On Strike

Rocinante said:
The thread is about a strike. I didn't start the thread, but I did respond to anti-Union statements.

Agreement? Not too many things here that we all agree on, but a forum is a place to put forth your views and respond to others' views.

Politics have been a part of strikes for a long, long time. It used to be that the Democrats fought for the workers and the Republicans tried to exploit and oppress the workers.

Nowadays......I'm not sure that the workers have more than a few real friends.....even in the Democratic Party.

I don't have the perfect answer. But I DO know who the enemy is.

And the enemy doesn't like the facts.

BTW.....telling me to stop writing is not appropriate and has never worked before......do you think it will work this time?

:)
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Yes, you have the right to express your opinion in the forum. But please, update your information. You sound like you are stuck in the 50s. There are more fat cats in unions than you care to think about, and all they care is about collecting dues, and not the welfare of the employees. if they really were to protect the employees, then companies would not be allowed to deteriorate to the level that they have. there are smart unions that look at the working conditions and development and training of employees, and there are the one still stuck in the dark ages, still looking to get more money for working less, while salaried employees pick up the slack and work ungodly hours. Sure they could also join unions, but if everyone gets paid more and work less, what happens to the company? You just killed the goose.
The laws are all in favor of the unions.....not the employees. For example, there is very little employees can do if the union is not representing them well. You can only decertify a union during a 30 day period, 30-60 days before the contract expires. In New York State you MUST pay dues, while in some other states you may elect to NOT pay dues if you are dissatisfied with the union. I guess in NYS you MAY elect NOT to be represented by the union in a union company, if dissatisfied, but you MUST pay dues anyway. Unions can bad mouth management at any point in time, but if management says something negative about the union they get sued through the NLRB for unfair labor practices. And then you wonder why companies go to China. Those people are GRATEFUL that they have a job, because they know it's not an entitlement. A company is not like Social Security. It has to earn the money it pays the employees. Smart unions have helped companies make more money, and then shared the gains, working together. But they work to keep the company alive. Unions stuck in the fifties go on strike, and kill the company. But if the worker loses his job, the union won't give him one. If the company goes out of business, the union will not hire the employees displaced. I have seen smart unions, and they are great, straighforward, helpful, and progressive. And then there is the Steelworkers, with a track record of devastation and company closings. I guess it's about time to understand that not all unions are bad, but then again, not all unions are good. It still comes down to the people.
 
Rocinante said:
If voters support right-wing politicians who legislate away the power of the Unions......the people lose their jobs to desperate, unemployed scabs and the fat cat management bastards prosper.
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This is not true in Oregon. The union told state employees to vote for the Democratic candidate for governor, (what gives them the right to tell anyone who to vote for?). After the Democratic gubernatorial candidate was elected he sold the state employees down the river. He screwed up our retirement program, or is trying to. That will be decided in the Supreme Court. He froze our pay increases for three years and then gave us a one time $300 bonus if we stayed on. Our health care has degraded, our wages were frozen, and our retirement benefits have been screwed up.

Our unions seems to be all about money and politics and they really don't give a rats butt about the dues paying members. IMHO. In the middle of the 3 year wage freeze I had to take a disability retirement. Because of the wage freeze my retirement is $700 a month instead of $1000, thanks to our wonderful union approved governor.

The really stupid thing as that the state will spend millions of dollars trying to support their cuts in the Supreme Court and will probably lose. Then they will still have to bring the workers retirements back to the agreed-upon levels as well as paying millions for lawyers. The governor is running for reelection this year, I don't think he is a snowball's chance.

I would like to see Camillus survive as a company. I would also like to see their workers fairly compensated for their work.

Just my $.02
 
No qoutes here so figure it out for yourself. I have always said and will continue to say that booksmart people rarely have any common sense and this is because they generally believe what they have read and been taught from the crap they read. Just ask a democrat why they are democrats and if they can even think of a reason within five minutes it's usually always because my parents were democrats or because of the things i have read about right wingers or they are gay and want rights to be accepted as humans or they are supported by the workers union and republicans are suppoted by billion dollar industry. by the way who works for these people? (the billion dollar industry) So i will say it again I WILL NEVER SELL MY FREEDOM FOR A GOVERNMENT HANDOUT! It is my parent's fault i am here not my government's no one has a responsibility for me except me now that i am an adult whether it is healthcare or my next paycheck or meal. The only guarantee any animal on this planet has is that from the moment of conception death will follow. If you vote for handouts then you give power to those who can then dictate you. Never sell your freedom for a freebie. Just be glad you have the freedom to say so and to choose what career you will follow in life. to own as many guns as you can house is an important freedom for me as well as to carry one along with the blade of choice. God bless america and her citizens
 
Well, Orvet......it sounds like what you experienced in Oregon proves out what I said about the workers having very few friends in either party. Some Unions are trusting Democrats and getting the shaft......it seems that many of the Democrats are eager to do the politically correct (popular) thing and stab the Public Employees in the back.

