- Joined
- Aug 18, 2009
- Messages
- 379
True, I did not read the entire thread. Apologies for not coming at this armed with all the pertinent info.
But I'm glad to hear that the U.S. is not part of the poaching problem in Africa today.
New US Ban on Sale of Elephant Ivory
- Thread starter John White
- Start date
True, I did not read the entire thread. Apologies for not coming at this armed with all the pertinent info.
But I'm glad to hear that the U.S. is not part of the poaching problem in Africa today.
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2001
- Messages
- 40
Thanks for the kind words about the article, guys. Please distribute it freely, and the sooner the better as things are happening quickly and the info will be outdated before you know it (some bits already are).
Interested in the fundraising knife, that's a good idea. Will PM you, Mark...
Mark Z
Knife World magazine
Interested in the fundraising knife, that's a good idea. Will PM you, Mark...
Mark Z
Knife World magazine
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2009
- Messages
- 550
I love ivory as I have said on prior occasions, what I find difficult to believe is that on one has "invented"
a truly legitimate alternative to the natural material. I know that there has been "fake" ivory, but it in no way
is it reflective of the real deal, lacking the veining and color nuances of "real" ivory.
Some people in Russia "grew" imitation diamonds that are so real as to fool experts, surely an American scientist
could develop an alternative to Elephant Ivory.
Jeff
a truly legitimate alternative to the natural material. I know that there has been "fake" ivory, but it in no way
is it reflective of the real deal, lacking the veining and color nuances of "real" ivory.
Some people in Russia "grew" imitation diamonds that are so real as to fool experts, surely an American scientist
could develop an alternative to Elephant Ivory.
Jeff
Mark Knapp
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2009
- Messages
- 4,421
The real deal will always be more valuable than the imitation because it IS the real deal. If it was exactly like the real deal in all ways, it still would not be as valuable. The heart wants what it wants. I think the point here is there is not really a need for an exact imitation, we just need to use (or not use) the real thing responsibly. The struggle here is figuring out what is responsible.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2009
- Messages
- 550
I've been involved with custom knives for more years than I care to admit, Ivory and Stag are my favorite handle materials.
As has been stated, and you Mark reiterate, the problem with over usage does not exist here, but there are too many individuals that
think they can save the world by denying a small group of legitimate collectors and knife makers a prized material. These people will ONLY
energize the poachers into greater pursuit of their illegal gain. What a shame that so many have to suffer because of these criminals!
Jeff
As has been stated, and you Mark reiterate, the problem with over usage does not exist here, but there are too many individuals that
think they can save the world by denying a small group of legitimate collectors and knife makers a prized material. These people will ONLY
energize the poachers into greater pursuit of their illegal gain. What a shame that so many have to suffer because of these criminals!
Jeff
- Joined
- Oct 14, 1998
- Messages
- 2,131
There is synthetic ivory available. I know of one alternative ivory that looks so similar the developer was arrested by customs when they found slabs in his luggage.
The advantages of synthetic ivory are: no legal questions, no shrinkage, no cracking, no movement and lower cost. The disadvantage is, it's not ivory.
I don't think synthetic ivory will become popular until it is accepted and requested by collectors.
Chuck
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2006
- Messages
- 14,827
I love white linen Micarta and think it can be beautiful
But ivory it is not
it's just more durable
In my mind you either use animal products or you do not
Eating a cheeseburger or wearing a fur is the same thing and that goes with ivory
I eat cheese burgers
But ivory it is not
it's just more durable In my mind you either use animal products or you do not
Eating a cheeseburger or wearing a fur is the same thing and that goes with ivory
I eat cheese burgers
Mark Knapp
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2009
- Messages
- 4,421
OK, we are off to a great start on the fund raisers. Here's the deal, we are making two knives, one to raise money for an organization that is on the ground in Africa fighting poaching. I have a couple of things to check out about them , and then we will make it official. The second knife is going to Kniferights to help us protect the rights, privileges and private property of good Americans.
On one knife, we have Russ Andrews making the damascus, Dave Lisch on the blade, Mike Quesenberry and Paul Long, would still like to find an engraver for this one.
On the other knife, we have Gary House, Bill Burke and Don Hanson. Would still like to find an engraver and a silver sheath maker for this one.
Any help at all would be appreciated. Thanks Mark
On one knife, we have Russ Andrews making the damascus, Dave Lisch on the blade, Mike Quesenberry and Paul Long, would still like to find an engraver for this one.
On the other knife, we have Gary House, Bill Burke and Don Hanson. Would still like to find an engraver and a silver sheath maker for this one.
Any help at all would be appreciated. Thanks Mark
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2001
- Messages
- 40
Four ABS Mastersmiths, two ABS Journeyman Smiths, and a sheathmaker.... that says a lot about the ABS members. Surely there's a grinder out there who'd like to help too?
