Oh no! Not ANOTHER knife...

Lorien

Nose to the Grindstone
Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
26,564
I've been counting down my posts since about the 4 1/2K mark. I know it's stupid to care, but to me, my involvement in Bladeforums and this one in particular, has become a really important facet of my life. Due mainly to the personal interactions I've had which have lead to deeper understanding of myself, and others, and also to my education regarding cutlery.

Five thousand posts in just about 5 years? Somewhere around 3 posts per day? Holy shit, am I a geek or what? It's ironic, because I've always had disdain for computers. I'd rather be out mountain biking or building trails or whatever. But, I'm married and have a six year old. Bladeforums helped me to stay sane during the transition from adrenalin addicted grease monkey to responsible business owner and family man. Helped me keep focused on something neat, while, (unbeknownst to me) I matured and became a full fledged MAN.

At any rate, I was hoping to make my fifth thousand post on December 5, which was the date when I joined Bladeforums. But, alas, I cannot keep my damn trap shut that long and must spoil the numerical perfection of that anniversary. Oh well, it needs to happen now. I often take a fatalistic approach, without actually feeling like a marionette. It's a gift:)

A big watershed moment for me on this forum occurred during the chaotic development of this thread;
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=632009
I guess you could say that this thread is its' sequel.

With just over 25 000 views, (any numerologists out there?) that thread opened a BIG door for me, and maybe one or two other guys, (who've told me as much). Up til that point, the idea of building a knife was a pretty foreign concept. I hadn't ever really considered the possibility of my building a knife, and when I started the thread I had no idea what was going to happen.

The result, was an introduction into a community of knife makers, and my first two knives, which I built all by myself. Now it must be stated clearly that Nick Wheeler was the man responsible for this mischief, as he sent me that huge file and a chunk of 1084, and also worked his heat treating magic on the steel resulting in some very dependable and worthy knives. If I do say so myself. But, I did receive plenty of excellent advice and encouragement along the way and that is something that really kept me going. I'd really encourage you all to check out that thread, there are some real gems in there.

Well, since then I've received two blanks, one from Nick and the other from Ray Richard. Nick's is done, and living a new life not too far from here. Ray's, well that's another story. It's a complicated blank, as are my plans for it. But I am steadily and slowly working on it. I must say that most of the work occurring with it is happening in my brain currently. I have another project underway, and that is what this thread is really about.

Those of you who know me a little bit, know that I spend a lot of time in the rainforest. I own and operate a tiny company called Trailworks, which is a one man show, (except for bigger contracts where I'll hire on a crew) and I use large chopsnick knives a lot of the time. All of the time. I also do a lot of 'volunteer' trail building and maintenance, (and I don't keep track of those hours). While I'm out there, chopsnicking, I think a lot about the tool I'm using. Maybe 'thinking' isn't the right word. It's like muscle memory development. There are synapses firing, but they don't all reside in my brain, if you can dig it.

I have some great forged blades for this work, made by; Shosui Takeda, Matt Lamey, Chris Moss, Tai Goo, Jason Knight and Tad Lynch. I partially designed two of them, and Tad Lynch made me the MOB exactly to my specifications. Not to mention the knife I made, which I use quite a lot. So, I have lots of knives, and they're all carbon steel, and I love em and they all work like a hot damn.

But I'm a sucker for technology. I LOVE super steel! When I see a steel with almost 1.5% carbon, 14% chromium, 4% vanadium and 2% molybdenum I pretty much cream my jeans. Well, it's not that bad, but c'mon! Look at the amount of all those amazing elements! S30V- hard to beat, and I can leave a knife made from the stuff in its sheath wet without staying awake at night, knowing that the edge won't corrode much and will retain the keen-ness that I require of my cutting tools.

So, this is a WIP thread- a stock removal made knife, made with files and a vise, from S30V, with a +/- 10" blade, a copper guard and a mortised cherry handle. It's based on my own personal experience using a knife in a forest for the sole purpose of clearing trails, with minimal upkeep.

Sorry guys. This one's gonna take awhile:D. But don't worry, I've gotten a lot further than just drawing a picture...

I'll start the pictures now. The design for this knife occurred over an unspecified period of time, with constant refining occurring throughout.
I have to give a huge thanks to both Lin Rhea and to Jerry Fisk for helping me to dial in this pattern and in advising me in how to go about making it.

And, here it is;

IMG_4284-2.jpg


I hope that you will enjoy the unfolding of this thread. I also am aiming here to put a positive out there, which might for a moment, dispel some of the dark thoughts arising out of the current date of September 11th, and the tragic anniversary that that date marks. I hope that all of you will come together, and have a little laugh at my expense.