Both parties have moved far to the extreme political right in the last ten years or so.

The answer is to quit supporting the Right-Wing Democrats because some of them are just as bad as the Republicans.

However, that seems to be easier said than done......most people seem quite ready to stab workers, Unions and especially Public Employees in the back.

I think some people are starting to wake up and I think we'll see some improvements this fall, but will it be enough? I'm not optimistic about the chances for things getting better.

Working people have to stand together--NOT attack each other.

It would be nice if Camillus would set a good example and come to a fair agreement with the workers.

I own several knives made by Camillus. It's hard not to, because they make so many. But.......I know if they bring in scabs, or otherwise shaft the workers, I will boycott Camillus just like I boycott WalMart. I don't care how good their prices might get......to me they're dead.

And there are more like me becoming more aware every day.
 
SDT.....I'd take a "book-smart" person any day over the ignorant masses who are "Fox News Smart."

:)
 
Bravo from a former camillus cutlery employee!!!! Thankyou for your support!!! We are trying to survive like everyone else, not get rich by any means!!! Definitely the wrong career.
 
Let me offer this little bit of information to everyone (and knifeintheheart). For three years now, we have extended the contract as is with no change in salary. The only changes were changes made in our health benefit contribution. In the meantime, EVERYTHING else has gone up in price. For example, the obvious - gasoline. The Union has, IMHO, bent over backwards and gave up very much in hopes the company could turn itself around. Didn't happen. I will say, despite the obvious negative opinions of "Mr. B" (of which, I agree) that at least he had a plan. Would it have worked? We'll never know. Getting back to the subject at hand - the union did not just wake up one morning with these wages. These were wages that were negotiated over many years with the company. They (the company) knew what the wages would be up to three years in advance. Why a shock all of a sudden and the "I am shocked that they voted to strike" attitude. We didn't just have a majority vote to strike. We had a UNANIMOUS vote to strike. Not one person was willing to accept the contract as proposed. Does this not send a message to the company that maybe they are a LITTLE out of line with what they want? I'll say it again - "Bring us a FAIR contract and we'll be back to work tomorrow.
 
Rocinante said:
SDT.....I'd take a "book-smart" person any day over the ignorant masses who are "Fox News Smart."

:)
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Do you realize how many booksmart people believe as gospel that their ancestors were apes? never having enough common sense to realize that if they were, well then there wouldnt' be any apes because they would have evolved into humans. Anyway i dont watch fox or abc or nbc regulary and i never watch cnn At all and i never believe much of what any of them have to say after all they are in it for the money right? or is it for the trouble they cause among the viewing public? Anyway i do believe that wal-mart shoppers has hurt a lot of small business owners and put a lot of them and their employees out of work but how can you believe that boycotting them helps if you dont think you can tell people not to buy made in china? after all most of wal-marts inventory is chinese made. So it all boils down to the average buyer and not wal-mart itself since they can say we are just supplying what the consumer wants and it must be because they are the giant of the department store corporation. I am just glad that i live in a country where i can be a millionaire or an average or middle class citizen and it's all left up to me on how to do it or what i want out of life. P.S. i have a small library of about 1000 books in my home and i read a lot but have realized through common sense that many many many things written whether historical, educational or polititical is bs and generally just the opinions of the writer or a group of people who studied the subject and came to the conclusions based upon their beliefs. All im saying when i comment about common sense is to figure things out for yourself. I dont believe most of what either political party has to say but i will always vote for the ones that stand up for american freedoms and my right to own and carry firearms and knives of choice and it doesnt really matter to me what party he is under as long as he stands for freedom there are two other reasons for which they must stand but i wont post them here since they have nothing to do with knives, but then again this topic hasnt' been on the subject of knives in a while!
 
Yeah, I don't have much common sense.....only a sufficient quantity to know that if people keep voting for the politicians that help corporations to destroy working people and their families.....we're all screwed.

My common sense tells me that these bastards will-- as soon as it serves their purpose--take away your right to own a gun before you can blink an eye.
 
