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I remember someone at CRK commenting on that. Saying something about smaller knives getting more popular.
Sebenza 21 vs Inkosi
- Thread starter nickj79
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I remember someone at CRK commenting on that. Saying something about smaller knives getting more popular.
I take back what I said about the Inkosi being too small. I think I was just holding it wrong at first. I think many people who find it too small may be holding it wrong as well. I think it fits just fine in the hand and is actually more comfortable than the Sebenza 21. Inkosi is definitely the superior knife.
For me the Sebenza would be the clear winner if it were smoother. Give it the larger ceramic detent ball and lock ball and it's hands down the bees knees. The inkosi is shorter and not in a good way, has weird ergonomics, and needs locktite (at least mine does, and I'm sure most do if you like to open and close like I do). Buuuuttt.....it is so much smoother than a Sebenza. And when you like to open and close your knives that is a priority.
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Sorry just now saw this as I don't usually get notifications for some reason. I've been carrying the small inkosi almost exclusively for about 8 months now, with exception of the few times I've tried to go back to a small 21 on occasion. I use it for any EDC tasks I have. And yes it opens one-handed with no issues and I've never needed to apply loctite. I've only cleaned it once in 8 months and the action has stayed smooth the entire time. My experience with carrying 21s was not the same and I usually had to clean them at least once a month or so.
If you think about the types of use for a small EDC folding knife, 90% of the time or more you are probably not going to be holding it in a full-on "hammer" grip, so the finger grooves on the small inkosi become a non-issue in practical use. It may feel small if you're just sitting around holding it, but I've never needed mine as an EDC and thought it felt small when I was actually using it for something. Not that the small inkosi can't handle it, but if I know I need something for heavier use I'm probably going to grab a larger knife anyways. As an EDC I want something that can tackle unexpected jobs while I'm out and about, but doesn't take up a bunch of pocket room.
When comparing the inkosi to the 21, either small or large, when fondling or just holding it I initially thought I liked the feel of the non-finger-grooved 21s better. However, after using the inkosis for a long time and going back to the 21, I now find the 21 to feel very "blocky". When comparing small to small, I've grown to prefer to aesthetics of the inkosi as well. I think it's one of the best looking knives on the market.
Wolverine666
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You've never needed to apply Loctite? Is that because the Inkosi comes with Loctite already applied from the factory? And you only need to reapply Loctute when you take the knife apart and clean it? I'm still fuzzy on the Inkosi/Loctite topic.
I just was fiddling with my Inkosi last night and noticed blade play. So tightened pivot just a weeeee little bit and could not open it. Backed it off half a weeee little bit and it was fine. That having to screw with that pivot is why I prefer the 21 bushing.
Wolverine666
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A lot of people seem to really like the Sebenza 21 bushing pivot system.
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It comes with some loctite on it, but it’s removable formula so it kind of stays on even after you’ve unscrewed it and then screwed it back together. Ive disassembled mine a couple times and have not had to reapply any, and the pivot screw has never loosened on me at all.
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I tighten my pivot screw with the blade closed, facing up, pivot end of the knife faced away from me. Watch the blade tip as you slowly tighten the pivot screw and stop tightening as soon as the blade tip is centered. It is a fine line between “tight enough” and “too tight” but it’s pretty easy to nail once you get the hang of it.
ChazzyP
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I have 21s, 25s, and an Inkosi--all larges. I've got a StarTac too. My first CRK was a small 21 with cocobolo inlays, and, while I liked that knife, it was really not a good fit for my hand and I ended up selling/trading it. I rotate my regular carry amongst two of my 21s and two of my 25s. One of my 21s is a pre-Idaho bocote and my drawer-queen and I should carry my Inkosi natural Micarta more, but it's still too pretty for anything but light duty. To me, the 21 with its bushing pivot is the benchmark for CRKs, but I like my 25s and Inkosi for what they are and really no less than my 21s.
My Knife Art 21 CF and 21 Insingo Micarta are my most-carried work users, but I bought someone's safe-queen 25 StarBenza off the Exchange last month and put it in my work rotation the same day.
My next CRK will probably be a KnifeArt Insingo Inkosi CF and that'll go right to work too.
My Knife Art 21 CF and 21 Insingo Micarta are my most-carried work users, but I bought someone's safe-queen 25 StarBenza off the Exchange last month and put it in my work rotation the same day.
My next CRK will probably be a KnifeArt Insingo Inkosi CF and that'll go right to work too.
ChazzyP
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To follow up a little more, I do like the bushing pivot system for purity of design and because you can "set it and forget it" without any consideration for using LocTite. The other nice thing about about the 21's pivot is that it's very "tune-able" to get the action just the way you like it by taking each washer down .01 mm at a time, polishing, and then cranking the pivot screw down all the way.
