Need your advice on the Swamprat Howlingrat vs. the Busse Basic 3.

S

skywalker2

Joined
May 23, 2003
Messages
10
Hello guys,

I wanted to buy an Howlingrat but now somebody offers a Busse basic 3.

Modified infi vs. SR 101 steel: what knive should I buy?

Thanks for your advice,

Regards,

Skywalker.
 
I don't think you can go wrong with either...although I think the HR is a slightly larger blade....They both would serve you well!
 
I'm pretty sure that the Basic line was assymetrically ground, was it not? Just something to keep in mind, as the howling rat would have a slimmer edge for slicing, and you're not going to do much chopping with a blade that size.
Of course, if you're like me, the Basics became ten times as neat once they weren't available anymore, so it's a tough call. :)
 
Tough choice, they are both great blades.

I prefer the HR but I am somewhat biased.

Keep us updated on what you decide :D:D
 
... and if you ever blow out the handles, you can have newer and better ones made for attachement as well as refinishing the blade. Nothing against SR101 but if it was between that and INFI, I pick INFI. Good luck!
 
I had a Basic 3. IIRC I sold it. I have an HR. Ain't gonna sell it. ;) :D

Unless you have a specific need for the 3" blade of the Basic 3, my $0.02 is to get the 4-1/2" Howling Rat. And this from a person who is a HUGE fan of the Basic models. The biggest difference I noted is that the edge on the Basics is a lot thicker than on the HR. This difference IMHO makes the HR a much more efficient slicer & cutter than the Basics.

I find the HR is a very handy size knife for kitchen chores and place it near the top of my favorite knife short list. The Basic 3 may have proven to be a good skinner for hunting, but I never found a particular job for such a short blade that a folder wasn't handling for me in a handier & lighter weight package.
 
I must admit that I'll mainly use the knive for fishing (cutting off line, slicing open trout) and now and than for misc. tasks in and around the house. I don't know how 'bad' the slicing abilities of the Basic 3 are, but can you f.e. peal of the skin of an apple with it?

At this moment I've got an Al-Mar SERE 2000 folder which I like for its compact size. Blade is about 3,5 inch and the whole knive about 8.5 inch. Only I don't like it around the water and for slicing open trout (blood) with its hinge...
 
For slicing ability....go with the HR.I have one and it is a great slicer compared to my Busse 's .....most have the asymmetrical edge which is'nt really a great slicer compared to a symmetrical edge.
 
I would recommend not getting the Basic 3, unless you are looking for something that will be no better than a sharpened ugly bar. The edge geometry is such that it doesn't cut, slice or skin animals very well. A small knife like that should have a thinnly ground convex edge. After all, a small knife is not used for chopping and certainly not used to put the tracks back on a tank as many have said "this knife can"(mainly a false sense of security). It is too short to chop, and too fat to slice.
The HR may be the best option compared to the Basic 3. I have no experience with it.
 
Another vote for the HR, depending on your needs...
If you must have INFI, consider an Active Duty, but the price is a little bit higher (3X?)...
 
Originally posted by Lukers
I would recommend not getting the Basic 3, unless you are looking for something that will be no better than a sharpened ugly bar. The edge geometry is such that it doesn't cut, slice or skin animals very well. A small knife like that should have a thinnly ground convex edge. After all, a small knife is not used for chopping and certainly not used to put the tracks back on a tank as many have said "this knife can"(mainly a false sense of security). It is too short to chop, and too fat to slice.
The HR may be the best option compared to the Basic 3. I have no experience with it.
Click to expand...

So... let me get this straight... you are offering your opinion of one vs. the other with no actual experience with either knife?:rolleyes:
 
Spearhead
Allow me to quote myself...
"The HR may be the best option compared to the Basic 3. I have no experience with it. "
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I said that I have no experience with and I don't know for sure that it would be better. I owned two Basic 3's and the performance as a small knife was far from impressive. I am saying that most anything has to be better than the Basic 3. I was suggesting that the HR might be better. No I have had no experience with it...but I can speculate and say the Basic 3 may or may not be better(which is basically telling you what is obvious). Just because something has "Busse" on it doesn't mean that it will be a useful cutting tool. Although I do like the larger line for chopping, particularly the looks of the F SH and F BM.
 
