Off Topic, what should I get for CCW?

Yvsa

Yvsa

Joined
May 18, 1999
Messages
15,395
:
Okay guys.
Too start off with my most favorite pistol of all time is the old Walther P-38 9mm.
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Long story I won't get into right now.
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I have been considering for some time about getting a modern semi auto for CCW and I have _Now_ made up my mind to carry through with it.
I am also very ignorant of what's available in todays modern
market.
My cuz is the gun nut that likes knives and I am the Knife nut that likes guns and we have both focused on one area more than the other and I will get Orville's opinion as well.

I _Would_ like something, I believe about .40 cal.or 10mm.for the purists.
I have always been a fair shot and can still walk a can with my
Ruger Security Six .357 Mag.on single action.
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However it's just to big for an old fat man like me to try to conceal.
MY cuz is pretty high on the Sig Sauer(sp?) and I know it must be for good reason.
The reason I want and need an auto is because of Oklahoma's stupid CCW testing criteria.
If you go through the CCW School with a wheel gun, then that's all you're allowed to carry,Ever, However If you go through CCW School with an auto you can carry
Anything!!!
See where I am going with
this?
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That means I can also carry a concealed knife legally as well!!
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(I have always liked that "Dundee Rig"!
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)

So give me some ideas if you will as to what and why I should get the one you recommend.

(There is the HUGE Wanenmacher
G & K Show coming up in April if I don't get something before
then.
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)
Thanks!!!!

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>>>>---¥vsa---->®

Each person's work is always a portrait of himself.

---- Samuel Butler.

Khukuri FAQ
Himalayan Imports Website
 
My personal carry is a Glock Mod 27, which I load with Cor-Bon 135 grain jhp's.
The 40 cal is a good compromise between the velocity of the 9mm and the heavy-bullet wallop of the .45 ACP.
The Glock pistol is an "appliance." No where near the beauty and grace of John Browning's P-35 (Hi-Power)...but it is a very reliable pistol. It is low-maintenace and very compact. Also, there is no safety lever as such, so it can be fired in a stressful situation very quickly.
This is what I carry, and my reasons why.
I'm sure there will be a plethora of other options and opinions.


--Mike L.

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What goes around...comes around.
 
Yvsa,

I would love to help you but I'm not capable of being succint on this topic. I'm like your "cuz," I'm a gun person who also like knives. It's such a personal thing to pick a gun. What I think is the best you might not like at all the second you pick it up. Once you have an idea of some models you need to take a trip to Tulsa and actually pick some of these up. Usually people have immediate yes/no reactions at pick up. Once you have narrowed it down to two or three then we can really blow you away with detail!

I understand about the CCW requirement and the need to qualify with a semi-auto. You should at least consider getting a "full size" auto for the class and then perhaps using something else for actual carry. For instance, I'm a big fan of the S&W 640. It is a stainless steel modern recreation of the Centennial pocket pistol, without the clunky grip safety and in .357 Magnum. I usually have mine somewhere near at hand loaded with Federal 125 gr. HP's. That's going to have better stopping power than any of the common auto cartridges and I still have a soft spot for revolvers. I trust them more day in and day out. A little pocket lint or a dud cartridge? They don't care, they just shoot. And I love the 640's little "humpback" which comepletely encloses the hammer and makes the gun Double Action Only (DAO). It is a very easy gun to shoot and you can of course use .38 Specials in it as well (the NYC "undercover" load of 158 gr Lead Hollowpoint (LHP) in Nyclad and loaded +P is a great little round). I always feel better recommending revolvers to people who don't shoot all that much. In my opinion, far too many people are walking around with auto's who would be better served (and safer) with revolvers. The auto should be the professional's gun.

What do I like in semi-auto? I shoot and carry my Glock 17 (9mm) more than anything else. It is a flat light package with no sharp edges. I pull it out and aim it at a passing chicken's head. Boom, gun cycles, chicken dies. No fuss. Chicken for dinner tonight. It is Mr. Reliable. Standard (pre-ban) magazines hold 17 rounds. I have some with the little +2 extension. That gives me 19 rounds in the mag and 1 in the chamber. I don't usually even bother to carry a spare mag (maybe in the car). And I like 9mm for personal carry. You just need to use good ammo. 9mm got a bad reputation early in the last century due to Full Metal Jacket (FMJ) ammunition. It usually just drilled right through somebody and kept going. Then some police departments in the US adopted it and then went with super lightweight hollow points. These didn't penetrate enough. Something in the middle is called for. I'm partial to Federal's 115 gr. HP (9BP) in standard pressure and Cor-Bon's 124 gr. HP in +P. I'm not a fan of the 147 gr. 9mm ammo.

