of trust I've always put in the Buck name, you should know that I gave up one of Ed Kalfayans handmade, full custom Chute knives and a brand new Chris Reeve Yarburough to position myself to pick up a Solution. Did I pick up some pocket change along the way? Yep. But it's the Solution that I want strapped to my ass when it heads for the sand. I had handled a friends earlier production knife and was entirely impressed with it. The design just feels right in my hand.
I figured something was wrong when I caught myself out in the shop thinking of what I would need to do to get this knife up to standards. Then it dawned on me that I shouldn't be having to do anything to a $200+ knife to bring it up to standards. It should already excede them.
Thanks for all the information you can give. :End Rant: (Also posted to Buck Forum)
Doc
HM3 Reagan "Doc" Bretz FMF 8404
4th MarDiv 4th Recon Bat.
 
For what it's worth, the first production run knives of 500 were made of BG42. The quality control may have been higher on them, too, since they had to pay more attention on their release as a limited edition. I don't know for sure since I am waiting to handle one myself. If you have the ATS-34 blade, you may want to ask others on the forums their opinions from a Buck or Strider point of view and see what they think. Or, you can do a search on the forums for "Strider Solution" and see previous threads on it. From what I read, most of them have been positive. You can find a ATS-34 Strider Solution for as low as $125 on EBay now. For $220, a Strider MFS may have been more to your liking. Again, I don't know because you may have needed a specific knife profile for your deployment. Regardless, I wish you luck.
 
For what it's worth, the first production run knives of 500 were made of BG42. The quality control may have been higher on them, too, since they had to pay more attention on their release as a limited edition. I don't know for sure since I am waiting to handle one myself. If you have the ATS-34 blade, you may want to ask others on the forums their opinions from a Buck or Strider point of view and see what they think. Or, you can do a search on the forums for "Strider Solution" and see previous threads on it. From what I read, most of them have been positive. You can find a ATS-34 Strider Solution for as low as $125 on EBay now. For $220, a Strider MFS may have been more to your liking. Again, I don't know because you may have needed a specific knife profile for your deployment. Regardless, I wish you luck.
 
Thanks for the input.
The choice for the Solution is pretty much a personal preference. My unit has no formal reg or restriction on knife choice. It's up to the individual to choose what they want. We all get a K-bar anyhow but it's a matter of comfort. For me, I really liked the feel of the handle and the control over the 4.75" blade length. Most military knife applications have very little to do with "knife fighting". Utility work is the standard. I was really eyeing a MT-10 but it's just too far out for me financially.
With the Solution, I got the Strider thought process that went into the knife and was expecting the, normally flawless, buck quality. That's why I was rather surprised with the QC on this knife.
I also posted this on the Buck Knife Forum and Reviews and Testing and am waiting to hear from folks there as well.
I'd love to get an opinion from Dwayne or Mick since their company name also appears on the knife. I know that the Striders I've had a chance to check out don't show any signs of poor QC. Unfortunately, it may reflect that way for folks who are new to the knife world and make their initial impression from Buck's QC standards.
If anybody wants pics of what I'm talking about, email me at rbretz@satx.rr.com and I'll shoot and send them.
BTW, I figured out the handle removal. I had heard folk mention oiling under the handle but couldn't figure out that they were just really fit tight. My bad there.
Doc
 
Price of the knife could depend on many things. Materials, design, quality of workmanship, and the willingness of the manufacturer to back up the performance of the product are some factors. Sometimes it could be based purely on hype. Sometimes on what is trendy.

For me, I would go on the reputation of the knife and what others are giving feedback on it. New design knives are nice and all although they are risky purchases if they haven't been field tested. If they have been and the feedback is solid on the knife, then I would go for it. Mind you, it is possible to get a really flawed one out of the batch. Most makers usually stand behind their knives and will back them up. If they don't, then it is time to move on. It, also, depends on what the knife is used for.

I have been going to Cliff Stamp's web site lately to get an idea of some of the knives out there and what kind of performance or durability they have. So far, I have been able to narrow down my choices of what to buy based on performance, design, and price. Check it out...

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/reviews.html

Other than that, I have been much more conservative and realistic of what I am expecting from my knives. I am not expecting to use a set of Trident kitched knives in a tactical field scenario nor use a Strider in the kitchen. I am sure for most menial of chores they will do in a pinch. Although, I am sure they will not do as well taken out of the scope of their appropriate specialty. One should pick the right tool for the job.