Mark Z
Mark Z
Mark Knapp
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2009
- Messages
- 4,421
Hi all, I was on the phone for a little over an hour with Brian Adams of Wildaid last night to talk about our differences and hopefully to work on the things we agree on. He is a very nice guy, and seems to be truly interested in making things better for elephants. My impression is, he's not a zealot and not in it because the elephant issue is a money maker.
We agreed on many things, certainly that the most important thing is preserving elephants. We also agreed that the most effective way to save elephants is to concentrate efforts in China and Africa where the problem exists. Where we did not agree is in the area where the US may or may not contribute to the problem, he feels like (with out knowing for sure) it is higher than we (I) do, though he was willing to concede some points. We may have been able to reach an understanding in this area.
In the end, his organization will not be able to partner with a group like ours, not for philosophical reasons, but for appearances and fund raising. If they were seen to be working with us, some of their' big money donors may not contribute to the cause. On a cost/benefit bases working with us would be detrimental to their work.
I believe the group is a good one and is doing more for elephant than anyone. If you want to help elephants on a personal level, you should join them. Be a member, send them some money and take their' pledge.
Brian gave me the names of two other groups that we may be able to work with, one of them is based in Africa, their' mission is to actually combat poaching there. I will do some homework and tell you more soon.
We agreed on many things, certainly that the most important thing is preserving elephants. We also agreed that the most effective way to save elephants is to concentrate efforts in China and Africa where the problem exists. Where we did not agree is in the area where the US may or may not contribute to the problem, he feels like (with out knowing for sure) it is higher than we (I) do, though he was willing to concede some points. We may have been able to reach an understanding in this area.
In the end, his organization will not be able to partner with a group like ours, not for philosophical reasons, but for appearances and fund raising. If they were seen to be working with us, some of their' big money donors may not contribute to the cause. On a cost/benefit bases working with us would be detrimental to their work.
I believe the group is a good one and is doing more for elephant than anyone. If you want to help elephants on a personal level, you should join them. Be a member, send them some money and take their' pledge.
Brian gave me the names of two other groups that we may be able to work with, one of them is based in Africa, their' mission is to actually combat poaching there. I will do some homework and tell you more soon.
Once again, Mark-thank you for your efforts :thumbup:. I think positive change is far more likely if more people directed their passion in such a productive manner as you have/do.
And as for the knives... I can't imagine I would come close to having the disposable income necessary to own one of those being made and donated. But I sure look forward to seeing them. Thank you to all who are donating their time, skills, and materials.
Jeremy
And as for the knives... I can't imagine I would come close to having the disposable income necessary to own one of those being made and donated. But I sure look forward to seeing them
. Thank you to all who are donating their time, skills, and materials. Jeremy
I have put my name to this project because this knife is going to Knife Rights and Mark is doing the best he can.
The only thing I support is fighting the ivory ban. I do not support anything anti hunting or save the elephant by banning hunting. I do support anti poaching.
I do not support wild aid. I believe they are anti elephant hunting. I have stated before that the hunting industry and the money they bring to the table is the only thing that can save the elephant.
If there are collectors that feel my participation devalues this project please let me know and I will respectfully decline. I thought the whole purpose of this thread and project was to fight the ivory ban.
Gary House
ABS MasterSmith 2012
The only thing I support is fighting the ivory ban. I do not support anything anti hunting or save the elephant by banning hunting. I do support anti poaching.
I do not support wild aid. I believe they are anti elephant hunting. I have stated before that the hunting industry and the money they bring to the table is the only thing that can save the elephant.
If there are collectors that feel my participation devalues this project please let me know and I will respectfully decline. I thought the whole purpose of this thread and project was to fight the ivory ban.
Gary House
ABS MasterSmith 2012
Mark Knapp
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2009
- Messages
- 4,421
Gary, You have the right to put you efforts where you want them to go, the knife you are working on is going to Kniferights to fight infringement on our activities. None of this knife is going to Wildaid. In fact none of what we are doing is going to Wildaid. The precedes from the other knife is going to an organization that fights poaching in Africa, they have nothing to do anything political.
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2013
- Messages
- 32,479
I would like to remind all of you folks that prefer ivory on elephants like I do to make sure your representatives and the white house know that there are different kinds of ivory.
Ancient ivories such as Mastodon, Wooly Mammoth along with Walrus etc that are already extinct and fossilized, then there are modern ivories.
We need to make sure that Ancient fossilized ivories are not included in any ban.
I have already contacted my reps. Now to contact the white house.
Ancient ivories such as Mastodon, Wooly Mammoth along with Walrus etc that are already extinct and fossilized, then there are modern ivories.
