"Reparations for Slavery?"

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It is with some misgivings that I post the following article from Fred Reed, police reporter. This is a touchy subject and I have no problem if the Mods want to move this to the Political Forum.

It is something that I want to share with my friends here in the Cantina.

Personally I do not seek to categorize people into broad categories and much prefer to treat everyone on a personal basis. However I do see trends, patterns that seem destructive to various groups.

I consider it destructive to put the control of your lives outside yourself --- to continually blame other people for your lot in life. IF you do this, you CAN NEVER SUCCEED! This is the point I am trying to make here. Not to flame anyone.

And I hope that no one on this Forum will try to use this post as a way of flaming ANY ethnic group because that only leads to further discord.

I can not, and do not lump all blacks into this arena, just noisy and irritating people who think they can demand and get. The guy below is REALLY over the top, but he has some pretty good points. If there was less "demading" and more education, this would be a happier world.

I could go on, but will leave you to see how much of the following you agree with. There is no question but that Fred Reed is harsh and over the top, but I must agree with many of the points he raises here. So do many of my black friends.

Slavery Reparations .......by Fred Reed

On the Web I find that Henry Louis Gates Jr., the chairman of Afro- American Studies at Harvard, is demanding that whites pay reparations to blacks. It's because of slavery, see. He is joined in this endeavor by a gaggle of other professional blacks. I guess he'll send me a bill, huh?

I feel like saying, "Let me get this straight, Hank. I'm slow. Be patient. You want free money because of slavery, right? I don't blame you." I'd like free money too. Tell you what. I believe in justice. I'll give you a million dollars for every slave I own, and another million for every year you were a slave. Fair enough? But tell me, how many slaves do you suppose I have? In round numbers, I mean...Say to the nearest dozen. And how long were you a slave?

Oh. In other words, I owe you reparations for something that I didn't do and didn't happen to you. That makes sense. Like lug nuts on a birthday cake.

Personally, I think you owe me reparations for things you didn't do and never happened to me. I've never been coated in Dutch chocolate and thrown from the Eiffel Tower. I'll bet you've never done it to anyone. I want reparations. Kinda silly, isn't it?

But if we're going to talk about reparations, that's a street that runs in two directions. You want money from me for what some other whites did to some other blacks in another century. How about you guys paying whites reparations for current expenses caused by blacks? Not long ago blacks burned down half of Los Angeles, a city in my country. Cities are expensive, Hank. Build one sometime and you'll see what I mean. Whites had to pay taxes to repair Los Angeles for you. You can send me a check.

Now, yes, I know you burned LA because you didn't like the verdict in the trial of those police officers. Well, I didn't like the verdict in the Simpson trial. But I didn't burn my house and loot Korean grocers. Over the years blacks have burned a lot of American cities: Newark, Detroit, Watts, on and on. Now add in the fantastic cost over the years of welfare in all its forms, of large police forces and jails and security systems in department stores.

I can't live in the capital city of my own country because of crime committed by blacks. Toss in the cultural cost of lowering standards in everything for the benefit of blacks. See what I mean?

Now, I'd view things differently if you said, "Fred, blacks can't get anywhere in a modern country without education. We know that. We need better schools, smarter teachers, harder courses, books with smaller pictures and bigger words. Can you help us?" I'd say, "Hallelujah! Hoo-ahh! Not just yes, but hell yes. Let's sell an aircraft carrier and get these folks some real schools and get them into the economic mainstream." I'd say it partly because it would be the right thing to do, and partly, because I'd like to add you guys to the tax base.

The current custodial state is expensive. I'd just love for blacks to study and learn to compete and stop burning places. But is it going to happen? You may not believe it, but I, and most whites, don't like seeing blacks as miserable and screwed up as they are. I spend a fair amount of time in the projects. Those places are ugly. It's no fun watching perfectly good kids turn into semiliterate dope dealers who barely speak English. It just plain ain't right. But, Hank, what am I supposed to do about it? I can't do your children's homework.. At some point, people have to do things for themselves, or they don't get done.

Maybe it's time.

I'll tell you what I see out in the world, Hank.. I think blacks are too accustomed to getting anything they want by just demanding it. True, it has worked for over half a century. Get a few hundred people in the street, implicitly threaten to loot and burn, holler about slavery, and the Great White Cash Spigot turns on. Thing is, whites don't much buy it any longer. Most recognize that what once was a civil-rights movement has become a shakedown game. Few people still feel responsible for the failings and inadequacies of blacks. Political correctness keeps the lid on -- but everyone knows the score. Which scares me, Hank.