For your interest, I thought I would post some links here if in future you want some alternative for usage of edged tools for the field. In these cases, it might be tools that can do almost ANY job. For the price, I don't think they can be beat. :D

http://www.survival.com/atax.htm

http://www.trackerschool.com/trackerknife/TrackerKnifeManual.pdf

http://secure.sovietski.com/cgi-bin/Sovietski.storefront/EN/Product/200610?AID=5521697&PID=923830

Good luck with your knife.
 
I'm rather surprised to not see any kind of commentary on this one from the guys at Strider. Their name is stamped right there on the tang of every Solution. For some folks, it's their first impression as to what Strider is all about. Maybe not the best possible way to find out about a brand but it happens often enough.
Doc
 
Regardless of Strider, think of what kind of impression it will do to somebody who buys a Buck. :(
 
I know the impression it has made on me. It's a very lasting impression and it will take a hell of a lot to convince me otherwise.
The offending knife has now been delivered to their Joe Houser of Buck via USPS Express mail out of my pocket. He explained to me over the phone yesterday that he would have a tech right on it and turn it around within a day. According to USPS tracking, it was delivered at 11:17PAC time today. I haven't heard anything from them. I know that Joe was out of work today because of some bad storms that had. (That came from CJ Buck but no word about my knife.)
I still reserve judgement of Buck until this particular knife is settled and I go out and look at a few more in knifeshops around town.
Doc
 
I read the other thread on pricing and noticed forum members mentioning that you may have quite possibly gotten a lemon. Looks like C.J. Buck and company is going out of their way to make it right, especially for one of our nation's defenders. I would defer to wisdom of forum members and wait it out. Buck and Strider have an excellent reputation backing up their products. The fact that C.J. Buck is willing to post to the forums and publicly announce he will set things right demonstrates the integrity of his company.

You may want consider some other options in the meantime while you are shopping. I have been scanning the forums and looking at reviews of the various knives out there. Some of them are very economical and have proven themselves to be quite tough. Some companies you might want to consider are Becker, Cold Steel, Ontario, and Swamp Rat Knives.

Continued luck on your search. :)
 
Schmoop,
I think you are right on the money. I just got off of the phone with Joe Houser at Buck and he is absolutely on the ball with this. I gleaned some information about the line in general that should be shared with folks.
He explained to me that most of the add knives were in fact protos. It seems that dealer want photos or a knife to photograph as quickly as possible when a line is announced. Therefore the proto gets sent for the adds while final production is still being worked out. I can understand this. Business is business. I would have liked to know it before making my purchase choice however.
The flat section toward the back of the edge is a planned element. Joe informed me that that is the number one complaint from buyers and it is being addressed as to how to correct it. They originally figured it would offer a margin of safety for using the choil to choke up. Evidently the customer public doesn't agree from what he was explaining.
The sheath is still a mystery to him. I can understand that. He told me that he had not heard anything about SOE not doing the sheaths any more. He noted that there is a defined difference in the quality of the two side by side and that he would be making inquiries as to where they came from.
Overall, the customer service experience has been 110% from Buck. I've been contacted by Joe Houser, CJ. Buck, and Jeff Hubbard their QC Chief. All of them have demonstrated a very evident concern over not only my particular knife but the quality of the entire Solution line. I am glad that these guys understand their business so well.
I figure that a company that's been around for over 100 years has pretty much figured it out. They have demonstrated this at every turn. I'm still happy to call myself a Buck customer now that I understant how things happen with them and that they aren't the types to let a problem lie.
Doc
 
Just remember that the initial prototype to the final product can sometimes be a huge disparity. From conception to production, many factors can affect small changes to what was intended versus the delivery. The fact that the Buck Strider Solution is a collaboration may have made the logistics a little more complicated.

As I indicated before, the first production run of the knives in BG42 may have been a lot different than the ones deployed in ATS-34. I do not know if re-tooling or the process changes in production, transitioning from one steel to another, may have made a difference in the final product. It may or may not have been a factor.

Maybe the folks at Buck will make further revelation of this when they follow up on your particular issue with your knife.

It will be interesting to see the results of your inquiries. Good luck. :)
 
Hey guys...
I don't have near enough time to read all of this....
I did notice as I speed through…

Glad to hear your getting love from the BUCK customer service dept.

No, the thick part of the cutting edge was NOT part of the design. It was a compromise we made when Buck was unable to grind the knife without them, for a reasonable dollar amount.