We need to make sure that Ancient fossilized ivories are not included in any ban.
I have already contacted my reps. Now to contact the white house.
Evidently there will be a meeting on the twentieth of this month of the USFWS advisory counsel The email from David Warther stated the importance of sending a letter stating any concerns. The contract that was given is: Cade London cade_london@fws.gov . I do not think this is the official comment period. I googled ivory ban last night. It seems a sleeping giant is waking up as I had hoped. I do not know if it will do any good but it the opposition to this taking is growing.
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2012
- Messages
- 1,355
I received an email from Rick Bowles (Scrimshaw artist specializing in Randall Knives) yesterday along with a letter drafted by an attorney in PA. The letter is a form and he encourages all interested parties to copy and send it: The attorney's email and the letter has some good information about the status of this issue and effect of this new ban. Mark Knapp, thank you for all your work and please forgive me if this is posted elsewhere in this thread.:
The Advisory Council on Wildlife Trafficking is holding a meeting on March
20, 2014 in Washington, D.C. People who will not attend need to submit
written comments about the ban by this Monday, March 17. I am strongly
urging people to e-mail written comments to the Council to create a record
of the devastating impact this ban will have not only on small businesses
and individual collectors, but ultimately on elephants.
I am attaching a model letter that you can use to submit your comments.
Plagiarize at will. Forward this to friends. Use the whole thing, your
favorite parts, or ignore it and submit your own comments, but SUBMIT
SOMETHING. The record is now filled with information and misinformation
from people who want to see the domestic ivory trade killed. If your views
are not expressed at this meeting, they will be missing from the
government's record, only making it more difficult for later challenges if
USFWS promulgates the Draconian rules most people expect.
All comments must be delivered no later than March 17 to Mr. Cade London,
Special Assistant, USFWS International Affairs, by email at
cade_london@fws.gov<mailto:cade_london@fws.gov> (preferable method of
contact); by U.S. mail at 4401 North Fairfax Drive, Room 110, Arlington, VA
22203; by telephone at (703) 358-2584; or by fax at (703) 358-2276.
Even if USFWS ignores what you have to say, it is critical that you get your
comments on record by the deadline. If we succeed in getting large numbers
of people to write in, then politicians will take note. Even if only a
modest number of people write, then your interests will be part of the
record in subsequent comment periods and/or litigation.
Attorney Rob Mitchell
The Advisory Council on Wildlife Trafficking is holding a meeting on March
20, 2014 in Washington, D.C. People who will not attend need to submit
written comments about the ban by this Monday, March 17. I am strongly
urging people to e-mail written comments to the Council to create a record
of the devastating impact this ban will have not only on small businesses
and individual collectors, but ultimately on elephants.
I am attaching a model letter that you can use to submit your comments.
Plagiarize at will. Forward this to friends. Use the whole thing, your
favorite parts, or ignore it and submit your own comments, but SUBMIT
SOMETHING. The record is now filled with information and misinformation
from people who want to see the domestic ivory trade killed. If your views
are not expressed at this meeting, they will be missing from the
government's record, only making it more difficult for later challenges if
USFWS promulgates the Draconian rules most people expect.
All comments must be delivered no later than March 17 to Mr. Cade London,
Special Assistant, USFWS International Affairs, by email at
cade_london@fws.gov<mailto:cade_london@fws.gov> (preferable method of
contact); by U.S. mail at 4401 North Fairfax Drive, Room 110, Arlington, VA
22203; by telephone at (703) 358-2584; or by fax at (703) 358-2276.
Even if USFWS ignores what you have to say, it is critical that you get your
comments on record by the deadline. If we succeed in getting large numbers
of people to write in, then politicians will take note. Even if only a
modest number of people write, then your interests will be part of the
record in subsequent comment periods and/or litigation.
Attorney Rob Mitchell
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2012
- Messages
- 1,355
I have tried to attach the form letter referenced above but having trouble. I tried it as pdf as Word and even tried just pasting it into the response but BF is being difficult. I will try again later tonight. If anyone would like a copy of the letter, just PM me your email and I will forward Bowles email.
Mark Knapp
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2009
- Messages
- 4,421
I have written my own letter, it is good if a bunch of different letters are used, use mine at will (change it up if you like), and use others.
Here is some information from Kniferights.org on how to use these letters;
Also, please call or email your Congressman at 1-202-224-3121 and ask them to oppose the Ivory Ban. Locate your Congressman at: http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/
Also, the Advisory Council on Wildlife Trafficking, instigators of this outrageous ban, will be holding a meeting on March 20, 2014. Information on the meeting can be found at: http://1.usa.gov/1fgsZbN Please submit a written letter NO LATER THAN March 17 to: cade_london@fws.gov. For those tempted to attend, please note that they allocate only 30 minutes to the "public," so the actual time to speak is often less than two minutes, according to those in the know.
