No Frills Lighting
- Thread starter PhilL
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ceya one said:wowo PhilL good work maybe you can take pics of my knives.
CEYA, the idea of this thread was for you to learn how you can take pics of your knives.
I should mention that I'm not looking for photographic work nor am I looking to take work away from professional photographers. I think anyone can learn how to take good pictures, a few will be able to take a great picture, a professional has to take great pictures consistantly. That's the difference.
Photography is all about seeing and capturing light. Photographing knives requires a broad even light source, daylight is readily available and also the correct color. The pics that you see that are too yellow are all with hot lights, they all need to be color corrected. As important as the light source is learning to see what the camera sees. If it doesn't look good in the camera don't snap the shutter, find a better angle. Learn the focus range of your camera and stay in that range, it's easy to crop in closer later. Learn to take clean straight pics first before doing compositions with a lot of props or several pics. Walk before you run. Take lots of pictures, study each one and see what you did right and what you could do better. Then make each picture better than the last one. Finally when you find out what works for you stick with it.
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I still am trying to figure out how to take advantage of this camera's capabilities but for a second go, I think it shows that non-professional pics can still look good and show off a knife. (Also from a North-facing window, using one piece of paper to reduce shadow a bit, and this image is cropped and resized, but otherwise untouched, straight from the camera):
(I apologize for only photographing my LCC, it's the only knife I have that is really decent looking enough to photograph!)
With non-professional photos, it's easy to set the bar low, for a variety of reasons. I agree with guys like Phil and Murray and others that there really isn't much of an excuse to offer low grade pics when many common cameras out there provide ample quality pictures for web use.
The goal isn't to insult makers who do less-than-stellar photos, and it isn't to steer people away from professional photographers. It's all about encouragement and promoting confidence. We all want nice pics, and while Phil and others really do super-nice work, it's certainly not impossible for the average guy to take nice photos.
(I apologize for only photographing my LCC, it's the only knife I have that is really decent looking enough to photograph!)
With non-professional photos, it's easy to set the bar low, for a variety of reasons. I agree with guys like Phil and Murray and others that there really isn't much of an excuse to offer low grade pics when many common cameras out there provide ample quality pictures for web use.
The goal isn't to insult makers who do less-than-stellar photos, and it isn't to steer people away from professional photographers. It's all about encouragement and promoting confidence. We all want nice pics, and while Phil and others really do super-nice work, it's certainly not impossible for the average guy to take nice photos.
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The LCC I posted pics of was a fairly matte finish overall knife, so some of you may consider it to be pretty easy to photograph. I thought I would quickly set up my camera and take some pics of a much much more difficult knife, my Kershaw Rainbow Leek. Those of you who have experience with this knife know it is in a completely high-gloss finish.
Using the same approximate spot that I photographed my LCC in, I tried out the Leek. The big problem was the reflective surface picked up all sorts of things, and the hollow-ground blade would gather and reflect light from all different angles that I didn't want. After some careful positioning and again a piece of paper for shadow reduction, I snapped up a few OK pics of the Leek. Far from perfect, but for a down-and-dirty pic I think it looks OK. Makes me think I should have cleaned it more thoroughly
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~maro0049/leek2.jpg (link instead of img so I don't overwhelm the thread with my images)
If possible, let's get some more folks to post experimental shots, good shots, or even shots that didn't come out quite right for some unknown reason.
Using the same approximate spot that I photographed my LCC in, I tried out the Leek. The big problem was the reflective surface picked up all sorts of things, and the hollow-ground blade would gather and reflect light from all different angles that I didn't want. After some careful positioning and again a piece of paper for shadow reduction, I snapped up a few OK pics of the Leek. Far from perfect, but for a down-and-dirty pic I think it looks OK. Makes me think I should have cleaned it more thoroughly
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~maro0049/leek2.jpg (link instead of img so I don't overwhelm the thread with my images)
If possible, let's get some more folks to post experimental shots, good shots, or even shots that didn't come out quite right for some unknown reason.
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Robert Marotz said:
Well said Bob. I would like to add that we'd all prefer to look at good pictures of knives. So you could say I started this thread for purely selfish reasons.