Rocinante said:
Yeah, I don't have much common sense.....only a sufficient quantity to know that if people keep voting for the politicians that help corporations to destroy working people and their families.....we're all screwed.

My common sense tells me that these bastards will-- as soon as it serves their purpose--take away your right to own a gun before you can blink an eye.
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Well then what are you to do? If you vote for the other party you are voting knowing that you are voting against the second amendment as it is a major part of their campain. There is no single party that is willing to satisfy everyones wants or needs as that is simply impossible. And it seems to me that these unions destroy more working class people than the corporations do! Like i said if they cared about the people that put them in their mercedes they wouldnt be telling them to lay out of work! They dont give a rats behind whether you keep your job or not though they might if they keep causing companies to fold wealthy as the workers have made them they are driven by greed!
 
If you read.....you can read the history of the Union in America. Union members can be proud of those who came before them and fought and sometimes died to stop the oppression and exploitation of the 19th and early 20th centuries.

ALL workers benefitted from these sacrifices. Children and women who worked in the home benefitted because of the higher standards of living and education that came from the Union Wars.

I've worked with Union people for forty years and I haven't seen a single Union leader who didn't care deeply about the people, not just Union members, but all people. Those leaders have tried and succeeded in making things better for all Americans.

But now the politicians and the people who elect them have forgotten what Unions did for this country. And corporations are encouraged to destroy lives.

Second Amendment? If you want to take a fundamentalist interpretation of the Second Amendment, then you must believe you can own machine guns, mortars and RPGs. I suppose in your eyes, then......it would be hard to vote for anyone because they all oppose your rights.

But it's not a black and white world. We must judge all things and weigh them carefully. We must always find the best choice and take it even when it's not perfect.

Anyone who would take away a man's job and destroy his family just to make bigger and bigger profits for a corporation is evil. Anyone who supports corporations who pay slave wages is evil. Any politician who supports those who oppress workers is evil. Anyone who votes for such politicians is evil.

Working people need to stand together on survival issues......basic issues that involve the ability of working people to survive, children to get an education and maintain the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

That's why I (and many others) are watching Camillus to see whether or not they deal with their workers with honor and integrity.
 
There is a saying, "You can't get blood from a turnup" I would bet that Camillus would be willing to open their books for all the employees to see if they are losing money or making money.

Some of the employee's posts sound like it is very simply "them or us". I was informed a few years ago that Camillus was in financial trouble and this is the reason they sold their part of Smoky Mtn. Knifeworks. Camillus does not sound to me like a large company that the employees would take such a vile attitude towards.

I would think one should appreciate their employment for a family owned company, and if the company would share their financial info many might take a different stance.
 
In all fairness, the company has opened their books to the Union. That was part of the agreement with one of the previous extensions of the contract. There's two schools of thought here. One - the company is, indeed, in financial trouble and ONE solution may be to cut wages. Although I would have to ask you (and everyone) - would you be willing to go back to making what you were in 1990? The second is - if they haven't turned the business around by now (and they claim they haven't made a profit in 10+ years), why would one think they would be capable of making business decisions now that would change it? As you can see, the more information that comes out, the more complicated this becomes. At least in my eyes.
 
knifeworker,

Take this from an ex-telecom guy; life has changed since the 1990s. Survival will probably mean outsourcing part of the line to Chinese manufacturing, and holding on to a small premium chunk of it here. At least that way the company will have a chance to make a comeback, and to retain some of its US workforce. These are rough times for US manufacturing. You are up against an unfair predatory business practices from China and have been sold out by the leadership of both major parties.

But, hang in there. Things change, and the panzi scheme wall street has running isn't going to stay afloat for much longer. Soon we will have to either reignite our manufacturing sector; or, learn to run around nakked.

n2s
 
Rocinante said:
If you read.....you can read the history of the Union in America. Union members can be proud of those who came before them and fought and sometimes died to stop the oppression and exploitation of the 19th and early 20th centuries.

ALL workers benefitted from these sacrifices. Children and women who worked in the home benefitted because of the higher standards of living and education that came from the Union Wars.

I've worked with Union people for forty years and I haven't seen a single Union leader who didn't care deeply about the people, not just Union members, but all people. Those leaders have tried and succeeded in making things better for all Americans.

But now the politicians and the people who elect them have forgotten what Unions did for this country. And corporations are encouraged to destroy lives.