When you write, PLEASE BE POLITE. The more personalized it is, the more impact it has. Just copying the points below is better than nothing, but it is far better to put it into your own words and emphasize your own situation, how it effects you, and your personal point of view.
The points to emphasize:
While you strongly support conservation efforts, this will likely result in an increase in elephant poaching, opposite what is intended. This will only lead to more slaughter of elephants!
"Takes" hundreds of millions of dollars of Americans' investments in ivory in violation of the 5th Amendment.
Presumes guilt, making all ivory owners criminals, no need for the government to factually establish illicit activity, which is both un-American and irrational.
No practical way for most Americans to establish their ivory is legal. Establishing exceptions based on evidence virtually nobody can provide is patently abusive.
The current system and rules have proven effective at restricting U.S. trade in illegal ivory, no need to fix what's not broken. The problem is not the U.S. and this outrageous ban in the U.S will not affect the huge market for illegal black market ivory in China and elsewhere. In its September 2012 Fact Sheet, the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service (USFWS) stated, "we do not believe that there is a significant illegal ivory trade into this country," clear proof by the agency enforcing this ban that this is not a problem in the U.S.
Traveling to Washington and opposing this outrageous ivory ban is not going to be easy. Please donate today to help us protect your rights and interests.
Donate to the Knife Rights Second Front Fund TODAY!
Call Toll-Free: 1-866-889-6268
- See more at: http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=256&Itemid=1#ivory
Dear (representative, fill in name)
I urge you to please do what you can to stop the President’s agenda regarding trafficking of illicit elephant ivory for the following reasons;
• Studies by ETIS (the Elephant Trade Information System set up by CITES) indicate that virtually none of the ivory from elephants being poached in Africa today is coming to the US and has not been for some time. Pages 16, 17 and 18 of “African Elephant Summit Background Document 2013
https://cmsdata.iucn.org/downloads/african_elephant_summit_background_document_2013_en.pdf
• Another study by ETIS indicated that laws passed in the US have little effect on elephant populations. Page 5 “Martin Stiles Ivory Markets in the US” http://www.savetheelephants.org/fil... Martin & Stiles Ivory Markets in the USA.pdf
• These same studies indicate that the US is already, the world leader in the fight against trafficking of illicit animal parts, out of 89 counties studied, by far.
• Fact sheets by the USF&W Service state that "we do not believe that there is a significant illegal ivory trade into this country."
• Millions of good people in the US will be adversely affected by current directives being handed down by the administration. They include owners of musical instruments, knives and tools antiques of all kinds, guns and countless family heirlooms of all kinds.
• Good people in the US have demonstrated that they have/and continue to abide by current laws and regulations regarding elephant ivory. To change laws and regulations that they have been operating under for almost thirty years and make their’ activities unlawful is unjust and not proper especially since It can be demonstrated that the new regulations being passed down by executive order will not save a single elephant in Africa.
• The new regulations being handed down are in clear violation of the basic foundations of American law, that of “innocents until proven guilty” and the Fifth Amendment.
Elephants and good people in the US would be much better served if the administration would concentrate its efforts on;
• Programs to stop poaching on the ground in Africa, there are organizations there that can use some support.
• Helping to educate people in Asia about the devastating effects of poaching in Africa, there are organizations doing it already.
• Educating US citizens, that travel abroad, about the trafficking of illicit ivory. Studies show that the overwhelming majority of the ivory that reaches US borders is by otherwise good people unknowingly buying jewelry and trinkets of ivory and wanting to bring it home.
• Exerting pressure on governments that allow the slaughter of elephants and the trafficking and trade of illicit ivory.
• Providing aid in the way of financial support, expertize and technology to countries to fight poaching, trafficking and trade in illicit ivory.
If Americans care enough about elephants, we can preserve them as well as the rights, privileges and personal belongings of good, honest people. If we don't care enough and all we do is take away the things that Americans hold dear, the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" and the fifth amendment, then we can not say we have done all we could do. It's going to take Americans working together to solve a problem as big as the one in Africa. We cannot work together if rights, privileges and personal property are taken away from so many of us. The problems in African will continue and we have given up so much for no good reason.
Respectfully (your name)
Here is some information from Kniferights.org on how to use these letters;
Also, please call or email your Congressman at 1-202-224-3121 and ask them to oppose the Ivory Ban. Locate your Congressman at: http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/
Also, the Advisory Council on Wildlife Trafficking, instigators of this outrageous ban, will be holding a meeting on March 20, 2014. Information on the meeting can be found at: http://1.usa.gov/1fgsZbN Please submit a written letter NO LATER THAN March 17 to: cade_london@fws.gov. For those tempted to attend, please note that they allocate only 30 minutes to the "public," so the actual time to speak is often less than two minutes, according to those in the know.