Bob I think you certainly got the message of this thread and your application of it is terrific. You're just learning your camera and what it can do, so I think it's safe to say that the photos that you get from it can only keep getting better and better. Thanks for posting.
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This is a great thread and it reminds me of where I started. My first photos weren't nearly as good as many of the members who now know some of the basics. Phil was there as a mentor early on with tips and encouragement. If you can get even lighting across the blade, you are 90% there.
Poor photos do a disservice to a good knife and knifemaker. And, of course, the reverse applies even more so...
Stay on it.
Coop
Poor photos do a disservice to a good knife and knifemaker. And, of course, the reverse applies even more so...
Stay on it.
Coop
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Thanks for the compliments Phil! Though I think I'm doing okay, I'm always looking at the problems with my pics and it is good to get encouragement, especially from the guys who know their stuff.
I actually bought this camera mostly for scenic shots, landscapes, and general snapshot use. For those uses, I would love to use a very high-res SLR rig for a few (I think it would be wonderful if I could make just one or two high quality 16x20 prints) shots, and I'm sure a lot of bells and whistles would help make all of the camera-side elements a little easier to manipulate.
BUT, as I think we've been reiterating a few times through out this thread, crap-in, crap-out. Equipment is not a valid replacement for technique. Some of the big tips I keep in mind when taking photos are:
a) light. You need to experiment to arrange for good coverage, no unwanted reflections, no strongly cast colors from different types of light.
b) positioning. Having ample light doesn't mean you can place your subject any which way to get a perfect photo. I have found that I sometimes need to prop something underneath the knife to angle it, or I need to adjust the position of the knife to minimize shadow. Reflectors are great for helping reduce shadow intensity, but shadow position plays a role too.
These two can be helped a lot with a good light tent. Then you can use a variety of light sources with relatively good diffusal and plenty of coverage. Without a tent though, I think there's a lot of adjustments and moving things around to get a more ideal shot.
c) camera steadiness. Cameras can somewhat stabilize for the user so you can get fairly OK freehand shots, but ensuring a good steady base gives you so many more options and details are much easier to pick up. A good 2-megapixel camera on a tripod can produce better looking photos than a 6-megapixel camera in shaky hands.
d) practice. I think this is the most important thing. Some images just won't turn out great. Get a few extra shots in, see where your problems are, make little adjustments, and try again. A digital camera is wonderful in that if you have a good power supply and memory, you can just keep on taking photos until you're blue in the face. You're not wasting film, so why be conservative and restrained with your photo experiments?
I know there are many other "tips" one could post, but I'm posting from the amateur perspective, and I think these help fill in the gap between saying "I have a camera but I can't take pics" and "Wanna see this pic I just took today?" That is IMO the gap many of us are trying to cross
I actually bought this camera mostly for scenic shots, landscapes, and general snapshot use. For those uses, I would love to use a very high-res SLR rig for a few (I think it would be wonderful if I could make just one or two high quality 16x20 prints) shots, and I'm sure a lot of bells and whistles would help make all of the camera-side elements a little easier to manipulate.
BUT, as I think we've been reiterating a few times through out this thread, crap-in, crap-out. Equipment is not a valid replacement for technique. Some of the big tips I keep in mind when taking photos are:
a) light. You need to experiment to arrange for good coverage, no unwanted reflections, no strongly cast colors from different types of light.
b) positioning. Having ample light doesn't mean you can place your subject any which way to get a perfect photo. I have found that I sometimes need to prop something underneath the knife to angle it, or I need to adjust the position of the knife to minimize shadow. Reflectors are great for helping reduce shadow intensity, but shadow position plays a role too.
These two can be helped a lot with a good light tent. Then you can use a variety of light sources with relatively good diffusal and plenty of coverage. Without a tent though, I think there's a lot of adjustments and moving things around to get a more ideal shot.
c) camera steadiness. Cameras can somewhat stabilize for the user so you can get fairly OK freehand shots, but ensuring a good steady base gives you so many more options and details are much easier to pick up. A good 2-megapixel camera on a tripod can produce better looking photos than a 6-megapixel camera in shaky hands.
d) practice. I think this is the most important thing. Some images just won't turn out great. Get a few extra shots in, see where your problems are, make little adjustments, and try again. A digital camera is wonderful in that if you have a good power supply and memory, you can just keep on taking photos until you're blue in the face. You're not wasting film, so why be conservative and restrained with your photo experiments?
