Squaring the end of a main line RR RAIL

O

Ome108

Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
224
Hi Guys,
I have a 12" long and 28" long piece of RR RAIL
That is 6" wide at base and 7" high.
Weight is 3.77 lbs per INCH.
ONE IS 43lb and another is 106 lbs.
my question is :
I am setting them up as vertical anvils,
And did not want to cement them in a bucket, but make a stand out of 2 by 12 treated lumber and covered with 1/4" ply so rail does not contact the ACQ lumber.
Both pieces are all over the place at each end.
What is the best way to square up the ends clean, so will stand even.
Will a shim work of 1/4" to correct it or do I have to cut a slice off.
What size dewault cold portable chop saw will do it.
Thanks,
Jon
 
Jon,
If I am understand this correctly you want the rail part to be vertical? Why? Remember that gravity sucks and you want it to help your hammer swings down onto the top of the RR tie to use it as a anvil.

The chop saw that has a deep enough throat to cut enough of one side so you can roll it over and complete the cut from the other side if need be.


I recently purchased this model and am very pleased with it and a Swag table in my bench vise.
DEWALT DWM120K 10 Amp 5-Inch Deep Cut Portable Band Saw Kit Amazon was the best price I found.

http://www.swagoffroad.com/SWAG-V10-Portaband-Table-_p_64.html They also make a free standing table to bolt the saw into.
 
Hi Laurence,
How have you been. I hope you are doing better.
Tryed it both ways and vertical is so much more metal mass under the hammer, works much better than horizontal.
Do you think I can get a really square cut on the cold saw.
This is a carbide or diamond tipped blade?
Thanks,
Jon
 
Horizontal will work great and give you more work area if you have a solid weight under it.

You want a Bimetal Blade. Lennox, Morse or Starrett are the brands I have the most longevity with cutting ferrous metals. Blade steel.

You can take the RR ties to a local machinist and have them surface ground to a true flat on top and the ends.
 
Thanks Laurence,
I am going to find a machine shop and atleast have them squared on ends.
Even though it is a small area, when I put some heavy steel under it horizontally, it was not as solid as in vertical position.
I already made a base for it, held by heavy electric ties, so o can bring the 12 " piece inside.
I am interested in seeing the difference in various heights of RR rail set up to about 30" off the ground.
The third piece is new unused 39" at 136lbs.
That one will go in the ground 9" and be supported by a fence post cemented in ground on 3 sides.
Is there anything I could do to protect the part underground?
Will put a large garbage pail over it when not using, or build a wooden cover.
Thanks,
Jon
 
I wouldn't worry about the part under ground. It will rust through in about 1000 years maybe?

If you put the RR tie horizontally and properly secure it to a large tree stump it will work fine. I don't see how you are going to have enough surface area to forge on the end of a RR tie?
 
Thanks Laurence,
I read about this in the Anvilfire website.
They compare the area at the end of a RR rail is like the "sweet spot"
On their anvil.
Just for a small knife, and I set it a bit higher to save my back.
I am waiting for a piece of 8" round RR TRAIN AXLE, much heavier and will give 8" of space to forge.
This will just be temporary , until I get my feet wet and get serious and buy a nice new anvil.
Thanks,
Jon
 
Jon,

I've fabricated an anvil according to Jock Dempsy's (anvilfire) directives, and it worked out great for me... Following any one of the examples he provides will serve you well... I'm still a bit confused as to what you're trying to ask and accomplish though...? I'd say any angle grinder with a cuttoff wheel will accomplish a straight cut... Grind everything flush as possible and use a flap-wheel to finish her up.... Furthermore, I'd harden it bringing it up to red hot and quenching it in oil. That work-hardening advice you will hear elsewhere (peening it with a ball-peen) is rubbish in comparison to quenching it. From my understanding it's composition is similar to 1084 with added manganese so when you're done using it as an anvil, you know exactly what to do with it... :D
 
A 6 x 48" belt grinder should be able to clean up the face quite easily if you are starting with something somewhat flat.
 