Please stay tuned.
 
Nice 5k post Lorien. S30V with hand files on a 10" blade... I would think we're in for a long thread. :p

I can certainly see Mr. Rhea's influence here. It's a fine design and I think this will be a real nice one.

Really looking forward to seeing you progress on this. If you ever get tired of the files and want to "cheat" a little, you're welcome to come out and use my grinder. :)
 
Lorien,
Congratulations on the post, a worthy one for the milestone. I appreciate the kind words too, but you are the one doing the sweating and cussing to get this knife made and by the time you get that steel worked into shape you'll be needing some kudos yourself:D Lin
 
S30V definitely has superior rust resistance..... a lot of people don't like it in a big knife though, for some reason. Something to do with lateral strength I think.

I'm very interested to see what your experience is with it.

Oh, and congrats on your 5K. Now, get a life! :D
 
congrats on your 5000 th post and you are a very worthy part of this forum and I for one am very pleased you are around.

looks like a great project

sorry I missed your call the other day will try and get back at you today
 
I think, Lorien, that you turned into a KNIFEMAN long before
your 5,000th post... :)

Your 5,000th-post commemorative knife will truly
be something to talk about for a long time!!

All the best,
David Darom (ddd)

p.s. Now all that is missing in your resumé is a visit to
the BLADE Show...
 
Nice 5k post Lorien. S30V with hand files on a 10" blade... I would think we're in for a long thread. :p

Lorien, you may beat your thread length record! ;) Look forward to this. Like to see all the practical use go into design.

By the way, what is your take on Takeda's 'super steel' after some use?

- Joe
 
Lorien way to go 5000 Th post are sure you have a job:eek: I am looking forward to meeting this coming week. and if you can you should bring your project with you as I do think there will be some time to play after the class each day. see you soon.
 
Lorien, That knife looks like it will be pretty sweet, Have fun with it.
 
Stuart, thank you very much for that kind offer. I have a goal, though, and it's gonna keep me away from power tools for some time unfortunately.

See, my goal here is to fill this bucket;

IMG_4285.jpg


Once the bucket is full, I will move on to power tools:)

Ouch.

Lin, thank YOU! This process has been surprisingly cuss free so far, although there has definitely been some sweat poured forth. Like Harry Matthew told me once, building a knife in this way means I might take so long to make a mistake that I'll be able to correct it before the cussin really starts!

Buffalohump- fortunately I don't care what a lot of people think. I work in retail and have a firm grasp of the fact that many people are either full of shit or are selective in what they choose to believe in. Thanks for the props, I'll let you all know how this steel performs- up until the 1/4" thick blade breaks in half, that is:p

Joe- you are a man of few typed words, but those words are always heavy hitting. Thank you bro! It means a lot to me that you'd say that. I'm looking forward to a chat soon.

David- STOP PUSHING ME!:D Knifeman, eh? Well hell, that's quite a compliment my friend. I DO hope to see you at Blade next year- I AM working toward it.

Joe- what makes this thread different from the previous one is that I have a design and a lot more knowledge. I don't think this one will take a year or whatever:). Takeda's use of white steel in one of the reasons I bought the knife and all I can tell you is that I have yet to be disappointed. It is truly amazing stuff- takes an edge really easy with ceramics and keeps it for a REALLY long time. Very, very impressed with the knife, and it's the one I've had longest.

Dave- I was hoping to bring it down with me so I could file the guard shoulders in with your guide. I'm bound and determined to do this knife all by myself, but if there's a little extra time to make a tiny forged knife or other metallic object, (my wife's birthday is coming up...) I'd be completely stoked! If not, I'll still be stoked. I can't wait!!!

Mark- Thank you very much sir, I will certainly have fun with this. That's why I'm doing it! And I also have to say that the knives you're making are blowing my mind. They're so out there, I'm usually not sure what to say about them, other than 'holy crap man!' and that ain't much of an addition to your threads, so I mainly just keep my trap shut:).
 
I would have spent this rainy day working on the knife, but I did this instead;

IMG_7477.jpg


If I don't pass out, maybe I'll get a little work done tonight.
I want to get the ricasso cleaned up because apparently I don't not want to file in the shoulders after I harden the blade. If I minimize the amount of finish work now, then I stand less chance of rounding over the shoulders later, after it's hardened, when I start rubbing the shininess into the steel.
 
Love the drawing and looks like it'll be a keen user. Hopefully we're all still around when this one gets finished up... :D :thumbup:
 
thanks Redsnake! I hope you're right:D

Jon, my buddy Russ took that shot. That was the same step down gapper that I broke my toe on on Father's Day:rolleyes: For now, it is my bitch.