There are a lot of other Glocks. The 19 is a smaller version of the 17. The 22 is the full size .40. The 23 is the medium size. Glock does make some CCW specials, the "micro Glocks." The 26 is 9mm. The 27 is .40. The hot (and hard to find) Glock right now is the small single column .45, the Glock 36. The little Glocks have to be picked up to be believed but some people just don't "like the feel" of them. ****Read and remember this **** I'm a Glock lover, no doubt. But you MUST be careful with them. They are kind of like a revolver, they have a long trigger pull and no safety. Any holster arrangement MUST cover the whole trigger area. Special care should be taken when inserting a loaded Glock into a holster.

Sig makes some great guns. No doubt there. Supply and demand keeps price up too high for me, at least so far. I like the ones I've fired that belonged to others.

Indulge me for one more minute. You could always get the gun I've wanted for over a decade but never have managed to buy. You would have to go 9mm (there is a .40 version but don't do it). In my opinion, the absolute safest handgun you can carry is a H&K P7 M8. It has a "cocking lever" on the front of the grip that has to be squeezed and held in order for it to fire. It's a gun you have to pick up and fire to truly appreciate. I usually see one or two at each Tulsa gun show. There is at least one online place I know that is selling some "refurbished" ones that look good for $630.

You can use this page to look at different models. http://www.galleryofguns.com/ Click on Power Search and then Continue.

Gregg
 
:
Thanks Mike and Gregg.
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Gregg that's what I had in mind after getting some suggestions from y'all, checking them out in person.
To give y'all a bit of background on myself and Barb....

We have a couple of the little Jenning's .22's and Barb's works fine. It has never caused any trouble, but mine has many of the problems you mentioned Gregg and I know I can't depend on it.
Barb and me both took the little guns out with my cuz and we both passed his approval on consistently hitting the targets at several different distances. With the Hyper Velocity ammo they aren't too bad, but I want something I Know is gonna do the job right. When shooting in self defense I would never shoot to wound.
And I grew up on autos and am very comfortable with them.
And yet I do like the wheel guns and that's why I bought my Ruger. I do know they're more dependable in all cases.
On another note... You should see Barb shooting the Mossberg 500 12Ga. John Wayne style from the hip!!! Scary!!! Blows the hell out of whatever she's shooting at.
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I am only gonna be able to do this once so I have to "get it right" the 1st.time so I can't afford to get a Full Sized model and then not use it for carry.
Now that Barb's retired we are truly on a fixed income now so I am gonna have to spend the money wisely.
All suggestions will be taken to heart and each considered very carefully so that we will make the "right" choice.
It took me about 2 years to come to this decision and I don't want to get in a hurry now.
I carry the Ruger now when needed, but that's mostly on road trips and in the country where most people aren't gonna pay much attention to it.

I know I get long winded, but that may help explain a bit more about us and both of us growing up and being very comfortable around guns.

I "Knew" Barb was"Okay" when she told me she had a 30-30 Scoped Winchester for deer hunting.
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>>>>---¥vsa---->®

Each person's work is always a portrait of himself.

---- Samuel Butler.

Khukuri FAQ
Himalayan Imports Website
 
Yvsa,

If you really love the P-38, you should get a modern DA/SA pistol that comes to close in manual of arms.

The Beretta 92/96 series is pretty close in operation to the p-38, except it does away with the "heel" mag release. Otherwise all of the other controls are in the same place, and it even uses the Walther style tilting barrel lock-up.

Very, very fine handguns, not my first choice(I am 1911 guy), but I am not a P-38 fan either
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For CCW, there is a Compact Beretta 92/96 that would probably suit you just fine.
Excellent craftsmanship, utter reliablity.
Fairly large grip frame, but easily available high capacity magazines too (in 9mm).

Enjoy making your decision, its a fun one!

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"The most effective armor is to keep out of range"-Italian proverb
 
Yvsa,
Love the HK P7,but my carry gun is a HK K3(.380cal), same features as a P7, downside of HK $$$$. Vince can give you info on GLOCK,
I SWEAR, I THINK HE SLEEPS WITH IT!He can do amazing things with that GLOCK! or ASK BLUES
(HAVEN'T HEARD FROM HIM,HOPE HE'S ALRIGHT)!
jim

 
Yvsa,

I usually carry an HK USP in .45. I don't know if you noticed, but at the Reno convention, I had it concealed. I also carry a Glock 35 (.40 cal ) as a back up. I think a Glock 23 in .40 or the Glock 32 (.357 Sig, same size as the 23) would be good concealment guns. I have been doing alot of testing with the .357 Sig round, and it really impreses me. Also, the new Glock 36 or the Glock 30 (both compact .45 ACP) are reall good. Small, but also very accurate.

