REKAT black blade coating & misc

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Carl Jacobsen

Carl Jacobsen

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Oct 19, 1998
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I'm considering getting a Carnivour. I got some reassuring answers about REKAT's treatment of ATS34 (thanks all), so the next question would be, do I want a black coated blade? If you have a black blade Carnivour, why? (that's a query, not a challenge).

I'm tending towards the stonewashed finish, because I like that on Sebenzas -- pleasing appearance and very scratch resistant. I have (mostly positive) experience with BlackT on older Benchmades (as well as with their newer BT2 coating). Is REKAT's coating comparable, or has it been enhanced by, oh, thicker application, or magic spells, or some such?

Oh, one other vaguely related question, if I wanted the new ambidextrous studs, but with (the old?) tip down carry, does that entail a special order direct from the factory?

Actually, the (original?) clip was one of the few quibbles I had with the Carnivour I examined recently -- screwed onto the pivot pin, with another pin to keep it from rotating -- I'd prefer to see a Benchmade/Spyderco style three screw clip placed a little higher on the pivot end.

Thanks,
-- Carl

P.S. By the way, why "Carnivour", rather than "Carnivore"?
 
Hi Carl,

I have a black coated Pioneer and so far the coating has held up pretty well. It got scratched when I attacked a helpless aluminum can, but the scratches didn't go all the way down to the metal. I would say it's probably a little better than Benchmade's coating, but I haven't really abused my coated Benchmade knife so far.

I ordered the black Pioneer to see how durable teflon coatings are, and so far I'm pretty pleased. In general though, I prefer the look of uncoated blades better. The nice thing about a coated blade is that you don't have to worry about rust protection, so it's a little more low maintenance.

Alan
 
Carl,
It appears that "Carnivour" is the production version of Pat Crawford's custom made "Carnivore".

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If it's stupid but works, then it isn't stupid.


 
There is Teflon then there is BlackT and they are a world apart in price, performance and application. Yes Benchmade once used BlackT but now use a Powder Coat Teflon which is greatly inferiour to Birdsongs BlackT.
Teflon powder coat is strickly a surface coat
BlackT because of the process is sub surface
One of out contractorshas a huge powder coat operation. They make HP computer housings. They offred to Teflon Powder Coat our knives, we passed sure it was 70% cheaper but you get what you pay for. We have also looked at the Titanium coatings pass again.
We have a long history with Birdsong and his BlackT coating, if it ain't broke don't fix it is our attitude.

Bob Taylor

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Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints and escaping.
 
Bob, is the black coating on the REKAT UNK BlackT as well?!

Thanks.

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Work hard, play hard, live long.
Outlaw_Dogboy

 
Outlaw_Dogboy
BlackT is the only coating we use, why because it has the best qualties and in four years proven itself to us. The reason the military, FBI and others use it exclusivly. It is expensive compared to many but it performs.

Bob Taylor

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Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints and escaping.
 
Thanks Bob. I gotta say, I really like the REKAT Utility Neck Knife, and the coating really seems to be holding up well so far. Great knife, wish you were producing more of them. But, of course, that's another thread
wink.gif
.

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Work hard, play hard, live long.
Outlaw_Dogboy

 
I bought an Escalator at the blade show with a Black T coating. I love the Escalator, truly and awesome design by BRAM FRANK, excellent knife!!!!! But the Black T coat is flaking off! especially at the edges, I am in the military, and wish now that I had just gotten the orginal finish instead of messing with a cheap coating. The rolling lock on my Escalator seems to be wearing down on one side more than the other, which suggests uneven contact within the lock, I discussed it with other owners of knives with the same lock and it appears that thier knives are in the same situation.

David
 
Driscoll
The Esclator was a effort of three people in the design, Bram Frank, Bob Brothers and myself.
BlackT is anything but cheap and no coating is designed to be beat and rubbed.
No moving part will wear equaly

Bob Taylor

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Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints and escaping.
 