When you're looking at a 14"x2"x1/4" chunk of S30V which isn't precision ground, the process of getting it sort of flat is a daunting thought. But I am not one to be daunted!

Before I can find my centers, I have to get er all nice and flat. For this, I used a big file and a lot of elbow grease.

IMG_4093.jpg


I like this picture. I thought I had taken a couple of the whole bar, and I would have posted them, but that's pretty boring stuff. So here is a nice steel sunrise:)

I first removed the scale by soaking the steel in white vinegar for a couple of days, and then washed it with dish soap.
 
Lorien,
This looks like a great project! I am excited to see how it comes out for you. I have made several choppers in the 8-14" blade range out of S30V and they work GREAT. My own personal chopper is S30V in 5/32" thick with a 10-1/2" blade edge and the best part is that after a day of chopping branches you still have a shaving sharp edge. S30V is more than tough enough for chopping but do be very careful on your heat treat. From my experience and discussions with Paul Bos the problems and the rumours on the S30V stem from one of three things generally, first, some early batches (years ago) had some partical distribution problems or second, from makers trying to push the hardness to over 60 HRC or third poor heat treat.

Good luck!! Oh and congrats on the 5000 posts!

Eric
 
hey thanks Eric!

I've read people gripe about s30v chipping out, and based on the elemental make up of the material, the only reason I can see for that is over hardening or inaccurate tempering, (not that I know anything much about heat treating, other than what I've read).
I have a couple blades, (folders) made from s30v and their edge retention and ease of resharpening is noticeably better than any knife I have made from any other material. Other ones are either really hard and keep a keen edge, but are hard to resharpen, or a little soft but easy to resharpen- they just need it a lot, which leads to fatter edge geometry pretty quick.

I've been in touch with Paul Bos via email, and he's a pleasant fellow who answered all my questions promptly and succinctly. Here is part of one of his messages to me;

Lorien: S-30-V will be hardened @ 1975 deg. f., Cryoed @ -280 deg. f, and tempered twice @ 500 deg.f. the cost would be $17.00 for the one blade, $5.00 handling , plus ret. post. the R/C-hardness will be about 58.5 to 59.5. You can e-mail Paul Farner @ pfarner@buckknives.com. Thank You . Paul Bos.

I think a lot of guys shy away from this material, and others like it, because it is expensive, (my slab cost about $40 if I recall correctly) and for the home heat treater, it's a little complicated and requires some precision. So, you have to factor in the additional cost of heat treating if you want the maximum out of the steel, (but, why even use the fancy stuff if you're willing to settle for mediocre heat treat?).

With all that vanadium and molybdenum, how could the stuff be anything but tuff?:)

Eric, if you care to post a pic of your blade in this thread, you are welcome to do so:thumbup:
 
Lorien,


Looking forward to seeing this one completed. Love the design but have to be a bit nit-picky and would want to get rid of the point on the inside of the finger guard. That's an admirable goal of wanting to fill that bucket before moving on to power tools, will give you ample time to learn the ins and outs, but what's with all that lint in there? You'll have to pick it all out to "really" fill the bucket... :D
 
thank you very much Jose:).

We'll see what happens with the guard. Mentally, I'm still on the blade. However, I plan on leaving no sharp edges anywhere except the edge, so although it looks pointy it will be rounded over. Part of the reason i designed it that way is it's less 'hook-like' and won't snag on the sheath or clothing or whatever. At least, that was my intention.

The best thing about designing a knife on paper, is that it's easy to reconceptualize the knife as it becomes a physical object. That's where the mystery in this thread will lie. We'll see how accurate the finished product is in relation to the drawring.
 
Lorien congrats on the 5000 post mark!!!

Drawing looks like a good concept, and your choice of material is great. S30V is what got me looking at stainless steels again.

Using the file to flatten your stock reminds me of tech school days. Lotta work but surprisingly good results.

All the work will have you appreciating the final result even more.
 
Lorien,
Sounds like you are all lined up with the best in the business. From my experience Paul Bos is truly a stellar individual and Paul Farner has been great to work with too. Recently I have been discussing with Farner about some Elmax I am including with my next batch and he has been very helpful.

Not really sure how the single blade pricing works as I always send a batch but you might check, generally there is an additional charge for blades over 10" and they count the full length but it will still only be a few bucks additional.

I am with you on the steel composition, with a good heat treat the S30V can take a good edge without taking all day and keep it. Who wants to sharpen your knife in a down pour in the field. Especially in the Pacific Northwest...or anywhere it really rains. As far as the cost...well it is powder metal and like you said it has all that Vanadium, quality just cost more.

Here is my favorite chopper, I had this at The Gathering.

picture.php


All the best,
Eric
 
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