When you write, PLEASE BE POLITE. The more personalized it is, the more impact it has. Just copying the points below is better than nothing, but it is far better to put it into your own words and emphasize your own situation, how it effects you, and your personal point of view.
The points to emphasize:
While you strongly support conservation efforts, this will likely result in an increase in elephant poaching, opposite what is intended. This will only lead to more slaughter of elephants!
"Takes" hundreds of millions of dollars of Americans' investments in ivory in violation of the 5th Amendment.
Presumes guilt, making all ivory owners criminals, no need for the government to factually establish illicit activity, which is both un-American and irrational.
No practical way for most Americans to establish their ivory is legal. Establishing exceptions based on evidence virtually nobody can provide is patently abusive.
The current system and rules have proven effective at restricting U.S. trade in illegal ivory, no need to fix what's not broken. The problem is not the U.S. and this outrageous ban in the U.S will not affect the huge market for illegal black market ivory in China and elsewhere. In its September 2012 Fact Sheet, the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service (USFWS) stated, "we do not believe that there is a significant illegal ivory trade into this country," clear proof by the agency enforcing this ban that this is not a problem in the U.S.
Traveling to Washington and opposing this outrageous ivory ban is not going to be easy. Please donate today to help us protect your rights and interests.
Donate to the Knife Rights Second Front Fund TODAY!
Call Toll-Free: 1-866-889-6268
- See more at: http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=256&Itemid=1#ivory
Dear (representative, fill in name)
I urge you to please do what you can to stop the President’s agenda regarding trafficking of illicit elephant ivory for the following reasons;
• Studies by ETIS (the Elephant Trade Information System set up by CITES) indicate that virtually none of the ivory from elephants being poached in Africa today is coming to the US and has not been for some time. Pages 16, 17 and 18 of “African Elephant Summit Background Document 2013
https://cmsdata.iucn.org/downloads/african_elephant_summit_background_document_2013_en.pdf
• Another study by ETIS indicated that laws passed in the US have little effect on elephant populations. Page 5 “Martin Stiles Ivory Markets in the US” http://www.savetheelephants.org/fil... Martin & Stiles Ivory Markets in the USA.pdf
• These same studies indicate that the US is already, the world leader in the fight against trafficking of illicit animal parts, out of 89 counties studied, by far.
• Fact sheets by the USF&W Service state that "we do not believe that there is a significant illegal ivory trade into this country."
• Millions of good people in the US will be adversely affected by current directives being handed down by the administration. They include owners of musical instruments, knives and tools antiques of all kinds, guns and countless family heirlooms of all kinds.
• Good people in the US have demonstrated that they have/and continue to abide by current laws and regulations regarding elephant ivory. To change laws and regulations that they have been operating under for almost thirty years and make their’ activities unlawful is unjust and not proper especially since It can be demonstrated that the new regulations being passed down by executive order will not save a single elephant in Africa.
• The new regulations being handed down are in clear violation of the basic foundations of American law, that of “innocents until proven guilty” and the Fifth Amendment.
Elephants and good people in the US would be much better served if the administration would concentrate its efforts on;
• Programs to stop poaching on the ground in Africa, there are organizations there that can use some support.
• Helping to educate people in Asia about the devastating effects of poaching in Africa, there are organizations doing it already.
• Educating US citizens, that travel abroad, about the trafficking of illicit ivory. Studies show that the overwhelming majority of the ivory that reaches US borders is by otherwise good people unknowingly buying jewelry and trinkets of ivory and wanting to bring it home.
• Exerting pressure on governments that allow the slaughter of elephants and the trafficking and trade of illicit ivory.
• Providing aid in the way of financial support, expertize and technology to countries to fight poaching, trafficking and trade in illicit ivory.
If Americans care enough about elephants, we can preserve them as well as the rights, privileges and personal belongings of good, honest people. If we don't care enough and all we do is take away the things that Americans hold dear, the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" and the fifth amendment, then we can not say we have done all we could do. It's going to take Americans working together to solve a problem as big as the one in Africa. We cannot work together if rights, privileges and personal property are taken away from so many of us. The problems in African will continue and we have given up so much for no good reason.
Respectfully (your name)
Last edited:
Mark Knapp
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2009
- Messages
- 4,421
This is the sample letter provided by David Warther, feel free to use it.