I never beat or rubbed my knife, it stays clipped on my pocket, I use the trainer for everything else, which I believe was Bram Frank's intent when he designed the knife, but the coating still flakes. What I meant was that the knife wears unevenly in the lock, obviously favoring one side of the blade, on a piece that I'm pretty sure was intended to contact across the entire surface, it seems as if this would weaken the lock.

 
Driscoll

Once again the Esclator was designed by Bram Bob Brothers and myself. If your BlackT is flaking then it's defective and we will refinish it.

Bob Taylor

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Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints and escaping.
 
That's the second time you have mentioned that Bob Brothers and yourself have a hand in designing the Escalator. Bob Brothers designed the Rolling Lock, an Escalator is an Escalator regardless of what kind of lock is on it, and doesn't change the design of the knife, or its functions. I spoke with you personally at the Blade Show, we discussed the Escalator. I mentioned several times that it was an interesting knife that BRAM FRANK had designed, you didn't attempt to take any credit at that time. We also discussed the newer release for the lock, because a friend of mine has one of the orginals before it was changed, so I know about what time you started PRODUCING the Escalator FOR Bram Frank, on top of this, I have seen the original designs/drawings that have dated YEARS before this time. Didn't the Escalator win and award at the Blade Show? I don't recall your name being mentioned there either. I could be wrong on that part. Not only that, but the Escalator uses and capitalizes on such things as Small Circle Jujitsu, Pressure Points, and much much more, the Escalator is the result of YEARS of thought and training, which is only gained under the instruction of people like Wally Jay, Prof Presas, or George Dillman, just to name a short few, do you have training under these people? Do you have extensive knowledge of these things? The very things inwhich the Escalator is all about? Bram Frank does.

Come to think of it... Don't you attempt to take credit for the Warrior too? That was Gayle Hogan's wasn't it?

So let me recap:

1. Bob Brothers designed the LOCK, that is used on Escalator, not the Escalator itself.

2. You don't seem to want to take credit for the Escalator face to face.

3. The orginal designs for the Escalator were drawn LONG BEFORE you were ever in the picture.

4. You do not possess the training, knowledge or experience to change the smallest detail on the Escalator.

5. You have a shady past concerning design/credit with good knives.

David
 
Before you start making assumptions and off base remarks, make sure that you re-examine the situation very carefully, and what you want to result from this thread.

Are you accusing Bob of ripping of Bram, or something else? You seem to be looking for a fight here, judging from your posts, and don't seem to be concerned with looking for a solution.

I wouldn't go so far as to say Bob doesn't have the experience to change the design or the know how, and I wouldn't be so fast to question his credibility without anything other than hot air to back you up. Your posts are bordering on flaming, and you know that's not approved here.

Furthermore, you and I both know that it takes more than a sketch to make a production knife. It has to be designed, engineered, tested, etc etc etc, all of which require actual machine work, not just conjecture. So, in my opinion, giving Bram all the credit for the knife is a little inappropriate. Having the concept is one thing, actually building the product is another, right?

So, let's take a step back, take a deep breath, and hear from the source as to what's the truth about this, instead of just making idle speculation and wild ass guesses.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
There is an old saying “ It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubts.
First of all there were two designers listed with the U.S. Patent office on the Rolling Lock that’s a fact.
I refer you to our web page designed by Spark it is taken directly from our brochure, which was printed, Dec of 98 and Bram Saw at the SHOT Show in January of this year I believe a collaboration means exactly that and it doesn’t refer to the Rolling Lock. Isn’t it funny he agreed, then now changes his mind? Bram makes lots of claims.
And yes I do have experance in the Martial Arts if you want to include boxing try starting in 1958 and yes I do hold multiple Black Belts and am a certified L.E. POST Certified instructor in more than one state.
As far as taking credit face to face NO PROBLEM. Bram and I have once gone full speed full contact once, one of us ended up on their butt in 2.2 seconds, give you a hint it wasn’t me there is a video tape of this memorial experience.
The Escalator won at the Blade Show where was I; I missed that award, oops wrong again.
I did design the Warrior Knife with Randy Wanner in 1977 that’s a fact even the most ignorant knife nut knows. The fact we are reintroducing it this year and was paid royalties by AMK for their manfacture of said design sort of speaks for itself
You can call James Keating, Kelly Worden, Steven Dick, and Greg Walker to name a few who have been on the mat with me. Mike and Spark can also attest there is some skill there.
As to the design of the Escalator I refer you to our Brochure we can document the design, more so than a crude drawing.
The most inflammatory part of you post is the statement that “I have a shady past concerning design/credit with good knives” please enlighten us all and tell me where, what, and whom? You should check out your facts before running your mouth your wrong on all counts.

