REKAT Fraud?

Bob - What do you mean by ductility? In the dictionary it says "easily molded".
What advantages does it give me to have a ductile knife? Is it easier to sharpen?
Why are you not an ATS-34 fan?
Im really a FNG about metals, so your views and preferances are very interesting. If there really is no advantage with the 1095 then I probably should have shut up about the f word and reorder. How about shattering/breaking/chipping and bending? Is there any difference? I also think someone pointed to the size of the "grains" in regards to the edgeholding/cutting capability. Could this be the reason that some would prefer the 1095? Come to think of it my experience has been that in gutting and cutting fish (several tonnes a day) my 5$ "rusting" knife has outperformed *all* the stainless knives I have tried. I think I sharpened it more often than the others did, but it would cut like a starwars sword. It feels like it "bites" more than the stainless if you can understand what I mean.
Maybe its due to a rougher edge obtained in the black steel?
 
DANG!!! Now I gotta go grab my REKAT UNK -- wait, was the switch done with those, or only the Fangs? Dangit, now I gotta re-read this whole thread
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!! Anyway, now I gotta check. I'm pretty sure that the UNK that I have is 1095, though, mainly because it has that bite that I associate with non-stainless steel.

Sigurd, in general, IMO, any non-stainless steel will take a "keener" or more "biting" edge than any stainless out there, with the possible exception of some of the CPM varieties. I must admit, though, that my experience so far with my new Benchmade 730 in 154CM has left me pleased with the bite of its edge. But, anyway, I digress. I have heard it said(typed) that the chromium carbides tend to be larger than the iron or vanadium carbides (among others), therefore the edge won't get as fine? I don't know. I do know that I have had EXTREMELY good service and edge holding from the REKAT UNK that I have, whether it is 1095 or ATS. In general, IMO, it has proven itself to be dang near the equal of the production 440V blades that I have. In my experience, and in my usage, in terms of keeness of edge, and edge holding ability.

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iktomi
 
SigurdGood questions
Stainless according to the metallurgist is having 13% chromium there is a wide variety of stainless steels out there some good for blades some worthless. Without more information on the stainless in the knives you hate I can’t answerer why they suck. The amount of carbon is important to the edge holding ability, as is the hardness of the steel. Once again more information is needed.
I dislike ATS-34 because in my opinion it is overpriced and over rated and personal experience inconstant. So why did we use it? The market demands. Now the swing is to 154CM., which we prefer for a number of reasons. We are also going to secondary steel. A modified D-2 some great stuff.
The reason for the 1095 in the neck knives was we BlackT coated them to make them impervious to the elements and the cost factor it is 1/10th the price of ATS-34 1095 is a good all around spring steel with good propties for knives, except it will rust just looking at it. Is ATS-34 better yes is it worth 10 times the price NO.
I take it your cleaning salt-water fish, which is the nastiest thing one can do to a knife very corrosive.
Personally I prefer high carbon or tool steel but in making folders the market demands a stainless steel or at a minimum something along the lines of D-2. We have looked into D-2 for a while and have found a very excellent modified version that we feel smokes ATS-34 and 154CM but only time will tell.

Bob Taylor



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Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints and escaping.
 
Cliff, I agree that in general, steel-swapping sans notification isn't good practice. However, it happened as the last of a given model was being put out, and they didn't spend the resources to re-label the last 50 of a low-end product they weren't making much money on. And as Bob says, a higher cost steel was substituted for a lower-cost one.

I understand how and why it happened, and it doesn't affect my opinion of REKAT.

Sigurd: the best thing we've found for doing a light anti-corrosion coating on a non-stainless blade is any of the various silicon-based oils sold on a cloth. These are common at gun shops and marine supply houses, a more common brand is "tuff-cloth" but the generics aren't bad either. A quick wipe-down and you're done.

For it's blade length class, the HW is quite possibly the most terrifying blade ever built
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. Funny as hell, but quite literally true. To me, that's a selling point - some dumb mugger gets an eyefull of that freakshow in steel and they'll run like a bunny
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. For a folder, the Sifu is also effective in such fashion but it's no HW.

The HW is also a damned good fighter, especially if you like fast in-close reverse-grip tactics. In close, it just plain rocks
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.