On one hand, blacks hate whites and incline toward looting and burning. (The whites you hate are the ones who marched in the civil-rights movement. Ever think about that?)

On the other hand, whites quietly grow wearier and wearier of it. Not good.

On the third hand (allow me three hands, for rhetorical convenience), blacks keep demanding things. As I write, you demand reparations for slavery. Blacks in Oklahoma (I think it was) want money for some ancient race riot. Other blacks reject the Declaration of Independence, blacks in New York hint broadly at burning and looting over a trial, yet more demand the elimination of the Confederate flag, and the federal equal opportunity apparatus, which means blacks, wants to sue Silicon Valley for not hiring nonexistent black engineers.

That's a lot of demanding for one month, Hank. What happens if whites ever say, "No"?

Now, how about you? You've got a cushy job up there at Harvard, and you can hoot and holler about what swine and bandits whites are. I guess it's lots of fun, and you get a salary for it. But don't you think you might do blacks more good if you told them to complain less and study more?

For example, if you want blacks to work in Silicon Gulch, the best approach might be to find some really smart black guys, and get them to study digital design, not Black Studies. That's how everybody else does it. It works. Then blacks wouldn't feel left out, and racial tension would decline.

Sound like a plan?

Just out of curiosity, how many hours a week do professors of Afro-American Studies spend in the projects, encouraging poor black kids to study real life sho-nuf subjects?

Fred

 
People make value judgements and generalizations about reality in order to make some sense of same. I'm not certain there really is a such thing as 'blacks'. Ie- 'blacks' didn't like the verdict in LA and burned the city.
There are many 'blacks' who did not do this- are they still black?

I do think there are population groups in the US rewarded for bad behavior. Hollywood actors come to mind.

For some reason, it seems to be hard for people to understand we are all pretty much the same. The lesson of Nazi Germany is not that Germans are bad, easily fooled, or warlike. It is that people can do horrible things if they are not very careful.

There is a back lash against 'Black entitlement". I think the article above is best understood as a painful reaction to injustice in our society. I don't agree with all the language or thought.

I want the forum to be a place trusted enough to bring painful issues, both personal and public, for our consideration.

Let's be careful how we treat this one- it's one of the most painful public issues.


munk
 
munk said:
People make value judgements and generalizations about reality in order to make some sense of same. I'm not certain there really is a such thing as 'blacks'. Ie- 'blacks' didn't like the verdict in LA and burned the city.
There are many 'blacks' who did not do this- are they still black? munk


We CAN NOT lump all people with black skin into this. I feel that a majority do not feel this way. What we have to contend with is a vocal minority. I also disgree with the tone of Fred Reed's article, still I feel that he has some valid points. How did we get to such a level of foolishness? Both from Reed and from the people he is writing about?

munk said:
I do think there are population groups in the US rewarded for bad behavior. Hollywood actors come to mind.

For some reason, it seems to be hard for people to understand we are all pretty much the same. The lesson of Nazi Germany is not that Germans are bad, easily fooled, or warlike. It is that people can do horrible things if they are not very careful.

There is a back lash against 'Black entitlement". I think the article above is best understood as a painful reaction to injustice in our society. I don't agree with all the language or thought. munk

It is "a painful reaction to injustice in our society." Not only injustice, but self limiting behavior of people of any color, race, national origin, etc.

I agree with Munk that I don't like the language or the tone of the article. But one thing is very apparent to me, the "demanding" is not working. Even when the "Demandors" get what they ask for, they are NO BETTER OFF!

Welfare is horribly destructive to the family unit and it has become a way of life for too darn many blacks and whites.

The "Cash Spigot" at the VERY best enables limiting behavior --- behavior that limits individual success by weakening the desire to learn and the will to work. In my mind a man is nothing without a will to work and better himself and his family through honest labor.

munk said:
I want the forum to be a place trusted enough to bring painful issues, both personal and public, for our consideration.

Let's be careful how we treat this one- it's one of the most painful public issues.


munk

Amen and PLEASE.
 
Iirc the African American inhabitants have been compensated enough for there suffering during slavery. Maybe the African American community can look into the history of slavery and they will find out that slavery was and still is a lucrative part of trading in Africa. The slaves were captured and sold by fellow Africans. Thousands of children disappear every year in Africa and they are bought as slaves for the wealthy Muslim community. Slavery has always been an accepted way of trading by Muslim Arabs.
Iirc they founded Liberia as a homeland for freed slaves, and in that same Liberia slavery is an every day event.

What the U.S. did was buying a product that was a commodity at the time.
I am certain that everyone of us can find a period in his history when they where prosecuted or treated unhuman.

If financial compensation has to be given to everyone who's ancestors where mistreated then i should be entitled to compensation.