Second Amendment? If you want to take a fundamentalist interpretation of the Second Amendment, then you must believe you can own machine guns, mortars and RPGs. I suppose in your eyes, then......it would be hard to vote for anyone because they all oppose your rights.

But it's not a black and white world. We must judge all things and weigh them carefully. We must always find the best choice and take it even when it's not perfect.

Anyone who would take away a man's job and destroy his family just to make bigger and bigger profits for a corporation is evil. Anyone who supports corporations who pay slave wages is evil. Any politician who supports those who oppress workers is evil. Anyone who votes for such politicians is evil.

Working people need to stand together on survival issues......basic issues that involve the ability of working people to survive, children to get an education and maintain the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

That's why I (and many others) are watching Camillus to see whether or not they deal with their workers with honor and integrity.
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Are you forgetting that it was the republican party that fought and died to free the slaves? and in my opinion anyone that would vote for a party that tells our daughters that they can have premarital sex and commit murder to fix their mistake is evil as the politician supporting it! And let's save the whales but kill as many americans through abortion as we can (over 5200 in this country daily) If a liberal is not the most evil form of human being i wouldnt want to see true evil! Hey vote for me and i will give you handouts and after i have the majority of the ignorant population voting for me they will eventually forget how to live without my handouts and then they will have to vote for me or lose their handouts and then i will be able to dictate them! well i wouldnt want to live under a dictator and if most americans could see and understand how a liberal's dangerous mind thinks i dont think any of them would. And i still believe that unions are not needed due to all the federal laws in place and i believe a union to be no more helpful to the common worker than the mafia they are! As far as the second amendment I have no need for mortars or fully automated weaponry at this time as i can kill any beast i desire to put on the table with the many weapons i have and i can stop any intruder with any of the handguns or buckshot throwers. But in the event i ever need mortars or fully automated weapons yeah i think they should be made available to me. After all it is the citizens not the armed forces that the second amendment speaks of. I will fight anywhere in the world for my freedoms here and that includes here! Every liberal voter is as responsible for the laws liberals support as these laws could never exist with out someone looking for a handout putting them in power! there arent many free countries but there are plenty of liberal ones. I want mine to remain free!
 
But in the event i ever need mortars or fully automated weapons yeah i think they should be made available to me.
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That about sums up your mindset, too. So we're done talking.
 
I am speaking of an attack on my land! I do not expect my government to fight my battles for me while i sit back and do nothing so yes if i am ever attacked on my land i expect to be provided with whatever i need to fight back. Perhaps i should have made it clear but i thought when i said i will fight anywhere in the world for my freedoms and that includes here that it didnt need clarifying. And one more thing if you disagree with someone and you truly believe your beliefs to be correct then you continue to argue your point. Even if you think the other party is an idiot. I will always stand for my freedoms and i will always voice my opinions (as long as that amendmant is still in the books) and i do not apologize for my beliefs.
 
Has there been any progress in the negotiations? What is the feeling on the line?

Codger :rolleyes:
 
Knifeworker,

Thank you for your information concerning that Camillus has opened their books so that their employees could see if they were making money or not.

I am very confused. You have stated that the employees know Camillus cannot stay in business because they are losing money. Also that the employees have no plan to try to buy the company. By striking this seems to be a most sure way to make sure the company does fold.

If the company is in this bad of a financial situation and i would feel sure that the management has tried to make the company successful in the knife business by going to tradeshows etc. who in their right mind would purchase a loser and employ all the union workers?

If there are abundant job opportunities in this area and you are just wanting revenge to make this family's company suffer i guess going on strike is the answer, for the results will be bankrupcy and another American company out of business.

Then if they owe money to banks the banks will put whatever assets they have (if any) up for public auction and the company that we have known as Camillus will definately be different than what it was of previous years.

I do not understand the thinking and never will of the way unions will strike knowing that it will destroy the companies they work for.
 
ww2bill-there are no good jobs in this area anymore-zero-all went to china-

they just want a fair shake-if its causes the end of camillus so be it-they are camillus as far as im concerned-they are the ones who have sacraficed for the last few years working with the company trying to save it-

not sure if the owners had any foresight to look into the future of american knife making-when you dont invest in a comapny for over 30 -40 years it will come back and bite you in the ass-there had to be enough profit in the last 20 years or so to invest in some mdern equipment and upgrade the buildings-nothing was done from what i understand-

if they invested a few hundred grand 10-15 years ago into cnc equipment and waterjets i dont think we would be having this talk right now-
 
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