SinePari said:
Jon,

I've fabricated an anvil according to Jock Dempsy's (anvilfire) directives, and it worked out great for me... Following any one of the examples he provides will serve you well... I'm still a bit confused as to what you're trying to ask and accomplish though...? I'd say any angle grinder with a cuttoff wheel will accomplish a straight cut... Grind everything flush as possible and use a flap-wheel to finish her up.... Furthermore, I'd harden it bringing it up to red hot and quenching it in oil. That work-hardening advice you will hear elsewhere (peening it with a ball-peen) is rubbish in comparison to quenching it. From my understanding it's composition is similar to 1084 with added manganese so when you're done using it as an anvil, you know exactly what to do with it... :D
Click to expand...
Thanks,
I do not feel that I can freehand grind those ends flat, and I was told the abrasive wheels bend a bit and ruin the cut.
That is how they were originally cut.
I would like a guide of some sort , and that is why I thought a portable 14" cold saw, but the size is 7" high.
Thanks
Jon
 
PT Doc said:
A 6 x 48" belt grinder should be able to clean up the face quite easily if you are starting with something somewhat flat.
Click to expand...

Thanks,
Great idea, but the weight will be a problem, 43, 106, and 136lbs.
They are 12", 28" and 39" respectively.
Even if I stand the sander vertically, how could I keep it square to the table and sander.
I only have a delta combo sander with a cSt aluminum table.
Will that handle the weight?
If not, I do not weld, will supporting the stand with a couple of 2 by 4's under table to cement floor work?
Thank You,
Jon
 
Ome108 said:
Thanks,
I do not feel that I can freehand grind those ends flat, and I was told the abrasive wheels bend a bit and ruin the cut.
That is how they were originally cut.
I would like a guide of some sort , and that is why I thought a portable 14" cold saw, but the size is 7" high.
Thanks
Jon
Click to expand...

I was tracking like a VCR up until your reply....

I'm now lost when it comes to exactly what you want to accomplish... :confused:

If you are looking for an exact 180 degree forging surface, than the only way that you will be able to attain that is via a machine shop.

Cut-off wheels bending and ruining the cut??? Not being able to freehand grind the ends flat???

We're talking about the end of a railroad rail here, right? ... Even the heaviest sections of rail (on end) offer an entire 5 square inches of real estate to hammer upon... I dare say that Michael J. Fox on a bad day could freehand grind that flat with an angle grinder.... Just lightly rest the grinder wheel upon the surface, ever so lightly, and allow it to skate upon the surface... The area will eventually be as flat as the grinding wheel that you're applying.


Why it is you want such a precise flat forging surface when a "relatively flat" surface with radiused edges will perform every bit as good a forging surface as any?

Unless you are some kind of Samurai 10th degree Blacksmith that can bend the laws of physics; a precise flat anvil, with a flat-dressed hammer, with a dead flat hammer blow does not translate into a precisely flat end product... It's just not the way steel behaves in real life... On paper, having not experienced the way hot steel moves under the hammer, I can see why you might believe you need such precision... But you're gonna have to trust me and the multiple millions of smiths before me, stretching back in time to the first person to shape hot metal... There are smiths out there that forge on 8 lb. mushroomed sledgehammer heads that make my best work look like a turd playing leapfrog with a shiny rock... It's not the anvil: it's the person behind the hammer.

Forgive me for being blunt, and if I've offended you, understand I have no intention of doing so.... The LAST thing I intend to do is prevent you from accomplishing your intended end product... However, the first thing I do intend to instill in you via this lengthy reply is that you will better yourself 10 fold as a smith when you engage in the act of physically smithing, everything else leading up to that moment is a distraction. All these topics you've posted thus far are great, but I'll be the first to say that you're not doing yourself any favors by imagining, planing, basking in the thought of, etc...