My country was occupied by Romans and lot's of people where forced to work as slaves in the Roman empire, sold as cheap labor, some even had to fight as gladiators in Rome.

I don't see myself demanding financial compensation from the Italian Governement because once my people where enslaved by them.
 
Wow , I do agree with you that reparations for past acts by other people is not a good way to go . There is a lot of anger and backlash along with overkill involved with any oppressed peoples demand for dignity . Money won,t give prople dignity .
 
I understand the arguments here, but to me this is the kind of thread that really appeals to people who like to look for any opportunity to try to downplay racisim by pointing out the extremes on the other side from their position.

Not that I think that black folks should be paid, OR the other way around. I have just herd a tremendous number of closet racists bring stuff up like this, and 90% of the time the original poster is south of the Mason Dixon line
 
I'm sorry but I gave up being so tied up over blacks (or African Americans if you wish) why? lemme explain.

I'm a mixture of a lot of things,two being Celt and Viking....they both took slaves-white slaves,yep we took our fellow Europiens and sold them to Muslums,and kept a few for our own use.

So the blacks come along and get nabbed and become slaves....now they scream and cry about all the awful things whites did,sorry but so? it's happend all throughout human history I say let us be smart enough to not do it again and just go on with our lives.
 
It seems to me that too few people want to take responsibility for their own actions. Maybe it's worse, here, in CA but it looks to be a widespread problem. Want to shake down a major fast food chain? Put a finger in your food or spill some coffee on yourself. Mishap with a powertool? Sue Black and Decker. Can't find a job? Must be an "ism" (racism, sexism, ageism, etc.). Who can we sue for that?

The black community needs the same thing the white (or any) community needs. For father's to stick around. For mothers not to use the TV as a babysitter. For somebody in a position to heard to tell these young folks that "fashnizzle" is not a word.

For every music/movie/sports star there are a million guys doing minimum wage grunt jobs with no easy way out. Sling some weed, go to jail, racist system, daddy didn't stick around, too cool for school, baby mama's...

If you look like a thug, dress like a thug, talk like a thug, act like a thug don't surprised when you can't find a decent job. This goes for black gangstas, white skate punks, Mexican vatos and Vietnamese low riders.

School is hard, work is hard, parenting is hard but nobody wants to hear it, not when you can just demand things.

That came out more like a rant, and less focused, than I intended. Sorry.

Frank
 
I agree also. I am of Irish descent, but you won't see me asking British people for reparations for what Oliver Cromwell did to my "people". Sure I'm angered, but I got over it. Both sides of my parents families did not own slaves, and I'll be darned if I'm gonna pay even one cent. Enough money is taken out of my check for welfare as it is. It seems like most of these black leaders are just prolonging the racist views in our country instead of realizing that most whites do see them as equals and are not racist. I wish I knew how to contact these clowns so I could tell them to look up the "Nueces River Massacre" in civil war era Texas to see how some whites were killed for not wanting to own slaves or fight in the war. Oh well sorry for the rant
 
I understand the arguments here, but to me this is the kind of thread that really appeals to people who like to look for any opportunity to try to downplay racisim by pointing out the extremes on the other side from their position>>>>>>>>> Hollow

Did you read the thoughtful posts here? Isn't this an opinion based upon your fear of what might be happening, and not neccesarily what is happening right now in this thread?

I'm tired of not being able to discuss racism because it means we are racists. I'm tired of having taboo topics off limits because it means we down play racism, or a women's right to vote, or any darn thing. Frankly, I think the entrenched and auto pilot resistance to these topics are what keeps special interest groups paid off and second class citizens.

We arent allowed to talk about it because it allows someone to stereotype us negatively. That means change is being resisted out of fear.



munk
 
Reparations my foot!:thumbdn: What about the ndns? :eek: I agree that welfare is the suckling hog that is keeping way too many people on welfare no matter their skin color.
I live right near Tulsa Oklahoma where a dreadful race riot took place in the '20s and have listened to the old folks decrying their fate along with the younger ones that wasn't there.
Well when reparations are paid to the American NDN for the treaties broken, the money we are swindled out of by the BIA repaid and the Trail of Tears compensated then we can talk about reparations for the black folks IMO.
I never pursued being enrolled as a tribal member because I am too damned proud. I made it on my own and expect that most folks can make it on theirs as well.
There's a lot of us ndns that have made it on our own and we haven't been accused of being apples as long as we keep the traditions of our people alive.
The main difference between the ndns and the blacks is that the blacks want in and the ndn wants out.
If you live in a state where the ndns have built casinos then you have no doubt heard the whines of the politicians and others bemoaning the fact that the ndns are becoming self sufficient. It seems these people would prefer to keep the ndns on the public dole.:(
I am very proud of my people starting to become self sufficient at long last and seeing our elders get the much needed medical care they have always deserved.
I'm also very proud that we ndns don't have our version of Jesse Jackson.
If we ever do then I will be ashamed of my heritage for the first time in my life.

