Roman Gladius?
- Thread starter mogmz
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Triton
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- Aug 8, 2000
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Eric, if I may, you need to ask yourself three questions before you start looking seriously for a gladius:
1) MOST IMPORTANT How much money am I prepared to spend?
2) What am I going to do with it?
3) How important to me is its historical accuracy?
Generally, the custom makers are the most expensive and will give you the best made products. From what I have seen of Al Massey's work, it is just superb and he seems to work well with customers on letting them have some word in the design of the product. But he has a large backlog from what I hear, not surprising, given the quality of his work. Another custom maker, or more precisely, cutler, isd Erik Stevenson at Phoenix Metal Creations http://www.phoenixmetalcreations.co...dland, [url]http://www.vikingmetalworks.com// that makes a very nice and very durable Pompeii style gladius, forged blade and all, for US$297.85.
At a somewhat lower range, there are the Albion Armorer gladii. They have a very complete selection, but remember that their prices do not include scabbards, which are extra. The swords are very nice, indeed. Very historically accurate and well finished as well as durable, from what I have seen and heard, just the smallest notch, if any, below the work of Joe Piella. I am looking at getting one of their Migration Era swords, myself.
At the lowest end of the range, we have Kris Cutlery who make a Pompeii style gladius that is reputed to be extremely durable, but I have to say that the pictures that I have seen of it leave a good bit to be desired from an historical perspective. It sells for $195. We also have Deepeeka, an Indian company with a spotty reputation that has gotten rather better on its Roman line since they brought Dan Peterson, a well-known Roman re-enactor and scholar, in to help them with that line, which run around $150 or so. It looks good, but the one example of it that I have tried, their Koln Spatha reproduction, what they call "Late Roman Spatha", was extremely blade heavy, so much so that felt as if I was swinging an iron club, not a sword. Now this was an early production version of that model and perhaps they have worked the bugs out. I hope so, for it looks so very nice. The third low end supplier, Windlass Steel/Museum Replicas is one with which I would not bother for gladius purposes. Their models do not look at all like the historical originals and, according to what I read in the Roman re-enactor pages, require great work to be made serviceable.
So, if you want a sword for re-enacting purposes, the least expensive decent quality would be the sword from Viking Metal Works, but the Pompeii style is limited to a period from the 2nd third of the 1st Century CE. If you are re-enacting Romans of, say Augustus Caesar's time or of the time of Christ, you would want the Mainz or Fulham style swords, most likely the Mainz. For the period before Augustus, it would be one or another of the various versions of the Gladius Hispaniensis which we think came into use durng the 2nd Punic War. Remember that the Romans never threw anything away* and that the troops had to buy their own equipment, so swords from an earlier period would remain in service for years and decades after a new style was introduced, just as armors and such also did.
If you just want a workable sword for practice cutting, then the Kris might well be your best bet, but it will not be looked upon too well by people at a re-enactment. One glaring problem is that the Romans covered their wooden scabbars with a thin leather cladding while the Kris version has none. It is very handsome, but it is not accurate. Nor is the use of bright brass, the Romans used bronze, and I have never seen an archaeological gladius with the sort of elaborate protruding tang nut that the Kris version uses.
If you seek a wall-hanger, then the Deepeeka versions will do very nicely and will even serve for occasional re-enactments and, if you sharpen them, light practice cutting. But remember that you do get what you pay for.
For gladii other than the Pompeii style model from Viking Metal Works, probably your best balance of quality, accuracy, and durability with price would be Albion. But the problem is that they do not have scabbards in stock for any but the Pompeii style gladius, so that you would have to go the cystom route to obtain a scabbard. I am certain that Triton could help you there, but it is a considerable added cost, especially if you seek the sort of bronze fittings that the Romans used on their scabbards.
Whatever you decide, good luck with your search and your purchase.
1) MOST IMPORTANT How much money am I prepared to spend?
2) What am I going to do with it?
3) How important to me is its historical accuracy?
Generally, the custom makers are the most expensive and will give you the best made products. From what I have seen of Al Massey's work, it is just superb and he seems to work well with customers on letting them have some word in the design of the product. But he has a large backlog from what I hear, not surprising, given the quality of his work. Another custom maker, or more precisely, cutler, isd Erik Stevenson at Phoenix Metal Creations http://www.phoenixmetalcreations.co...dland, [url]http://www.vikingmetalworks.com// that makes a very nice and very durable Pompeii style gladius, forged blade and all, for US$297.85.
At a somewhat lower range, there are the Albion Armorer gladii. They have a very complete selection, but remember that their prices do not include scabbards, which are extra. The swords are very nice, indeed. Very historically accurate and well finished as well as durable, from what I have seen and heard, just the smallest notch, if any, below the work of Joe Piella. I am looking at getting one of their Migration Era swords, myself.
At the lowest end of the range, we have Kris Cutlery who make a Pompeii style gladius that is reputed to be extremely durable, but I have to say that the pictures that I have seen of it leave a good bit to be desired from an historical perspective. It sells for $195. We also have Deepeeka, an Indian company with a spotty reputation that has gotten rather better on its Roman line since they brought Dan Peterson, a well-known Roman re-enactor and scholar, in to help them with that line, which run around $150 or so. It looks good, but the one example of it that I have tried, their Koln Spatha reproduction, what they call "Late Roman Spatha", was extremely blade heavy, so much so that felt as if I was swinging an iron club, not a sword. Now this was an early production version of that model and perhaps they have worked the bugs out. I hope so, for it looks so very nice. The third low end supplier, Windlass Steel/Museum Replicas is one with which I would not bother for gladius purposes. Their models do not look at all like the historical originals and, according to what I read in the Roman re-enactor pages, require great work to be made serviceable.
