New knives needed

C

Cookie87

Joined
Feb 15, 2024
Messages
17
Hello to all.

I am new around here and this is my first post, so...,Hiiiiiiiiiiiii!

I am on the hunt for some new kitchen knives, i am in the UK and currently use some "Jamie Oliver" 5 piece set, not great. I have a few Victorinox but nothing nice.

I have been looking at Wustof but then get told over priced.
Kai Shuns but told to avoid
Eden's - rip off Damascus

Its a minefield.

I just want some semi decent knives for everyday kitchen use, Euro or Japanese.

Ill be looking at a guided sharpener too.
 
What are your priorities when you say "semi-decent"?

Nice looking? Hold a sharp edge for longer? Do they need to be stainless?
 
Wusthof isn't over priced. It's a knife that retains value. The vintage models are collected. Because if someone comes across some in an estate sale. They get bought up.

You can find deals.
 
Cookie87 said:
A bit of it all, i dont want Ceramic but anything else goes.
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Well, philosophically the German/Euro style knives favor softer stainless that is a bit more on the side of durable but needing sharpening or maintenance more often. They also tend to have more belly to the profile for rocking style of cutting. Japanese style knives tend to favor harder steels(both stainless and non-stainless) and thinner geometry that tend to be more prone to edge damage if you are not mindful and tend to have a straighter profile for chopping. They are also a bit more specialized as far as the variety of profiles available.

I would say any of the moderately priced well known brands like Wusthof and Shun are "semi-decent". It's up to you whether or not they are value for money. Personally I would buy a Shun over a Wusthof between the two if they are comparable in price, but that's just me. Tojiro is another entry-level premium Japanese brand I would be looking at as well particularly the DP series. There are also inexpensive carbon steel knives around eg. Fujiwara Kanefusa that are pretty good value if you don't mind the patina and care needed for a non-stainless.

The problem I have with the premium German brands like Wusthof is that you can normally find much cheaper alternatives that are comparable in performance. You do probably get a much better warranty with Wusthof though and there are many people who love them. The fit and finish is generally very good.

Having said all that, I personally think the ability to sharpen the knives is the key. Even a knife that needs sharpening more often will be a pleasure to use if you can keep them sharp. So if you are a proficient sharpener or you have someone you can take them to will make a huge difference.
 
Factory knives from the top names, or at least the better lines from the top names, give you a lot of fit and finish & polish for the price. But you can get better blades for the money.
However, for people who buy these blades, durability is not included in "better". So you have to be honest with yourself here. Because if you hack things, if you pry frozen chicken, these nicer blades WILL NOT SURIVIVE. They will chip.
So there is a balance of qualities here. Knowing your price limit would help a lot too. I'll assume it's about $150 US because you are considering the Wusthof
Traditional German brands will be more durable. They are also thicker and heavier while having less edge retention. But if you want a knife that can butcher a chicken and do your other kitchen tasks too, it is a good choice.
Some German brands like Zwilling have Japanese style blades, which are thinner and harder. However, for steel harder also translates to "more brittle", so an abuser of knives damages it. They are distinguished by a lack of bolster.
Tojiro (DP line), a Japanese brand, gives you a lot of bang for the buck. The heat treatment is more consistent than the Shun Classic line, but there are small fit and fitness issues that don't affect performance. For a Japanese knife (J-knife) it is a "workhorse", on the heavier end but it can do it all.
Then you get to the lighter (for the length) J-knives that are thinner, harder steels. They will chip on you if you apply too much force, but slip through everything. For vegetables and boneless meats they are great and nothing else feels the same passing through food.
A site like Chef Knives to Go has reasonably priced J-knives and they ship to Europe, or at least used to. They have an associated forum to help you figure it out.
 
I think you're already doing quite well. Ultimately, it's a personal choice that only you can make. You know your own prep tasks and preferences for holding a knife and cutting, and how it feels when you use it. The biggest decision is really between softer and harder steels leading to Western vs. Japanese. For me, as an American, I look for a bit of cultural fusion that I've found in some Shun and Miyabi knives. That has been compromised since I've recently discovered the Chinese vegetable cleaver. See--I'm all over the place. Go to some shops, see how they feel in your hand, and go with your feelings. It will work out fine.
 
chalby said:
Well, philosophically the German/Euro style knives favor softer stainless that is a bit more on the side of durable but needing sharpening or maintenance more often. They also tend to have more belly to the profile for rocking style of cutting. Japanese style knives tend to favor harder steels(both stainless and non-stainless) and thinner geometry that tend to be more prone to edge damage if you are not mindful and tend to have a straighter profile for chopping. They are also a bit more specialized as far as the variety of profiles available.

I would say any of the moderately priced well known brands like Wusthof and Shun are "semi-decent". It's up to you whether or not they are value for money. Personally I would buy a Shun over a Wusthof between the two if they are comparable in price, but that's just me. Tojiro is another entry-level premium Japanese brand I would be looking at as well particularly the DP series. There are also inexpensive carbon steel knives around eg. Fujiwara Kanefusa that are pretty good value if you don't mind the patina and care needed for a non-stainless.

The problem I have with the premium German brands like Wusthof is that you can normally find much cheaper alternatives that are comparable in performance. You do probably get a much better warranty with Wusthof though and there are many people who love them. The fit and finish is generally very good.

Having said all that, I personally think the ability to sharpen the knives is the key. Even a knife that needs sharpening more often will be a pleasure to use if you can keep them sharp. So if you are a proficient sharpener or you have someone you can take them to will make a huge difference.
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I am just getting into sharpening - this is what has lead me down this new knife path to be fair.