A lot of people don't know it but a lot of ndns were also kept and sold as slaves. This was mostly during the time of the French and English occupation. I think every race has been sold into slavery at some time or another.:(
 
What we did to the Indians was nothing less than genocide. The Cherokee in North Carolina were progressing and had farms, stores, and nice homes. The white settlers coveted what they had and just took it. :(

Steve
 
And where does it end? Should the Sioux offer reparations to the Pawnee because after being bribed with trade rifles to get out of Minn. they swept down on the Pawnee Reservation and wiped out men, women and children who were unarmed? The Pawnee's never recovered from that.

People are people. History is full of ignorance, violence, corruption and despair.

The British traveled all over the globe conquering peoples. Spain wiped out an entire civilization in South America.

But there are good things too. Self sufficient people who make it. The black middle class has never been larger.

We got to hope we're better than we were a hundred years ago. A hundred years is not very much time.




munk
 
I'm tired of not being able to discuss racism because it means we are racists. I'm tired of having taboo topics off limits because it means we down play racism, or a women's right to vote, or any darn thing.

I agree. If we talk respectfully and try hard to be fair, anyone of us regardless of color etc., should be allowed to discuss race issues and any other topic within reason.

We have to be able to talk about things if we are ever going to get to the point where we start moving forward together instead of treading water. Alot of folks are sinking while we do this.
 
Bravo Yvsa. My mother told me about alot of the things you mentioned (she is Shoshoni, and my father was part Seminole I'm told). Every time I hear people talk about slavery, reperations, etc. I always bring up that blacks were not the only slaves. This of course gets sort of pushed aside until I mention that it seems they think blacks are not as important as indians, at which point they quickly end the conversation.

Boo on reparations! Though I must admit, some of the wording in this article made it seem that the author was a bit....overly biased about his race relations.
 
Man, I'd like to jump in on this one. I'm tired of hearing black demands. It would cause trouble for sure. What a topic for a knife site.
 
There is a very very powerful force involved in all of human affairs called "culture."
We are born into it and before we are really old enough to understand this, we have children of our own who are born into it.
We teach our children a vast amount of knowledge before they are 4 years old.
This early childhood education colors and influences EVERYTHING that is taught later on.
Very few things are powerful enough to change a culture in a short period of time. Electricity and electronics, foreign influence, and a few other things..

To a certain point, we do not have a choice as to where we are born or how we are raised. After a certain point, we certainly do.

Let me recommend a book: The End of Racism by Dinesh D'Souza.
I met Dnesh in 1993, he is a brilliant man and defined american culture very well in this book, but basically, the people who need to hear it dont want to read it...
he writes debating foe Jesse Jackson: "I found the concept of this rich, successful man -- who arrived by private jet, who speaks at the Democratic
National Convention, whose son is a congressman -- identifying himself as a victim of oppression a bit puzzling and amusing."

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/06...f=pd_bbs_1/102-3049172-3870567?_encoding=UTF8
 
Steve Poll said:
Man, I'd like to jump in on this one. I'm tired of hearing black demands.

I'm tired of hearing demands, period.

The blacks got screwed. The Indians got screwed. The jews got screwed. Everyone got screwed. If there's one underlying theme of human existance, it's that people treat other people badly when they're in a position to get away with it. It's a lousy thing to do, but people do it anyway.

Everyone owes everyone something, if you go back far enough.

I didn't enslave anyone and I surely didn't steal any land from anyone either. And, during the Holocaust, I was not imprisoned. I wasn't even alive. I don't owe anyone anything. No one owes me anything either. Bad things have happened in the past, but few things annoy me as much as someone complaining about their misfortune while speaking of events that are several generations removed from them. I place more stock in gripes about gas prices; at least that's happening to them personally.

If you did something to my parents, or my grandparents, or my great grandparents, or so on, that's one thing, but until you've done it to me, you haven't done it to me. And if you haven't done it to me, I probably don't deserve any money for it.

The sooner everyone understands this, the sooner we can stop complaining and start improving.

And no, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here, I'm just putting it out.

Jump in, Steve. We have this subforum for a reason. :)
 
What about the ndns?

The ndn???...what about the Neandethals? I think that they are entitled to reparations from everyone.....including the ndns. :rolleyes:

n2s
 
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