I like the Glocks, because they are the only handguns that I have tried that can with stand the amount of shooting that I do. My first Glock 17 has over 70,000 rounds of high intensity +P+ rounds through it so far.

Also, one thing to consider is the size of the weapon. Many would say that my choice for an off duty gun is too big, but for me it works. My old off duty gun was a Glock 24, this puppy has a 6" barrel! Even in the summer time, my HK USP conceals easily under a t-shirt. I would check out many designs to see which best fits you.

Hope this helps, if not feel free to e-mail me.

[This message has been edited by Broken Arrow (edited 11-22-2000).]
 
Guns are my specialty. I carry one for a living and have one within arms reach 24 hrs a day about 98% of the time. I am definitely a gun guy who's into knives. I am also an instructor.

It's very hard to recommend a gun to someone. One's choice of weaponry is a very personal thing. Personally, I am a Glock fan. I like the way they feel and shoot and have complete confidence in them. I have my G17 that I carried on duty in the city. I have shot the he!@ out of it and it just begs for more. It's a bit big for concealed carry though. I usually carry a G26 now. It was my back up and off duty gun in the city and I can find no compelling reason to switch calibers now. The 9mm is a fine round IF you use the proper ammo. If you follow the cardinal rules of gun safety the lack of external safeties on Glocks becomes a non issue.
I have been impressed with the compact line of guns from Kahr. They are more slender than the Glocks and have more of a double action type trigger pull as opposed to the Glock's 2 stage type Safe Action. Kahr's newest polymer frame compact (can't remember the model name) is VERY nice. Very light and concealable. My wife wants one! Kahr has a good reputation and make a quality weapon.
If you fancy something with a safety Taurus's line of Millenium autos appear very nice. Especially their newest titanium versions. I do not like their triggers though! Very creepy and gritty.
SIGs are great guns. I currently carry a 226 as a duty weapon. Very reliable and accurate but too big for CCW.
I highly recommend that you find a range that rents guns and try out a bunch of them. See what feels good to you and what you are comfortable with. Don't compromise because of cost. If you buy a compromise gun it's more likely to be in the safe when you need it.
This really is my specialty so if you have any questions or need any help feel free to email me personally.
 
I guess it's because of having grown up using revolvers, and having done a whole lot of shooting with them through the years, but my CCW is an ol' snub-nosed, five-shot .38 Chief's Special in which I carry Plus P hollow points.

I'm one of the very few guys in the Sheriff's office (who works in uniform patrol) who still carries a revolver (S&W .357) as his duty weapon. The dept. went to semi-autos but allowed old-timers to stay with the wheelguns if they wanted to. At the age of 55 I still outshoot nearly all the youngsters, many of whom do little shooting beyond the twice-a-year qualifying. I don't do as much shooting as I used to, but until the last couple of years I probably averaged around 150-250 rounds per week (handloading and shooting were among my passions). My hobby guns were single-action Rugers -- .357s, 44s (specials and mags), and .45 LCs -- and a couple of S&W double action 44 mags.

For many years, my hunting weapons were a single-shot .22 rifle and a single shot .410 shotgun. I consistently brought home more game than the other hunters, most of whom had autos and pumps. Because of being a poor kid and unable to afford much ammo, I learned early on as a hunter to stay calm, be patient, and make every shot count. I even hunted quail with my single-shot 22. I'd flush a covey, and watch for the birds that landed in the low brances of the small scrub pines then proceed to pick them off.
 
Hello, Guns are my thing
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, being a gunmaker for years and a carry person,
I must go along with Mikes suggestion
a glock .40 would be the best in my humble
opinion. for a auto gun to carry. However
I carry a custom Colt .45 called a Comp-Carry
model, a .40 or .45 only takes one shot.
Glocks are very light and a comfort to carry.
My picks would be the Glock 36 or 30 as well.
Happy Holidays everyone ! Jerry
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Toys are very important
at any age !
Greetings from the GunMan

[This message has been edited by GunMaker (edited 11-22-2000).]

[This message has been edited by GunMaker (edited 11-22-2000).]
 
I say go with the Kahr , I have a K9 and it is the BEST carry pistol I've ever had . It shoots like a ful size pistol and carries like a pocket pistol . I've got a GLOCK 23 , a Colt detective special ,a Charter Arms Bulldog .44 special , and the Kahr K9 , the Kahr is by far the best for everyday carry .
 
I love the Kahr K9 as well. It is small enough to conceal very neatly. The ergonomics are great, it is one of only two 9mm semi-autos I've found that fit my (admittedly very small) hands comfortably, the other being the BHP.
 
I am a pistol traditionalist so I respect your liking for the P-38. A couple of years ago I needed a sidearm and decided to look with an open mind instead of just staying in my comfort zone with a 1911A1. I ended up with a full size Glock in .40 cal because I live in Ohio where we don't have CCW unless you are a sworn peace officer.