<Insert your name
and address here>
VIA EMAIL: cade_london@fws.gov
Cade London
Special Assistant, USFWS International Affairs
Advisory Council on Wildlife Trafficking
4401 North Fairfax Drive, Room 110
Arlington, VA 22203
RE: My Comments on the National Strategy for Combating Wildlife
Trafficking & Commercial Ban on Trade in Elephant Ivory and its
implementation by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Dear Mr. London,
I support the goal of stopping the barbaric and criminal poaching of
elephants in Africa, Asia, or anywhere else in the world. Because of the
important artistic, practical, historical and economic value of ivory, I am
also in favor of preserving the trade of domestic ivory in the United
States. Both goals can be accomplished, and I want to provide the Advisory
Council with information and ideas to make this happen.
<Briefly describe who you are and what your interest is in ivory.>
Current Laws Already Isolate the US Market from Poached Ivory
In the USFWS September 2012 Fact Sheet, U.S. Efforts to Control Illegal
Elephant Ivory Trade and Internal Markets, the Service summarized US laws
already in effect and efforts to stop poaching of Asian and African
elephants. The report described the Service's seizures of illegally
imported ivory between 1989 (the year the ban on African elephant
international trade went into effect) through 2007 and concluded that "we do
not believe that there is a significant illegal ivory trade into this
country." The report further noted that "[t]he U.S. Public and other
international travelers often unwittingly purchase and import ivory products
in to the United States only to have them confiscated at the ports. We hope
to reduce global ivory traffic by informing international travelers of the
domestic and international laws controlling the movement of ivory through
outreach efforts such as this fact sheet."
The Service's conclusions were entirely consistent with independent studies
conducted by international organizations tasked with wild life conservation
and monitoring & fighting illegal ivory trade. Most recently, in the
December 2013 report "Status of African elephant populations and levels of
illegal killing and the illegal trade in ivory: A report to the African
Elephant Summit" by the International Union for Conservation of Nature,
African Elephant Specialist Group, they found that while elephant poaching
in Africa is on the increase, the trend is closely associated with increases
in consumer spending in China, the world's largest consumer of illegal
ivory. On the other hand, the relationship does not hold for ivory markets
in Europe, the USA or Japan, nor for countries know to be transit points in
the ivory trade chain (Malaysia, Philippines, Thailand or Viet Nam). When
further discussing trade routes for poached elephant ivory and showing maps
of those routes with estimates of illegal ivory transferred, the report does
not show any illegal trade involving the United States after 2008.
The United States is not contributing to elephant poaching in any meaningful
way because current laws in the U.S. are working. When the 1989 ban on
exporting and importing African ivory went into place, it allowed the
domestic trade of ivory that was already in the United States ("pre-ban
ivory") to continue. The export limitations discouraged big businesses from
using ivory in products, but small businesses have continued to make,
repair, embellish and trade pre ban ivory along with antique ivory. People
who dealt regularly with ivory were very aware of the regulatory structures,
as reflected the small number of seizures and tiny amounts of illegal ivory
confiscated in the United States in recent years from dealers or businesses.
Also, pricing confirms the stability of ivory trade in the United States.
Domestically, the cost of raw ivory has been around $250 per pound, whereas
in China, where illegal ivory flourishes, ivory can cost as much as $1500
per pound. Given the price discrepancy, it is obvious where illegal
poachers will peddle their ivory.
If not from poachers, where does raw ivory come from in the United States?
There are a variety of sources including a few dealers who carry documented
pre-ban ivory, museums with excess ivory in stock, estate sales of people
who collected ivory, and a small amount from people who legally hunt
elephants on safari with government permission from stable populations and
who fund conservation efforts in African countries. With the ample supply
of ivory already in the U.S., there simply has been no need to risk
smuggling illegal ivory. For this reason, the US has successfully isolated
its domestic market from illegal poaching.
Enormous Costs of Domestic Ivory Ban Outweigh Non-Existent Benefit
Notwithstanding the success the U.S. has had in keeping poached ivory out of
its domestic market, the regulations that USFWS are considering would kill
it.
There are well over 3000 small businesses in the United States that use,
embellish, repair, restore, or provide services involving ivory. Guitar and
banjo repair shops, piano restorers and movers, silversmiths, religious
product dealers, antique dealers, tool & knife makers, gunsmiths, engravers,
jewelers, art galleries, museums - all of these entities will be penalized
by denying them materials for their trade or products that they rely upon
and have nothing to do with elephant poaching in Africa. Galleries and
museums will not be able to charge admission to exhibits containing ivory.
Artisans and craftspeople who have dedicated their lives to ivory carving
will become obsolete or criminals, losing their livelihoods. And that is
just on the business side.
On the consumer side, millions of people who own items that contain ivory
will be severely limited with what they can do with it. Musicians will not
be able to repair or refurbish their instruments. Art collectors, from high
end Nitsuke collectors to people trading collectibles on eBay, will see the
value of their collections plummet to $0. People who lose family members
will have difficulty resolving estates. Cultural and religious items from
statues to rosary beads will become contraband. All of these items made
from ivory taken from elephants that died decades if not generations ago
will drop out of the legal stream of commerce without preventing a single
elephant from dying in Africa.