I was completely un aware that they no longer came with an SOE sheath. I go to BUCK tomorrow and I will boot my way through however many heads I need to until I get a satisfactory answer.

Anything else in all that discussion that I can help with?

m
 
Glad to hear from you Mick,
I cant' be 100% that those aren't SOE sheaths as I don't know if SOE may have dropped in there quality or, perhaps, outscourced those sheaths for the production knife area. Have you received any sheaths from SOE that just had a "Made in the USA" tag vs. the "Special Operations Equipment" tag. Maybe SOE has just changed their MO. The overall quality of the new sheaths is not up to what they were in the earlier production work.
It's a drag about the grind. Buck is having mine done by hand but I'm just one of quite a few that have complained about this. It's only 4.75" to start with and sacrificing another 3/4-1" of cutting edge just sucks.
I appreciate you input on this and am sure that there will be some bent ears and possibly sore asses at Buck when you get through.
I look forward to the time when I can afford one that you guys do. I'm eyeing the hell out of the MT-10. (Ahhhh, Dreeeaaaam.:D _
Doc
 
More than likely the sheaths were outsourced. The sheath doesn't look like something Buck manufactures. Maybe Mick will go to town and get some answers. Will be interesting to find out.

Originally posted by recondoc1
Glad to hear from you Mick,
I cant' be 100% that those aren't SOE sheaths as I don't know if SOE may have dropped in there quality or, perhaps, outscourced those sheaths for the production knife area. Have you received any sheaths from SOE that just had a "Made in the USA" tag vs. the "Special Operations Equipment" tag. Maybe SOE has just changed their MO. The overall quality of the new sheaths is not up to what they were in the earlier production work.
Click to expand...
 
hey doc,

good to see you are getting what you deserve. from what i have seen and experienced, striders kickass, and the strider guys will always go out of their way to make it right. if we ever get together you can play with my MT-L. i think that it will convince you to save up for the MT-10.
 
Recon...You got me chasing down threads all over these forums...

Some interesting things have come from your thread on the Buck Forum that I sent to our engineering group. We found a number of units that were not as sharp as they should have been. The 888 is a really thick bladed flat ground knife and the operator did not get it done. This has been addressed and is being monitored. Our average shop tenure is 13-15 years so these guys and gals know how to adjust what they are doing.

There are some design issues affecting the edge on how to handle the choil area, change the grind etc that are still being worked out. As part of the integrity of the collaborative process and a testament to our appreciation for the design expertise of Both Mick and Duane, They are involved with any changes we make and with our recent addition of Cormac heading up our tactical products this interaction will even improve.

I did ask about the sheath issue. There were changes in sheaths as I was told SOE used materials on hand so looks can vary from run to run but not quality. When SOE ceased operations for a while the sheaths were contracted to a vendor in oregon to original specs.

Are people having a sense that there are sheath quality issues for strider/buck collaborations??? Any experiences to that??

Feel free to post on the Buck Forum as I do not get over here all that often.

thanks
 
CJ,
Thanks for the great update. I just received my knife back from y'all this morning and it is outstanding. Please extend my thanks to Joe Houser, Jeff Hubbard and Wild Bill. Include yourself there at the top of the list.
The sheath that Joe sent back was one of the older ones (I believe it was actually from his personal Solution). There is a very evident difference. Not as much in the materials as in the workmanship and this may be due to the Oregon firm that you mentioned. Some folks might figure "2 rows of stitching vs. 3 rows, How big a difference could there be?" Well, they may increase production volume and get the order filled more quickly but the difference shows to the end user. Being one to take equipment to the limit and push it beyond many times, the extra row of stitch is a huge difference after a couple of long swims in the ocean and low crawling through sand and sludge over and over again. I know the guys at SOE know this as they are located right next door to Pendelton and deal with it regularly. That's why they build their stuff the way they do. The Oregon firm (Could that be Uncle Mike's?) just missed the point that folks really beat the hell out of gear like this. The sheath that I got originally looked pretty but I doubt it would have lasted through a couple months of hard training or operations.
Just my $0.02.
Another massive THANK YOU to all of the folks at Buck who have turned this, rather tepid, experience into a great one.
Kudos, kudos, kudos.
Doc
Semper Fi!
 
So now after all this, if I was to pursue buying the Strider Solution in ATS-34, do I have to jump through the hoops to get the same quality knife? How will I know if the one I get is part of the questionable batch versus a decent one especially with the sheath? I would like to know before I plunk down the money, too. :confused:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top