Stacy, mods, ... I've gone against my previous rule of not posting when exhausted... I'm loopy and incoherent at the moment so feel free to redact anything odd, abstract, abrasive, etc... good night.
 
SinePari said:
I was tracking like a VCR up until your reply....

I'm now lost when it comes to exactly what you want to accomplish... :confused:

If you are looking for an exact 180 degree forging surface, than the only way that you will be able to attain that is via a machine shop.

Cut-off wheels bending and ruining the cut??? Not being able to freehand grind the ends flat???

We're talking about the end of a railroad rail here, right? ... Even the heaviest sections of rail (on end) offer an entire 5 square inches of real estate to hammer upon... I dare say that Michael J. Fox on a bad day could freehand grind that flat with an angle grinder.... Just lightly rest the grinder wheel upon the surface, ever so lightly, and allow it to skate upon the surface... The area will eventually be as flat as the grinding wheel that you're applying.


Why it is you want such a precise flat forging surface when a "relatively flat" surface with radiused edges will perform every bit as good a forging surface as any?

Unless you are some kind of Samurai 10th degree Blacksmith that can bend the laws of physics; a precise flat anvil, with a flat-dressed hammer, with a dead flat hammer blow does not translate into a precisely flat end product... It's just not the way steel behaves in real life... On paper, having not experienced the way hot steel moves under the hammer, I can see why you might believe you need such precision... But you're gonna have to trust me and the multiple millions of smiths before me, stretching back in time to the first person to shape hot metal... There are smiths out there that forge on 8 lb. mushroomed sledgehammer heads that make my best work look like a turd playing leapfrog with a shiny rock... It's not the anvil: it's the person behind the hammer.

Forgive me for being blunt, and if I've offended you, understand I have no intention of doing so.... The LAST thing I intend to do is prevent you from accomplishing your intended end product... However, the first thing I do intend to instill in you via this lengthy reply is that you will better yourself 10 fold as a smith when you engage in the act of physically smithing, everything else leading up to that moment is a distraction. All these topics you've posted thus far are great, but I'll be the first to say that you're not doing yourself any favors by imagining, planing, basking in the thought of, etc...

Stacy, mods, ... I've gone against my previous rule of not posting when exhausted... I'm loopy and incoherent at the moment so feel free to redact anything odd, abstract, abrasive, etc... good night.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your time,
I thought it had to be dead flat under the hammer, my bad.
I also thought Shimming it would not be sturdy enough.
It is mounted on a 2by 12 stand lime the drawing on anvilfire.
I guess i would need a steel plate for rail to sit on and then shim with 1018?
If that works, I wont need to grind.
If i need to grind, do i use the thicker wheels for grinding or thin.
I have sait wheels and dewalt thin wheels I use to cut ss bar

Thank you for you wisdom
 
I think a photo would solve 1000 questions here. Please take a shot of your rail and stand for us to see.
 
I started out with a 2' piece of rail that had been machine cut on both ends, so it worked great as a vertical anvil. I disagree with the guys who say horizontal is better, but I guess it's whatever floats your boat. You only need a couple square inches of surface to work on.

Stacy's right, how "ugly" is the end? Dressing it up with surface-grinding wheels (thick) in an angle grinder should work fine, just take your time. You have a LOT of steel to work with.
 
I am trying to upload with Flicker. I read the instructions that Stacy sent to me, thanks again.
I just am not having any luck posting.
The other forum is staight forward, right from the forum itself, no third party needed.
I will keep trying. I just spent 30 min and got nothing done.
I only use computers when it is easy and staigjt forward, this is not.
Sorry, no photos until forum accepts directly
jon
 
Last edited:
Of course, if you were a paying member, you could upload directly to the server :)

email me a photo and lets see what is going on.

Vertical RR anvils work fine. You only need a small surface to make a knife on. As said, the mass is directly under the hammer, so efficiency is good. With a strong base, it is a great entry level anvil.
I also think a horizontal RR anvil, is a good thing to have around, too.
 
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