Lukers,

Thank you for the clarification. Your original statement did not specify whether or not you had experience with either knife.

Just because something has "Busse" on it doesn't mean that it will be a useful cutting tool.
Click to expand...

Noted. I can't seem to cut a thing with my Blasting Cap. Likely reflecting my ineptitude with hand tools.

As to your assertion that small knives are only efficient cutting tools when ground with a convex edge... this is where our opinions part ways. I have never had a problem cutting anything (with the exception of rocks) with the Busse asym edge. Of course, my cutting ability with an asym edge has always been enhanced by keeping my knives sharp... but then, my convex ground knives have the same defect.
 
Sorry I did not specify that I have had experience with the Basic 3.I didn't mean to say that I think convex edges are the only ones that cut. I am sure that a thinner Asym edge might be a good cutter. I am speaking from experience with my Basic 3, Basic 5 Badger Attack 3, and Mean Street. All of them had very obtuse edges and when I used them on fish and deer, they didn't cut very efficiently. I kept a keen edge on them, but found that they couldn't cut through scales, hide and skin very well(compared to other knives). The Badger 3 did cut better after being sent to Cliff Stamp to be tested and reprofiled.

What is a Blasting Cap? I am not familiar with that model.

I would imagine a Busse model like a Active Duty or Skeleton Key would work quite well for field dressing. I think that smaller knives need to have a thinner stock with full flat grinds. Maybe a blade with even a hollow ground edge. My Strider AR has surprisingly good edge geometry and cutting ability for being made from 3/16 stock. It is because it is a wide blade with full flat grinds and somewhat of a distil taper.

Having said all this, just bought a SR "Coot" from Wilco. I am hoping that it will have good edge geometry. I would think that it would be about the same as the HR, but I have not had experience with either.
 
I have a three inch butter knife I put a convex edge on to make my sister a sewing knife. Perhaps I should try my hand at an asymetrical butter knife...you know, for the tougher stuff. ;)

I'll do a performance run-off and post my results. You know; frozen butter, fat free margarine--both slicing and chop tests! We'll settle this once and for all!! :D
 
Lukers, I wouldn't bet on the Bandicoot being a decent indicator for the edge thinness of the HR's edge. They are both made of 3/16" stock, but the HR is a taller (edge to spine dimension) knife. This may well lead to a more obtuse primary angle (or thicker edge) for the 'coot to reach spine thickness. If so, either of these factors would have some impact on the slicing performance of the coot.

I don't have a Bandicoot delivered to my house (yet :mad: ) so I have to go on the pictures for that blade. The HR I can vouch for from personal experience as being a good slicer for being made of 3/16" stock.
 
RokJok
Thank you for the clarification. I have yet to recieve the Bandicoot, but that is because I am out of the state where it was sent to. It's at my house but I am not there to play with it. I definitely can understand what you are saying about the blade width and edge geometry. That is why I have always thought the bigger,longer and wider Busses cut much better than the short ones. I would imagine that the HR does have better geometry than the Coot. Again I hope I don't come off as a "smarty pants". In every post I basically mean to say "this what I speculate from my past experience, but I don't exactly know it for sure" The HR seems to be very similar to the BA3. I wasn't impressed with the cutting ability of the BA3 until that was a lot of edge modification done. I do trust the heat treat, toughness, and unbreakable nature of any Busse or Swamp Rat, because I trust Jerry Busse. I know that I can use the knife without reserve for damaging it. I appreciate their warranty very much, and I know for a fact that Jerry and the sister company stand behind their products and wanting to please the customer. I mean, look at how much Jerry improved the wait time for one of his knives. He really has the customer in mind. He goes out of his way to make people happy, even when they were in the wrong. It may sound as though I have a harse opinion of the smaller knives, and maybe I do. But I think they are the best at what they were designed to be used for(prying and stabbing, not necessarily fine cutitng). Can't expect a knife to cover all fields though. I will still carry an SAK though for slicing and fine cutting though:)
Thank you again for the clarification.
Luke
 
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