Worse than that, if regulations are adopted that require paperwork to prove
the age or pedigree of ivory when the government knows full well such
paperwork never existed because it was or is unnecessary to create under
then-existing or current law, people will disrespect the law. If antique
dealers and collectors need to prove items were imported through ports even
though the items came to this country before there were requirements to use
certain ports to import ivory, their cynicism with the government will be
well justified. If regulations are jammed through without giving the
law-abiding people they will punish adequate time to respond or due
consideration of their views, then the people's frustration and anger will
predictably erupt.
Recommendations
Instead of antagonizing law abiding citizens engaged in trade in the United
States, the government should focus its efforts where they belong - on
border enforcement and affecting demand in China. To the extent tourists
carry undocumented ivory across borders, the USFWS should follow its own
counsel from its 2012 Fact Sheet. To the extent the government believes
poaching to be an international crisis as stated in Executive Order 13648,
then the now well-known NSA data monitoring and spying efforts should be
shared with foreign governments to intercept trade routes, capture poachers,
and condemn Asian traders who unscrupulously deal in poached ivory. Those
are far more direct and effective ways of affecting illicit Chinese trade
and saving elephants' lives.
Domestic Ivory Ban Will Increase the Slaughter of Elephants
One final thought. Dr. Daniel Stiles, a world renowned expert on African
elephants and a prominent member of conservation organization, has recently
concluded that the initiatives under consideration in the United States will
dramatically increase elephant poaching instead of decreasing it. Crushing
the domestic market in the United States will make the legal supply of ivory
disappear. As ivory becomes rarer, prices will increase, giving poachers an
even greater incentive to kill elephants for their valuable tusks. It would
be catastrophic to destroy the lives of innocent artisans, ruin the finances
of legitimate businesses, deprive people of lifelong collections, and in the
process reward poachers for slaughtering elephants.
Very truly yours,
<YOUR SIGNATURE>
<Insert your name
and address here>
VIA EMAIL: cade_london@fws.gov
Cade London
Special Assistant, USFWS International Affairs
Advisory Council on Wildlife Trafficking
4401 North Fairfax Drive, Room 110
Arlington, VA 22203
RE: My Comments on the National Strategy for Combating Wildlife
Trafficking & Commercial Ban on Trade in Elephant Ivory and its
implementation by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Dear Mr. London,
I support the goal of stopping the barbaric and criminal poaching of
elephants in Africa, Asia, or anywhere else in the world. Because of the
important artistic, practical, historical and economic value of ivory, I am
also in favor of preserving the trade of domestic ivory in the United
States. Both goals can be accomplished, and I want to provide the Advisory
Council with information and ideas to make this happen.
<Briefly describe who you are and what your interest is in ivory.>
Current Laws Already Isolate the US Market from Poached Ivory
In the USFWS September 2012 Fact Sheet, U.S. Efforts to Control Illegal
Elephant Ivory Trade and Internal Markets, the Service summarized US laws
already in effect and efforts to stop poaching of Asian and African
elephants. The report described the Service's seizures of illegally
imported ivory between 1989 (the year the ban on African elephant
international trade went into effect) through 2007 and concluded that "we do
not believe that there is a significant illegal ivory trade into this
country." The report further noted that "[t]he U.S. Public and other
international travelers often unwittingly purchase and import ivory products
in to the United States only to have them confiscated at the ports. We hope
to reduce global ivory traffic by informing international travelers of the
domestic and international laws controlling the movement of ivory through
outreach efforts such as this fact sheet."
The Service's conclusions were entirely consistent with independent studies
conducted by international organizations tasked with wild life conservation
and monitoring & fighting illegal ivory trade. Most recently, in the
December 2013 report "Status of African elephant populations and levels of
illegal killing and the illegal trade in ivory: A report to the African
Elephant Summit" by the International Union for Conservation of Nature,
African Elephant Specialist Group, they found that while elephant poaching
in Africa is on the increase, the trend is closely associated with increases
in consumer spending in China, the world's largest consumer of illegal
ivory. On the other hand, the relationship does not hold for ivory markets
in Europe, the USA or Japan, nor for countries know to be transit points in
the ivory trade chain (Malaysia, Philippines, Thailand or Viet Nam). When
further discussing trade routes for poached elephant ivory and showing maps
of those routes with estimates of illegal ivory transferred, the report does
not show any illegal trade involving the United States after 2008.
