Patch knives - food for thought

We are probably at a point in this conversation where we should define some hard characteristics (i.e. blade size, grind, shape; handle style; overall length; etc.).

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, it is challenging to pinpoint a precise example of a "patch knife". A study was done on a large selection of surviving examples of hunting bags from the period in question (1780s-1830s, give or take) and it was noted that many had sheaths built in for small knives but many of them also did not. This has led to some believing that though it is without question that small utilitarian blades were in common supply, it is just as probable that individuals would use whatever blade they had on hand, even large ones, to trim their patches.

For the purpose of this conversation, I would say that a patch knife is nothing more than a small blade that was used for just about everything short of shanking a bear. Some have insisted that a patch knife has to be chisel ground or at the very least, full flat ground, in order to properly trim the cloth away from the muzzle of your rifle. I'm not thinking that is entirely necessary.

In my mind, a patch style knife would make for a small, yet utilitarian, everyday knife - carried in the pocket or on a small belt sheath. Slim in overall design, with a blade length that doesn't exceed 3.5" - 4". I am picturing Stag rounds or crown with little or no guard and a tidy selection of stacked materials that Scott does so well in implementing.
 
I have to get ready and go to tonight I’ll be able to answer some of theses questions tomorrow. Although John. Mack or Sheldon should be around pretty soon and should be able to help also but FWIW a patch knife could be any small sharp knife that could fit in a possibles bag or some other convenient place.
 
Pàdruig said:
We are probably at a point in this conversation where we should define some hard characteristics (i.e. blade size, grind, shape; handle style; overall length; etc.).

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, it is challenging to pinpoint a precise example of a "patch knife". A study was done on a large selection of surviving examples of hunting bags from the period in question (1780s-1830s, give or take) and it was noted that many had sheaths built in for small knives but many of them also did not. This has led to some believing that though it is without question that small utilitarian blades were in common supply, it is just as probable that individuals would use whatever blade they had on hand, even large ones, to trim their patches.

For the purpose of this conversation, I would say that a patch knife is nothing more than a small blade that was used for just about everything short of shanking a bear. Some have insisted that a patch knife has to be chisel ground or at the very least, full flat ground, in order to properly trim the cloth away from the muzzle of your rifle. I'm not thinking that is entirely necessary.

In my mind, a patch style knife would make for a small, yet utilitarian, everyday knife - carried in the pocket or on a small belt sheath. Slim in overall design, with a blade length that doesn't exceed 3.5" - 4". I am picturing Stag rounds or crown with little or no guard and a tidy selection of stacked materials that Scott does so well in implementing.
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Now that you mention it Dylan, about a year and a half a go I was looking on line at possible bags and was thinking about buying one. And I did see quite a few of them did have a separate built in sheaths. So to start with - 1.) Blade size should be 4" or less, probable closer 3" with OAL between 6-7" I should think for easier fitting inside a possibles bag. 2.) Blade shape can be anything I suppose, but it seems the patch knives I have seen at gun show had squared off a Wharncliffe style blade (I don't know how historically accurate that is though), but drop point or spear point should work just as well. 3.) Grind - probably flat grind would be more traditional, I just don't think a lot of black smiths back then did much hollow grinding. 4.) Handles - stag rounds or crowns, both will work but with crowns are less comfortable especially on a shorter handle. Rounds also give you a bit more versatility as well because of increased comfort, and you can use them with a pouch style sheath without a keeper strap. 5.) guards - I agree either small or none existent for a patch knife brass, copper or nickel silver.

This is my 2 cents on this, so gentlemen, let me know what your thoughts are.
 
I really like that last knife, the scagel style. I wouldn’t change anything for myself except handle configuration (and maybe a shade thinner overall). Other than that you hit it pretty close, I like it a lot :thumbsup:
 
back in the late 80's, a lot of patch knives at BP shoots were wood handled paring knives.
3-4" blade, 4-4 1/2" handle
pretty much anything in the size range for a neck knife will work.
 
The way I see it a patch knife is something along the lines of what we refer to these days as a bird and trout. The Randall 8-4 and the Schrade Sharpfinger are what comes to my mind. A comfortable handle be it stag, bone, ebony or a combination of them are what my minds eye sees.
 