If I had a CCW I would buy a Glock model 23 in .40 S&W. You can get them new or factory refurbished for a fair price and they are hard to beat. If you get one, spend the extra money for the night sights!
 
Glock in 9 mm. I would suggest a lightweight and compact version so that you can carry it easily. The Glock in .40 might be O.K. too. Threre were a few reports of slide failures with the .40 or 10 mm Glocks.

I'm from Canada so I don't have much experience with handguns.

Will
 
It's your choice, so go with what you feel comfortable with. Just cause I'm uncomfortable with the "is that a gun below your belt buckle or are you just glad to see me?" type carry ( think a while on what could go wrong...) it's still your body parts.

My dad once had a Beretta 34/35 that vastly impressed me as a 13 year old. My best friend had to have 007's PPk. Some guns just tap into something inside us. Speaking of 007, it just struck me that I can't remember a single instance in all the 007 movies where with all the (nearly) bare bosoms, and all the hot flying brass, oh, never mind...

You might try checking into the ccw database website at http://www.packing.org .

Or surf over to the Oklahoma state rifle club's site at: http://www.okrifle.org .

Tulsa probably has an indoor range that rents pistols and has a ccw certification program to boot. So why not go down, take a class, and rent a spray and pray eargesplitten loudenboomer to hose the range down with? Or get your cuz to lend you a jammamatic? You might even hit something if you aim real good before you close your eyes and jerk the trigger. That way you can keep your pistol(s) unregistered.
 
Try to find an indoor range that has guns for rent or to try-out, and shoot some or all of them you can. If you can get used the feel of the Glock, it's probably the simplest and safest carry gun. I'm a Glock 30 man , myself.

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Ida-Al
 
Yvsa:
Autos are really popular nowadays...that's why they are so pricey. So many shooters now seem to feel the need for massive firepower. I know one guy, otherwise sane, who carries a .45 full size with a Commander backup, and five spare magazines. He's ready for WWIII to break out any time.
If all you want is a nice little carry gun to qualify with at a minimum price, the Bulgarian or East German Makarov in .380 or 9x18 (midway between the .380 and 9mm Luger in power) can be had for about $200, and is widely held to be a quality piece.
I carried an S&W Model 60 for many years, until Kahr sent me some of their guns to test. The K9, which I kept, is the smoothest DA auto I've fired, very high quality and hell for stout. It comes in .40 S&W caliber too, as the K40. But like I said, pricey, unless you bought it for cost, as I was fortunate to do. Worth it, I guess, for the extra two rounds of plus-P 9mm HP vs. the five of a J-frame Smith.
Seems like you could qualify with the Mak and then carry that very nice Security Six of yours in an IWB or high ride hip holster of good quality...and have the best of both worlds. It's not too big to be concealable, with the right leather. The Mak would make a nice purse gun for Barb, then!
Lots of cops like Glocks, Sigs and H&K guns...I just never could get used to the idea of a gun made of plastic or folded sheet metal. Seems like for the price, you should get real forged steel...but that's just my prejudice.
If I carried professionally, which hasn't been an issue for me since my military service, I'd still opt for the full-sized 19ll. I still could, since I have a nice Safariland paddle rig for my Colt National Match...but haven't carried it concealed for years.

Ken

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The sword cannot cut itself, the eye cannot see itself.

[This message has been edited by gunhou (edited 11-22-2000).]
 
One thing that knives and guns have in common is they seldom become obsolete. Something more fashionable may come along, a different style, something that does a better job or does the same job for less money. But the old fashioned knife or gun is still every bit as effective ( or more so ) than it was over a hundred years ago.

I have a 45 SAA. It's been proven, and occasionally failed, for 127+ years. With hi-tech bullets I'd feel about as well armed as with a Glock. The single action has the ability ( well loaded ) to put down 5 assailants permanently if I'm up to the task!

[This message has been edited by Rusty (edited 11-22-2000).]
 
Yep, my vote is for a Glock. I've carried them all. Started with a Glock 22, great piece just a hair too big. Went to a Glock 27, absolutely great to carry but my second and third shot off the draw were going where I didn't want them to.

So I compromised; traded the 27 for a 23 and so far the best of both worlds. Been carrying that for the last 4 years. And that's every day too.

If that doesn't work I still say you can't beat a wheel gun. The S&W 640 series is a great pocket rocket. DA only tho. If I don't carry the Glock I carry a Smith.

The best advice I can give is to practice a LOT with whatever you end up with. The more the better and keep up regular practice with it too.

And the best part; Enjoy It!

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Vince

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Stay sharp and be Safe!
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That which does not kill us only makes us stronger.
F.W. Nietzche
 
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