NY AG goes after knife makers & distributors

N

NFA

Joined
Jan 11, 2001
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219
From http://www.nealknox.com/

New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, who sued gun
manufacturers because criminals often misuse their products, has
begun civil procedures against knife makers and distributors who
offer to sell and ship prohibited knives to New Yorkers.

According to a knowledgeable source, knife sellers are proving
to be a lucrative source of revenue for the state. Most knife
makers and distributors are unaware that New York can file civil
actions against out-of-state distributors who sell or offer to sell
a state-prohibited knife -- including any dirk, dagger or doubled-
edged knife.
 
What the F#@%? you know that's F@#%ed up? i live in New York if he sue knifemaker and dealers and saying that selling knives is good. he can kiss my arse. not only is the business on the rock. the guy is a first class jack arse.

well that my opinion.
 
Originally posted by NFA
...has begun civil procedures against knife makers and distributors who offer to sell and ship prohibited knives to New Yorkers.

...against out-of-state distributors who sell or offer to sell
a state-prohibited knife -- including any dirk, dagger or doubled-
edged knife.
Click to expand...

So why is this news? These are not exactly new laws.

Firebat
 
Firebat...I love that avatar!

"yeeaaaah...so...why don't you go ahead and, aaahhh move your desk to the basement, Ok, greeeaaat"
 
That putrid piece of **** Spitzer is at it again?! Man, I'm so glad I moved out of that state. Friggin' dumbest state short of California or Massachusetts.

Spitzer is among those who want to make it prohibitively expensive to remain in business selling guns or knives. I think it should become prohibitively expensive for Spitzer to keep tires on his car and windows on his house. Just my opinion, don'tcha know.
 
Isn't there enough crime in New York to keep the Attorney General busy? I'm amazed that he even has time to worry about something like this.

Silly me, I should have realized it's all about money. There is no concern for the safety of the citizens of New York in the AG actions. Fighting real crime doesn't pay. Bilking legitimate businesses out of hard earned cash does.
 
Firstly, if I was in business selling anything that was heavily regulated, like weapons, I'd make darn sure I knew the laws in the jurisdiction. Why would the state not have the right to sue dealers who sell illegal items? Laws are laws.
 
If a certain knife is illegal in New York, and not too many are, then dealers should be held liable for breaking the law. Not that I'm after knife control in any way, but you have to look at the bigger picture. The AG can't just choose to ignore knife laws specifically, yet prosecute dealers for breaking similar laws regarding other items.

This is just logic here. Say that hand grenades are banned in New York, but legal in Idaho. I know this is somewhat over the fence, but follow the hypothetical anyway. And say that we New Yorkers actually prefer not to have people playing with hand grenades around here. We'd want Idaho dealers not to be selling hand grenades to New Yorkers. Could we go around prosecuting hand grenade resellers for breaking the law, but choose to ignore similar knife infractions? Sure we could. We'd be a bunch of two-faced SOBs, but we could do it. I'd rather see the law be carried out, whether the law is stupid or not. If the law turns out to be stupid enough, change it.

What I would like to see in New York is clear definitions of dirk and dagger. I’ve asked two different county Sheriff’s Offices about this, and both had their own interpretations. That’s not good.
 
Well stated. Also, what in the heck's the distinction between a dirk, dagger and stiletto??
 
So let me see if I have this correct....he is agressively attempting to prohibit, say Randall, from shipping a Bushmaster to NY because it's ground on two edges?

Mayfly
 
If a Bushmaster is ground on both edges, yep. That's a no-no in New York. It's kind of stupid, but we voted for the ones who made it a law. We're sinking in the boat we built for ourselves.
 
Buzzbait, after talking to my attorney a couple years ago after being threatened by some California municipalities, let me comment. New York laws apply to New Yorkers and companies that do business there, and that means companies that have employees and/or physical locations there. New York has no jurisdiction over companies or individuals in other states. It just doesn't.

If hand grenades were legal in Idaho but illegal in New York, it is New Yorkers who break New York law by having them shipped from Idaho, not the Idaho company. The company is breaking no Idaho or federal law and New York laws don't apply to him.

The attorney general could do 2 things. He could bring a lawsuit against the Idaho company (anybody can sue anybody) but he'd have to bring the lawsuit in an Idaho court since New York courts don't have jurisdiction over Idaho companies that have no location or employees in New York. Or he could lobby Congress to have a federal law enacted banning interstate shipment of hand grenades. As an example, there is a federal law banning interstate shipments of switchblades (is that a dirk?) except between dealers or to government agencies ordering with a purchase order. So it would be illegal for, say, an Arizona or Oregon (where switchblades are legal) dealer to ship a switchblade to a New Yorker. Not because switchblades are illegal in New York, but because a federal law prohibits interstate shipments and everybody is bound to abide by federal laws. In my case, it would be illegal for me to receive a switchblade from a manufacturer even though I am a dealer because it is illegal to do so here in Indiana. The manufacturer wouldn't break a law in his state or a federal law, but I would break an Indiana law and Indiana law does have jurisdiction over my company.