Jim
 
I would just like to sum up why I think this thread is important (or isnt) with a question: If you lock 2 similar (fangs/utilities) knives, one with 1095 and one with ATS-34 steel into for instance a crack in a wall and apply equal pressure to both, which will break first?

Sigurd
 
Depends entirely on heat treatment. What would be more accurate to say is that 1095 has the potential for greater toughness relative to ATS-34.

But even answering this question in a relative sense is misleading, because putting a knife in a crack and bending it sideways will generally break a knife, regardless of what it is made out of. It is just a matter of how far the knife bends first. If lateral strength is an important criteria for your knife, try to imagine what the greatest lateral force that you want your knife to be able to sustain, then get a materials engineering book and calculate how thick your knife needs to be.
 
Sigurd, if you apply force then the ATS-34 will take much more force to break before the 1095 one, which is a plain carbon steel and fairly weak. The 1095 though is much tougher and more ductile.

Jim, just because it is only more expensive does not mean it is better. Peoples opinions differ on steels and assuming your customers don't care is not a decision that indicates behavior I would support and bottom line is misrepresenting the product.

-Cliff
 
I dont understand how 1095 can be tougher yet the ATS-34 can be applied more force to before it breaks. Can you please elaborate?
Also I am not sure I understand the word ductile in terms of a knife. Does this mean it will bend more/easier? or hold the edge for a shorter time? chip the edge less frequent? Sharpen easier? Oof you really make me doubt my 1095 decicion..maybe I'll have to buy one of each:/ :)

I was (as usual) a little unclear when I stated the last question: because hypothetically, a person could need his knife for instance like in scaling a mountain, prying open a door or such. It was my unconfirmed assumption that 1095 would more likely hold up to that kind of work. Im not saying thats why I want the knife, but kinda if you venture with a minimum of tools well very hypothetic any way. Another less critical example that could happen is that a person is very impressed by his 1095 (which is ATS-34) stainless capability, so he figgers why spend the extra money for a stainless one. So he leaves his brand new 500$ 1095 blade wet in the sheath or whatever and the next day its destroyed..'
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Well now I already have gone way to far on this.. excuse me. Its probly no big deal for anyone. But I still wonder about the differences between those two steels. What will be best choice for any possible situations. I guess a 1095 utility wont last long in a boot, but I can hardly picture it very comfortable to have a knife in the boot? anyone use this?
 
Cliff, we agree this wasn't REKAT's finest hour, and that it shouldn't have happened. But under the "totality of the circumstances", including that this was the last of a retiring low-end product line, this incident doesn't affect how I feel about Bob, or REKAT, nor will it influence further buying decisions.

Does that make sense?

Jim
 
Bob, when you shipped the ATS-34 ones in place of the 1095, was it explained to those few customers that a switcheroo had occurred, or were they just sent with the attitude of "what they don't know won't hurt 'em"? In a neck knife, the only reason I would take 1095 over ATS-34 is cost. While most REKAT customers probably know a little more about knives than those that buy from the more marketed brands, I still don't see too many people making a choice of 1095 over ATS-34 in a neck knife for performance reasons. As much as we'd like to think our beloved neck knives are high-performance tools, they are generally used for fairly light tasks. That said, edge-holding is an issue because neck knives are used for...big surprise...cutting stuff! Not prying, not throwing, etc, but they are actually used to slice. If I'd ordered a 1095 model and was sent an ATS-34 one, I can't say I'd be all that disappointed. Especially when it's summer and the knife is getting all boogered up with sweat. Just my 2 cents.
Forza REKAT!

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Sigurd :

how 1095 can be tougher yet the ATS-34 can be applied more force to before it breaks.
Click to expand...

Because how much force it takes to bend a blade is dependent on strength and ATS-34 is far stronger than 1095.

[ductility]

Does this mean it will bend more/easier? or hold the edge for a shorter time? chip the edge less frequent? Sharpen easier?
Click to expand...

It will bend more before breaking after it has taken a perm. set. Ductility increases edge retention and ease of sharpening.

-Cliff
 
In my experiences wearing REKAT's ATS34 Fang and 1095 Fang. I find the "T" coated models to require less attention to cleaning. I have to scrub the ATS34 at the end of every day (except in the winter) to remove the small smudge of rust that appears on the blade under the sheaths "drain hole."

I would like to have a Black T coated ATS34 model. I'll have to start looking closely at knives at the shows.
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