I know there are many other "tips" one could post, but I'm posting from the amateur perspective, and I think these help fill in the gap between saying "I have a camera but I can't take pics" and "Wanna see this pic I just took today?" That is IMO the gap many of us are trying to cross
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If anyone was curious...
Same camera, same window, hand-held, on highest resolution/quality, with some basic automatic settings for aperture, fstop, etc. This is more or less the "knife snapshot" that one can see many people doing.
There is ample light for a good photograph, the camera's abilities are not limited to this, but that's what came out. I wasn't trying hard to get a bad photo, and I even had the right tools at my disposal. I just didn't take advantage of those tools, and this is the result.
A little bit of experimentation will go a long way. Place the camera on a tripod, fiddle around with position just a little, and get an extra piece of paper in there to help with light distribution (and a helpful white balance adjustment), and you have:
I want to stress that this is still a snapshot though. I was doing this quickly for the sake of showing what some relatively minor adjustments can do. One can get much higher quality photos than this with a little more positioning and light distribution work, and a few manual settings, but if you are used to photos of the quality I showed at the beginning of this post, rest assured that there is still potential. It really does start with technique and setup, not just equipment.
Same camera, same window, hand-held, on highest resolution/quality, with some basic automatic settings for aperture, fstop, etc. This is more or less the "knife snapshot" that one can see many people doing.
There is ample light for a good photograph, the camera's abilities are not limited to this, but that's what came out. I wasn't trying hard to get a bad photo, and I even had the right tools at my disposal. I just didn't take advantage of those tools, and this is the result.
A little bit of experimentation will go a long way. Place the camera on a tripod, fiddle around with position just a little, and get an extra piece of paper in there to help with light distribution (and a helpful white balance adjustment), and you have:
I want to stress that this is still a snapshot though. I was doing this quickly for the sake of showing what some relatively minor adjustments can do. One can get much higher quality photos than this with a little more positioning and light distribution work, and a few manual settings, but if you are used to photos of the quality I showed at the beginning of this post, rest assured that there is still potential. It really does start with technique and setup, not just equipment.
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Seems to be a lot of viewers but not many people participating in this
I took this today:
Very bright, but I was sorta aiming for that. I took several and then realized that I set the ISO to 200 yesterday for an evening cityscape photograph, and forgot to turn it back to 50! For those of you who are not familiar with ISO ratings...a higher ISO helps with low-light photography, but the negative effect is that there is slightly more "noise" than at a lower ISO rating. In many cameras it's not a major issue, but detectable if you look hard at it. This one was taken after I set the ISO back to 50.
Kinda wish I had more knives to photograph!
Oh, and a photo of it closed:
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~maro0049/closed.jpg
THEN (Yes, another link...)
I decided to take one more photo of the spine-side and then assemble a small composition. Very simple, but looks clean enough to still look okay
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~maro0049/leekcomp3.jpg
FINALLY (I hope...)
As per someone's recommendation, I adjusted the clip on the little inset pic so that it doesn't blend with the background as much, and then slightly lowered the overall brightness just enough to make it a little less harsh on the eyes. I think I retained the vibrant colors well and I think this composition looks almost as good as those you see by some knife retailers.
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~maro0049/leekcomp4.jpg
I took this today:
Very bright, but I was sorta aiming for that. I took several and then realized that I set the ISO to 200 yesterday for an evening cityscape photograph, and forgot to turn it back to 50! For those of you who are not familiar with ISO ratings...a higher ISO helps with low-light photography, but the negative effect is that there is slightly more "noise" than at a lower ISO rating. In many cameras it's not a major issue, but detectable if you look hard at it. This one was taken after I set the ISO back to 50.
Kinda wish I had more knives to photograph!
Oh, and a photo of it closed:
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~maro0049/closed.jpg
THEN (Yes, another link...)
I decided to take one more photo of the spine-side and then assemble a small composition. Very simple, but looks clean enough to still look okay
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~maro0049/leekcomp3.jpg
FINALLY (I hope...)