1066vik said:
back in the late 80's, a lot of patch knives at BP shoots were wood handled paring knives.
3-4" blade, 4-4 1/2" handle
pretty much anything in the size range for a neck knife will work.
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This is a lot of what I've seen portrayed as patch knives at the gun shows I used to go to with my Dad as a kid. Green river paring knife with an antler handle. I don't know how historically accurate it is, but it looks like it could about right.
s-l1600.jpg

Same blade still available today.
patch_knife__26737.1402337144.1280.1280.jpg
 
Mack said:
The way I see it a patch knife is something along the lines of what we refer to these days as a bird and trout. The Randall 8-4 and the Schrade Sharpfinger are what comes to my mind. A comfortable handle be it stag, bone, ebony or a combination of them are what my minds eye sees.
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These with a small guard, love the handles, maybe a few more spacers.:D Oh, and a pouch style sheath.
Unknown.jpeg Unknown-1.jpeg
 
Mack said:
The top one with the small guard is the old style and exactly what I was picturing.
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RayseM said:
I get a kick out of Scott Hanson asking for a few more spacers. ;) :)
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Pàdruig said:
We are probably at a point in this conversation where we should define some hard characteristics (i.e. blade size, grind, shape; handle style; overall length; etc.).

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, it is challenging to pinpoint a precise example of a "patch knife". A study was done on a large selection of surviving examples of hunting bags from the period in question (1780s-1830s, give or take) and it was noted that many had sheaths built in for small knives but many of them also did not. This has led to some believing that though it is without question that small utilitarian blades were in common supply, it is just as probable that individuals would use whatever blade they had on hand, even large ones, to trim their patches.

For the purpose of this conversation, I would say that a patch knife is nothing more than a small blade that was used for just about everything short of shanking a bear. Some have insisted that a patch knife has to be chisel ground or at the very least, full flat ground, in order to properly trim the cloth away from the muzzle of your rifle. I'm not thinking that is entirely necessary.

In my mind, a patch style knife would make for a small, yet utilitarian, everyday knife - carried in the pocket or on a small belt sheath. Slim in overall design, with a blade length that doesn't exceed 3.5" - 4". I am picturing Stag rounds or crown with little or no guard and a tidy selection of stacked materials that Scott does so well in implementing.
Click to expand...

Here are a few different spacer patterns I found on the internet and some right here on BFC. For a patch knife I'm thinking maybe a bit smaller and a little more subtle spacer stack. What do you think? Any new Ideas are welcome.

africa_fetting-messer_1.jpeg 75424766_2573383322746488_4462142507085463552_o.jpeg 53593461_2165371370207297_1770409395134398464_n.jpeg 81965341_2741786489239503_1545521059225141248_o.jpeg drop_point_wanderer_30-06_1.jpeg fetting-messer-wanderer-moschus1.jpeg
 
Top and bottom are my favorites if you are going for a classy knife. I nearly always prefer more subdued. I even like the damascus which is not typically a great add to a knife IMHO. The top one would be just fine with nice stag.

The one on the book is the winner though, in its less polished aspects. It easily gets my vote as to what a patch knife should be. At the least what the name evokes to my mind.

The pair in the middle are high up there too :thumbsup:

Of course it does also need to evoke Hanson Knives ;)
 
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RayseM said:
Top and bottom are my favorites if you are going for a classy knife. I nearly always prefer more subdued. I even like the damascus which is not typically a great add to a knife IMHO. The top one would be just fine with nice stag.

The one on the book is the winner though, in its less polished aspects. It easily gets my vote as to what a patch knife should be. At the least what the name evokes to my mind.

The pair in the middle are high up there too :thumbsup:

Of course it does also need to evoke Hanson Knives ;)
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I think I have to agree with you about that one on the book. Thanks for getting back to me I’m on my last 12 hr shift of 3 in a row. I’ll have mor time to talk tomorrow.
 
Those Fettings are awesome, he does incredible work, one of my favorite Makers.

I like the blade shape of the third knife down. Nice and simple.
 
Just throwing this one out for ideas. Not mine. I was just perusing patch knives on Google.

0008810_j-behring-handmade-patch-knife.jpeg
 
Third blade from the top with the handle on the book would be really nice, really Hanson like.
Rupestris said:
Just throwing this one out for ideas. Not mine. I was just perusing patch knives on Google.

0008810_j-behring-handmade-patch-knife.jpeg
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I absolutely love that.
 
Redmeadow Knives said:
Those Fettings are awesome, he does incredible work, one of my favorite Makers.

I like the blade shape of the third knife down. Nice and simple.
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I agree with you John, I always look forward to seeing his posts.

Rupestris said:
Just throwing this one out for ideas. Not mine. I was just perusing patch knives on Google.

0008810_j-behring-handmade-patch-knife.jpeg
Click to expand...

I did see this knife during my search for patch knives also, it's very nice and come to think of it I have a ton of left over antler tines.
 
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