What would you recommend then, over the Wustof
 
Cookie87 said:
I am just getting into sharpening - this is what has lead me down this new knife path to be fair.

What would you recommend then, over the Wustof
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It all depends on which way you want to go. There are quite a few knives made with the same steel that are much cheaper, but also lack some fit and finish if that's important to you. The cheaper ones are generally stamped vs drop forged in the Wusthof and usually a point or two softer in hardness(HRC). Victorinox Fibrox is one example that is well regarded as a workhorse that is on the more budget friendly side. It doesn't look as fancy though.

I prefer thinner knives in alloys that improve edge holding if I'm spending a moderate amount of money and most of the more affordable options are the Japanese brands. To be fair if money isn't an issue a lot of the European brands have premium lines with much better steels but you will generally pay big bucks for those.
 
chalby said:
It all depends on which way you want to go. There are quite a few knives made with the same steel that are much cheaper, but also lack some fit and finish if that's important to you. The cheaper ones are generally stamped vs drop forged in the Wusthof and usually a point or two softer in hardness(HRC). Victorinox Fibrox is one example that is well regarded as a workhorse that is on the more budget friendly side. It doesn't look as fancy though.

I prefer thinner knives in alloys that improve edge holding if I'm spending a moderate amount of money and most of the more affordable options are the Japanese brands. To be fair if money isn't an issue a lot of the European brands have premium lines with much better steels but you will generally pay big bucks for those.
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you got some links buddy?
 
Cookie87 said:
you got some links buddy?
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I believe the forum rules prohibit posting links for non-supported knife sellers.
But in gthe UK, you can find Tojiro DP knives at Knives & Tools and Chefslocker.
I have used Tojiros for decades and have never had issues. I believe they heat treat
their VG10 very well. In contrast have repaired almost countless VG10 knives of lesser brands.
 
Cookie87 said:
you got some links buddy?
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Are you really ready to make a purchase based on a suggestion or two and some links? The knife you choose must work for you--and there are many many that you could choose that could work well in your home kitchen. It's really time to get down to a shop and get your hands on a few, face to face.
 
Shuns get a lot of undue hate but they are excellent knives and the prices are fair. the one brand I would suggest to avoid unless you like spending $100 to $500 on a kitchen knife just to have spends hours modifying it in order to make it actually perform well is Miyabi. The grinds on Miyabis are terrible. Those were basically the first nice knives I got. Here I sit 10 grand later and I've seen it all. Absolutely nothing wrong with Shuns. Idiots destroy them because unlike say Miyabis the bevels are actually ground thin and essentially all the way to the edge. So yes, it's a very light delicate knife made for fine cutting not some magical samuari sword you're going to chop things in half with. They are not prone to damage any more than any other knife made of a similar steel with a similar geometry. They are well balanced as well. Lots of knife bros have a hard on for so called "artisan knives" not realizing a lot of of the most popular ones are first of all made the same way all these things are made, just in a lower volume and minus you know... quality control. tight tolerances. warranties. etc. then these resellers train customers to be okay with shit fit and finish on even $500 knives, oh yea are you familiar with their "work" as if it's one guy in a shed making the knife and not a factory like any other just on a smaller scale. Brands I'd avoid. Miyabi, and avoid Takefu hype knives unless you overpaying for over rated knives.

Some of my best "factory" knive are yaxells because of how cheap you can get them. The brand isn't well known so they often go on firesale. I got that Ketu 200 mm gyoto for like $120. If I showed you a choil shot you might think it's a Yoshikane. Superb knife, with excellent steel, high fit and finish, decent balance, and you just can't find other SG2 knives that cheap. Even basic knives like say tojiro pro which has a vastly thicker grind on it and doesn't have the tricked out fit and finish costs $200.

You want suggestions for brands and stuff I really like. Basically my favorite stuff.. Yoshikane. Ryusen. Nigara. Sukenari. Nakagawa, Konosuke, etc. and yes, Shun is good too. Nothing wrong with it.

Stuff I don't like. Miyabi is terrible. Though the KOH is a monosteel AEBL with a nice handle and if you want a project knives, I've reground them into killer Japanese single edge and chisel ground lasers. I also really don't like Takefu hype knives which are the most common and popular Japanese so called "artisan" knives. Yes you can find some decent stuff from there if you know what to get but it's all vastly over priced for what it is.
 
Most of my nicer kitchen knives are Shun. Never had any problem with them myself. The problem comes from people who are used to junk knives all their lives who never really took care of them - tossed them in the sink, put them in the dishwasher, put them rattling around in a "knife drawer" with other stuff. [Edited to add: I was once one of these people until I invested the time and money to educate myself on cutlery, sharpening & maintenance, food prep & cooking techniques, rather late in life.]

Then when they get their hands on a nicer knife that has a more refined, thinner edge and harder steel, they don't adjust their habits.
That's a user issue. Which is fine, those people should just continue to use the kinds of knives they are comfortable with if they are not willing to treat higher quality tools properly. Cheap knives that are sharp will still cut up some carrots and 'taters for the stew pot.
 
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jc57 said:
Most of my nicer kitchen knives are Shun. Never had any problem with them myself. The problem comes from people who are used to junk knives all their lives who never really took care of them - tossed them in the sink, put them in the dishwasher, put them rattling around in a "knife drawer" with other stuff.

Then when they get their hands on a nicer knife that has a more refined, thinner edge and harder steel, they don't adjust their habits.
That's a user issue. Which is fine, those people should just continue to use the kinds of knives they are comfortable with if they are not willing to treat higher quality tools properly. Cheap knives that are sharp will still cut up some carrots and 'taters for the stew pot.
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I'm also a fan of Shun--most recently dual core karitsuke.
 
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