Bob Taylor



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Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints and escaping.
 
Spark,

Idle speculation and wild ass guesses. almost everything I wrote was of personal experience, this is a discussion, everything I post is available to all to disagree or refute as they see fit, if I am wrong, teach me so. A fight is not what I'm looking for.

You stated "it takes more than a sketch to make a production knife". Yes we both know and agree on that. None of that was my argument, my argument was on the credit of the DESIGN, not the PRODUCTION.

Example: Person A designs a knife. Person B take the designs and actually makes a knife. Person B then turns around and says he had a hand in designing the knife. Doesn't add up does it. Mr. Taylor didn't refute the existance of the designs years before he even met Bram Frank, and the designs I saw were anything but crude drawings(this last refering to Bob's statement)

Yes, from the source. There are TWO sources not just one, Bram Frank and Bob Taylor, neither of which is you or I.

Bob,

There is also another saying "A liar lies not only once, but must construct an elaborate web of lies to support the first one.

I never said that you had no marial arts experience, I said that you had no expierence in the fields that would make it possible to design the Escalator. Please explain if I'm wrong.

You claim "Bram and I have once gone full speed full contact once, one of us ended up on their butt in 2.2 seconds, give you a hint it wasn’t me there is a video tape of this memorial experience". This next statement is my OPINION only. Yeah right.....whatever. I will pay you shipping handling, the cost of a copy of the tape, just send me an address. Let me guess... you don't have the tape, and can't get ahold of a copy, right?

You also stated "The Escalator won at the Blade Show where was I; I missed that award, oops wrong again" I said that your name wasn't mentioned in the award, not that you were not there. So, oops just another case of your misreading/misunderstanding.

As far as contacting James Keating, Kelly Worden, Steven Dick, and Greg Walker, it WILL happen. James Keating has a web page too, so tell me what they will say when I do speak to them.

You stated "You should check out your facts before running your mouth your wrong on all counts." I ask you, am I? am I really? You know better than anyone on that topic, so don't answer. You seem fond of old quotes, so I'll give you another "The truth will out".

David


 
Yes, I realize this isn't the place for arugument, accusations and the like. I'll be more than happy to contiue this discussion throught personal E-mail.

David
 
Driscoll
Save your time I have nothing to say to or about you. I will delete any email from you unread. Your unfounded accuations and blatent attacks show your intentions and I refuse to get into a war of wits with an unarmed indivdual.

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Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints and escaping.
 
Driscoll
Save your time I have nothing to say to or about you. I will delete any email from you unread. Your unfounded accuations and blatent attacks show your intentions and I refuse to get into a war of wits with an unarmed indivdual.

Bob Taylor

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Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints and escaping.
 
Bob,

You seem to be full of little witticisms.
"I refuse to get into a war of wits with an unarmed indivdual." Good one, old but good.
Obviously a snipe at my intelligence, also the equililant of calling me "Mr. Poopy Pants", childish, I'll spare you a return insult. The TRUTH is in the FACTS, not the intelligence, or wit as you put it, of the speaker.

David
 
As the one who originated this thread (on a far different topic from the one it is pursuing now), and at the risk of redirecting everyone's hostility towards myself, I'd like to ask that you take this to email, or just drop it. Neither side in the argument that has broken out here are evidencing the kind of behavior we'd like to see here at BladeForums, nobody else is particularly interested in watching this, and I'm getting "(xyz) has just replied to your topic" email every time a new volley gets posted.

I'd appreciate it if the moderators would lock this thread.

Thanks,
-- Carl

[This message has been edited by Carl Jacobsen (edited 19 September 1999).]
 
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