Imagine the mayhem if every citizen had to know and abide by the laws of every state. Luckily, you only need to abide by the laws of a "foreign" state when you are there physically as long as you don't break a federal law with the same action.
 
Originally posted by Buzzbait
If a Bushmaster is ground on both edges, yep. That's a no-no in New York. It's kind of stupid, but we voted for the ones who made it a law. We're sinking in the boat we built for ourselves.
Click to expand...

That's bullshit. We did not "vote for the ones who made it a law"; at least, not in the sense that we got what we bargained for, because chances are VERY slim that anyone who voted for this ******* ever came close to knowing this was how he'd be about knives. Puh-lease, Buzzbait. Don't pretend that we operate our legislators and AGs by remote control, and everything they do is something we asked for.

This guy Spitzer just wants to make points with the ultraliberal schmucks that inhabit New York (thank god I'm outta there!) and if this is the way he has to do it, he figures 'so be it.' There is nothing about safety involved in his actions. Nothing at all. Can someone trot out some specs about how many "daggers" etc. were involved in crime in NY for the recent decades? Enough to warrant some sort of blitz on the sellers of them? Um, why not the USERS? Besides, are daggers really that much nastier a thing to be killed with than single-edged blades?! Puh-LEASE! It's like the moron who gets spooked by how quickly your Kershaw torsion-knife opens! As if it's somehow more dangerous than any other knife once they're each opened!

Your hand grenade analogy is preposterous. Why not a "blue law" analogy? How about those places where it's illegal to go down on your wife? Just because it's a law that's on the books does not mean an AG MUST go after those who violate that law. Laws like those against sodomy are NOT ENFORCED, and rightly so. Any AG worth anything will weigh the benefits of going full-out against some behavior or practice, and if the benefits are few or tiny, even though it be law, he won't go nuts trying to enforce it. This is such a case.
 
Originally posted by NFA
Firebat, thank you for your intelligent and astute comment.
Click to expand...

Yeah, uh-huh. Don't patronize me.

Why are you so shocked that this or any attorney general would decide to act on existing laws? I don't understand your wonderment.

Are you upset that he actually brought action, or about the laws that allow him to do so?

The key word here is "prohibited". Most states have similar laws, and if an attorney general or any law enforcement official for that matter wants to enforce the laws as they exist, well, then I'd say they are doing their jobs. The matter of this guy having more important issues to deal with or being an otherwise unsavory character is completely irrelevant.

The way your post reads to me is that you advocate the sale and posession of knives that are- under the current law- illegal. Now I don't necessarily like the law myself, but that is an incredibly poor position for our like-minded community to uphold. Waging attacks at any AG for doing his/her job is ridiculous.

So basically, you want to speak up and say something to the effect of "This attorney general is a really bad guy. He wants to prosecute people that are doing illegal things." Sorry, that won't work. You don't like this? Then work to take away this guy's power to do so. Speak up to change the laws.

Otherwise, you have nothing to complain about. I do not think the AKTI would ever, ever, ever level personal attacks against law enforcement for doing their jobs. They might disagree with the law behind it, but they are not going to come off looking like mudslingers. You have got to maintain the mindset of a law abiding citizen, and as long as you choose to approach this topic with the attitude of "it's his fault" you'll never be taken seriously.

However, I can already see that the discussion is turning into a debate over definitions and specifications, so carry on. My two cents are present and accounted for.

Firebat
 
Easy there, peacefuljeffrey. Lets see some more of that peaceful!!!

I was simply pointing out that we’ve become complacent. Choosing to ignore a law, because you don’t agree with it, is not smart. Laws have come about for a reason, and that reason usually has to do with somebody’s strong opinion. You sited a rather obscure law, and seem to believe that ignoring it will make it go away. This is not the case. An old opinion can quickly become a new one. If you don’t agree with a particular law, work to have it repealed. Yelling at me will get you much less further than writing a letter to an applicable elected official. It will also make you feel better, knowing that you’ve done you’re part. Foolish laws have been repealed many times, and can be done again.

I hear you’re frustration, and feel the same way. Knife laws are also nonsense in my book. But I won’t spend my time preaching to the choir. I’ll spend my valuable time preaching to those who can end my frustration. And I will follow the law, no matter how foolish, as long as I’m bound to do so.


Knife Outlet - You've obviously done your research, and it sounds like the AG doesn't have a leg to stand on. But why do I feel like there's a big "BUT" somewhere here? This sounds too easy. I really hope it is that easy, but my crap detector is going off every time I think about the issue.
 
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