So, if you want a sword for re-enacting purposes, the least expensive decent quality would be the sword from Viking Metal Works, but the Pompeii style is limited to a period from the 2nd third of the 1st Century CE. If you are re-enacting Romans of, say Augustus Caesar's time or of the time of Christ, you would want the Mainz or Fulham style swords, most likely the Mainz. For the period before Augustus, it would be one or another of the various versions of the Gladius Hispaniensis which we think came into use durng the 2nd Punic War. Remember that the Romans never threw anything away* and that the troops had to buy their own equipment, so swords from an earlier period would remain in service for years and decades after a new style was introduced, just as armors and such also did.
If you just want a workable sword for practice cutting, then the Kris might well be your best bet, but it will not be looked upon too well by people at a re-enactment. One glaring problem is that the Romans covered their wooden scabbars with a thin leather cladding while the Kris version has none. It is very handsome, but it is not accurate. Nor is the use of bright brass, the Romans used bronze, and I have never seen an archaeological gladius with the sort of elaborate protruding tang nut that the Kris version uses.
If you seek a wall-hanger, then the Deepeeka versions will do very nicely and will even serve for occasional re-enactments and, if you sharpen them, light practice cutting. But remember that you do get what you pay for.
For gladii other than the Pompeii style model from Viking Metal Works, probably your best balance of quality, accuracy, and durability with price would be Albion. But the problem is that they do not have scabbards in stock for any but the Pompeii style gladius, so that you would have to go the cystom route to obtain a scabbard. I am certain that Triton could help you there, but it is a considerable added cost, especially if you seek the sort of bronze fittings that the Romans used on their scabbards.
Whatever you decide, good luck with your search and your purchase.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2002
- Messages
- 977
Thanks for the replies all!
FullerH, I do want one that is historically accurate, and am looking to spend under $700 (including scabbard).
What I would like to buy is a mainz or pompeii style gladius that I can 'attack' small saplings and branches without worry of great damage to the blade as well as the handle remaining secure. Dont get me wrong, this will mostly be a wall hanger to show friends, but I will definitely be taking it out every now and then to use/abuse.
You expect me to buy a bad ass sword and not play with it??!!
FullerH, I do want one that is historically accurate, and am looking to spend under $700 (including scabbard).
What I would like to buy is a mainz or pompeii style gladius that I can 'attack' small saplings and branches without worry of great damage to the blade as well as the handle remaining secure. Dont get me wrong, this will mostly be a wall hanger to show friends, but I will definitely be taking it out every now and then to use/abuse.
You expect me to buy a bad ass sword and not play with it??!!
Triton, I guess that's what comes of designing your own gladius and then hanging out with people such as Quintus (Matt Amt of Legio XX) and John Maddox Roberts (he of the wonderful SPQR Roman mystery series and the new alternate history Hannibal's Children). Also, it helps to be addicted to Roman history.
BTW, if you go over to SFI's Ancient Weapons Forum, John M. Roberts posted a couple of months ago on buying the first one of those Migration Era swords from Albion and he was very impressed with it. That's what set me to lusting after it, that and its general good looks, even though it is, in many ways, a repeat of my Roman Riding Sword at considerably more money.
BTW, if you go over to SFI's Ancient Weapons Forum, John M. Roberts posted a couple of months ago on buying the first one of those Migration Era swords from Albion and he was very impressed with it. That's what set me to lusting after it, that and its general good looks, even though it is, in many ways, a repeat of my Roman Riding Sword at considerably more money.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2000
- Messages
- 740
Hugh - the Albion Migration is a great sword. IMHO one of their best. The hilt work is fantastic and the blade's twin fullers are very well done. A great cutter of pool noodles. If you have really big hands it may not be the sword for you as tha handle is on the smaller side. It works just fine for me.
This is virtually the same situation that exists with the TEMPL Roman Riding Sword. My Roman Riding Sword has a grip that is ca. 3 11/16" long while my computations show the grip on the Albion Type D Migration Sword to have a roughly 3 1/2" grip. These are very short grips by modern standards, even shorter, I believe, than most Viking swords. I had some awkwardness with it until I was given some instruction in its use by people who had experience with that sort of sword hilt, part of which is that it was partially intended to be used with a snap, rather like a khukri.
BTW: here is the TEMPL Site showing the Roman Riding Sword. It is a superbly made item and it is more that a good value, even at the newer, higher price, I paid $100 less. Remember that it comes with a scabbard for that $340 + shipping of about $50. The hilt is wood, clad in bronze. The sword was one of the ones fished out of the Nydam Bog in Denmark in the 1890s and is pictured in the book The Sword in Anglo-Saxon England: Its Archaeology and Literature, by Hilda Ellis Davidson with illustrations by Ewart Oakeshott. It also contains an absolutely fascinating appendix on academic attempts to recreate pattern-welded blades.
http://www.templ.net/indexe.php?id=14a
BTW: here is the TEMPL Site showing the Roman Riding Sword. It is a superbly made item and it is more that a good value, even at the newer, higher price, I paid $100 less. Remember that it comes with a scabbard for that $340 + shipping of about $50. The hilt is wood, clad in bronze. The sword was one of the ones fished out of the Nydam Bog in Denmark in the 1890s and is pictured in the book The Sword in Anglo-Saxon England: Its Archaeology and Literature, by Hilda Ellis Davidson with illustrations by Ewart Oakeshott. It also contains an absolutely fascinating appendix on academic attempts to recreate pattern-welded blades.
http://www.templ.net/indexe.php?id=14a