As per someone's recommendation, I adjusted the clip on the little inset pic so that it doesn't blend with the background as much, and then slightly lowered the overall brightness just enough to make it a little less harsh on the eyes. I think I retained the vibrant colors well and I think this composition looks almost as good as those you see by some knife retailers.
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~maro0049/leekcomp4.jpg
Nordic Viking
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Robert Marotz said:Seems to be a lot of viewers but not many people participating in this
Hi guys,
Thanks for the tips. Here's my Fällkniven U2 taken on the porch table. Didn't have time to set it up properly (hence the dumb shadows).
HP Photosmart 935 / Macro / No Flash
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Nordic Viking said:
Woah woah woah NV, there's nothing wrong with a shadow, it helps show depth. In fact go back and look at my first pic, now it is an illustration where I added the shadows. How do you think it would look if I didn't add them?
I have always had a problem with tent lighting where the lighting is so flat there's no shadow.
Bob, once again I want to thank you for your input into this thread, but the fact is people will post if and when they want.
I'd like to make a suggestion to anyone reading this thread, if you can get anything out of this thread that will help you take better pics I'm happy. Secondly, if there's anyone that you see their pictures could benefit from reading this thread, just point them here. Without being insulting if possible. I'll do the insulting once they post here.
Bwahahahahaha
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Hi guys. . .good thread. I've taken a look at a few threads on knife photography here; it's a topic of interest to me as a photographer since my Dad makes knives.
I recently took some shots of some of his knives; here's one of my favorites:
The small size doesn't really do it justice though; here's a larger version: http://www.loneshepherd.com/speckled1b.jpg
I recently took some shots of some of his knives; here's one of my favorites:
The small size doesn't really do it justice though; here's a larger version: http://www.loneshepherd.com/speckled1b.jpg
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LS, first of all welcome to BFC and second thanks for posting your pic. I hope you don't mind some comments on it. Your father does really nice work and I think you have all the makings of a fine photographer, but I wonder about some of your choices. Your composition and choice of props do not compliment your subject. Your lighting and focus are very good, but I think with a minor adjustment you could get better coverage on the blade. I sure would like to see you try again.
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Thanks for the comment Phil. I'm still toying with ideas for backgrounds and props. Some people like the white, some don't; some people like the contrast with the old tools, some don't. I do however, quite like the gradiation of light on the blade.
Here are the rest of the shots from that "photo shoot": http://gallery.loneshepherd.com/Dad-knives
Most of those he made, a couple he didn't.
Here are the rest of the shots from that "photo shoot": http://gallery.loneshepherd.com/Dad-knives
Most of those he made, a couple he didn't.
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I finally found a place that sells mylar and made myself a light tent. Here's a couple of my first tries at it. I wasn't sure if it was a good idea or not but I added the rock in for aesthetics and to give me something to lean the knives against.
Gimme both barrels Phil, I can take it!
Gimme both barrels Phil, I can take it!
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LS, it looks like you put a lot of time and thought into your setup. Your focus and color balance are good. I don't think your composition or the angle that you're shooting at works at all. I think you need to come up and over the knives more to capture the profile of the whole knife better. Of course these are your pics and you may be getting exactly what you want.
Mikey, I have to admit I wanted you posting on this thread more than anyone else. I think these new pics are fine, but I have to ask you a question. Would you say these are the best knife pics you've ever taken? Or is that Bowie you showed be the other night still the best? And why?
Mikey, I have to admit I wanted you posting on this thread more than anyone else. I think these new pics are fine, but I have to ask you a question. Would you say these are the best knife pics you've ever taken? Or is that Bowie you showed be the other night still the best? And why?
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The bowie pic is the best cause the lighting is even over the entire knife. I took these around 5pm. The sun was a little low in the sky. I'll take some more tomorrow in the middle of the day when the sun is high and see how much difference it makes.
Thanks for puttin in all the time to help us all Phil!!!
Michael
Thanks for puttin in all the time to help us all Phil!!!
Michael
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Mike, I'm going to give you a hint, the reason the lighting was better on the bowie had nothing to do with the time of day. It's because the Bowie was laying down so the lighting covered the whole knife. Take the rock out, lay the knives down and find the best angle.
K. I. S. S.
K. I. S. S.