On the other hand, JBarbaresi's observations on the adjustable pivots are spot on. I generally run my adjustable pivot knives with no LocTite as long as they don't drift short-term. If they move a little after a few days use (or fidget-flipping), I have no problem with the occasional adjustment and usually can find a particular knife's sweet spot quickly. The nice thing about the Inkosi is the floating stop pin which makes for truer adjustment at the pivot. The 25's stop pin screwed in both sides holds the slabs in place close enough to the pivot to complicate/negate easy adjustment there.
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Even though I think the 21 is the more attractive design, my most preferred and carried CRK is my Micarta inlaid Lg Inkosi. I rarely carry my Lg 21. I have never had a Sm Inkosi because I need an expensive smaller knife to fill the role of a dressier, more socially acceptable design, which, IMO, the plain Jane Sm 21 does offer in its clean minimalist design. My Sm PJ21 is my go-to “going out” knife. As far as drop point vs. Insingo, the DP is a more diverse blade shape, it offers a slightly slimmer closed profile & I dislike the swedge grind on the Insingo.
JJ_Colt45
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I guess I haven't held a small Inkosi ... I do own a Small 21 and it's a bit small for me but just like a slip joint it's small for my hand but still very useful and has it's place ... just have to adjust how you hold them.
I own several Large 21s a 25 an Inkosi ... the 25 and Inkosi feel great but I can't say they feel any better then the 21s ... both are comfortable in my hand ... as far as smoothness all my 21s are very smooth to open ... the Inkosi is a bit easier to open than the 25 but that's the pocket clip position and I learned how to open my 25 so I don't notice that anymore even.
I haven't worn the parts on a 21 ... 25 ... or Inkosi enough to say the bushing or the ceramic ball has an advantage one over the other ... maybe there is one but I haven't experienced either being "better"
I think the size of someones hand and how they hold a knife has alot more to do with if they would like the 21 or the Inkosi better ... both Larges fit my hand fine ... I'm guessing from seeing comparisions that a Small Inkosi would be less comfortable in my hand because of the size and my hand ...
So I think for me I like both the 21 and Inkosi and 25 for that matter ... as long as they are the Large ... for a Small it would be the 21 or a Mnandi hands down.
I own several Large 21s a 25 an Inkosi ... the 25 and Inkosi feel great but I can't say they feel any better then the 21s ... both are comfortable in my hand ... as far as smoothness all my 21s are very smooth to open ... the Inkosi is a bit easier to open than the 25 but that's the pocket clip position and I learned how to open my 25 so I don't notice that anymore even.
I haven't worn the parts on a 21 ... 25 ... or Inkosi enough to say the bushing or the ceramic ball has an advantage one over the other ... maybe there is one but I haven't experienced either being "better"
I think the size of someones hand and how they hold a knife has alot more to do with if they would like the 21 or the Inkosi better ... both Larges fit my hand fine ... I'm guessing from seeing comparisions that a Small Inkosi would be less comfortable in my hand because of the size and my hand ...
So I think for me I like both the 21 and Inkosi and 25 for that matter ... as long as they are the Large ... for a Small it would be the 21 or a Mnandi hands down.
Me, I am a knife flicker and do it obsessively in between actually needing to use them, and hands down I prefer the 21. I also prefer the thinner blade stock. It makes the knife lighter and imo there is not enough difference strength-wise to matter for what these knives are for.
Also, I prefer the size of the cut out on the 21. It is larger allowing better thumb positioning on stud and better access to the lock bar to close. On the Inkosi there is just enough room to get my thumb on the edge of the lock bar whereas on the 21 I can get my thumb on some of the flat as well. This again decreases thumb fatigue over time. Less pressure on that edge.
If they would just use thinner blade stock and increase the thumb cutout on the Inkosi then I would say that would be the perfect knife for me. I have never seen a knife job that the 21 stock is not sufficient. Anyone actually needing thicker than that, imo, is just using the wrong tool for the job. Neither should be pry bars nor batonning blades.
I have an Inkosi, and love it, but all future CRK’s I think will be 21’s.
Also, I prefer the size of the cut out on the 21. It is larger allowing better thumb positioning on stud and better access to the lock bar to close. On the Inkosi there is just enough room to get my thumb on the edge of the lock bar whereas on the 21 I can get my thumb on some of the flat as well. This again decreases thumb fatigue over time. Less pressure on that edge.
If they would just use thinner blade stock and increase the thumb cutout on the Inkosi then I would say that would be the perfect knife for me. I have never seen a knife job that the 21 stock is not sufficient. Anyone actually needing thicker than that, imo, is just using the wrong tool for the job. Neither should be pry bars nor batonning blades.
I have an Inkosi, and love it, but all future CRK’s I think will be 21’s.
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