The United States is not contributing to elephant poaching in any meaningful
way because current laws in the U.S. are working. When the 1989 ban on
exporting and importing African ivory went into place, it allowed the
domestic trade of ivory that was already in the United States ("pre-ban
ivory") to continue. The export limitations discouraged big businesses from
using ivory in products, but small businesses have continued to make,
repair, embellish and trade pre ban ivory along with antique ivory. People
who dealt regularly with ivory were very aware of the regulatory structures,
as reflected the small number of seizures and tiny amounts of illegal ivory
confiscated in the United States in recent years from dealers or businesses.
Also, pricing confirms the stability of ivory trade in the United States.
Domestically, the cost of raw ivory has been around $250 per pound, whereas
in China, where illegal ivory flourishes, ivory can cost as much as $1500
per pound. Given the price discrepancy, it is obvious where illegal
poachers will peddle their ivory.
If not from poachers, where does raw ivory come from in the United States?
There are a variety of sources including a few dealers who carry documented
pre-ban ivory, museums with excess ivory in stock, estate sales of people
who collected ivory, and a small amount from people who legally hunt
elephants on safari with government permission from stable populations and
who fund conservation efforts in African countries. With the ample supply
of ivory already in the U.S., there simply has been no need to risk
smuggling illegal ivory. For this reason, the US has successfully isolated
its domestic market from illegal poaching.
Enormous Costs of Domestic Ivory Ban Outweigh Non-Existent Benefit
Notwithstanding the success the U.S. has had in keeping poached ivory out of
its domestic market, the regulations that USFWS are considering would kill
it.
There are well over 3000 small businesses in the United States that use,
embellish, repair, restore, or provide services involving ivory. Guitar and
banjo repair shops, piano restorers and movers, silversmiths, religious
product dealers, antique dealers, tool & knife makers, gunsmiths, engravers,
jewelers, art galleries, museums - all of these entities will be penalized
by denying them materials for their trade or products that they rely upon
and have nothing to do with elephant poaching in Africa. Galleries and
museums will not be able to charge admission to exhibits containing ivory.
Artisans and craftspeople who have dedicated their lives to ivory carving
will become obsolete or criminals, losing their livelihoods. And that is
just on the business side.
On the consumer side, millions of people who own items that contain ivory
will be severely limited with what they can do with it. Musicians will not
be able to repair or refurbish their instruments. Art collectors, from high
end Nitsuke collectors to people trading collectibles on eBay, will see the
value of their collections plummet to $0. People who lose family members
will have difficulty resolving estates. Cultural and religious items from
statues to rosary beads will become contraband. All of these items made
from ivory taken from elephants that died decades if not generations ago
will drop out of the legal stream of commerce without preventing a single
elephant from dying in Africa.
Worse than that, if regulations are adopted that require paperwork to prove
the age or pedigree of ivory when the government knows full well such
paperwork never existed because it was or is unnecessary to create under
then-existing or current law, people will disrespect the law. If antique
dealers and collectors need to prove items were imported through ports even
though the items came to this country before there were requirements to use
certain ports to import ivory, their cynicism with the government will be
well justified. If regulations are jammed through without giving the
law-abiding people they will punish adequate time to respond or due
consideration of their views, then the people's frustration and anger will
predictably erupt.
Recommendations
Instead of antagonizing law abiding citizens engaged in trade in the United
States, the government should focus its efforts where they belong - on
border enforcement and affecting demand in China. To the extent tourists
carry undocumented ivory across borders, the USFWS should follow its own
counsel from its 2012 Fact Sheet. To the extent the government believes
poaching to be an international crisis as stated in Executive Order 13648,
then the now well-known NSA data monitoring and spying efforts should be
shared with foreign governments to intercept trade routes, capture poachers,
and condemn Asian traders who unscrupulously deal in poached ivory. Those
are far more direct and effective ways of affecting illicit Chinese trade
and saving elephants' lives.
Domestic Ivory Ban Will Increase the Slaughter of Elephants
One final thought. Dr. Daniel Stiles, a world renowned expert on African
elephants and a prominent member of conservation organization, has recently
concluded that the initiatives under consideration in the United States will
dramatically increase elephant poaching instead of decreasing it. Crushing
the domestic market in the United States will make the legal supply of ivory
disappear. As ivory becomes rarer, prices will increase, giving poachers an
even greater incentive to kill elephants for their valuable tusks. It would
be catastrophic to destroy the lives of innocent artisans, ruin the finances
of legitimate businesses, deprive people of lifelong collections, and in the
process reward poachers for slaughtering elephants.
Very truly yours,
<YOUR SIGNATURE>
Mark Knapp
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2009
- Messages
- 4,421
I have sent a copy of my sample letter to Cade London of the USF&W service and received confirmation. It will be entered into the administrative record for the council meeting. It is important that we get as many letters as possible into that record.
After you send your letter, please post here so we can get an idea of how many are getting sent.
After you send your letter, please post here so we can get an idea of how many are getting sent.