Hello all. It seems there are some people here that like tactical knives and some that do not. I'm going to make some observation's that may let everyone know why. See I think that the knifenuts that are more user oriented like tactical knives more than show knives, for a few resons. What made me think of this was last weekend, a friend of mine got a new 10" bowie, he loves it, its got a 1095 blade mirror polished and some kinda wood handle thats poilished to a shine as well. It looks amazing. He got it as a user knife. However he is scared to use it beacuse he doent want to get any scrathes on it? what gives, whats the point in having a knife if you dont use it? if you are scared to use it how can you have any trust in it? But not that i can blame him, the handle is so shiny and slippery that if you grabed it with wet hands the only thing you would be cutting is yourself. Thats why i think tactical knives are geared more towards useres, take my SRK for example, i use the hell out this knive, i dont care if it get's beat up, It doesnt show wear as much anyways, the powder coat does a great job of prtecting it from scrathes, and the Kraton handle provide excellent Grip in any conditions, wet/dry or even snow/ice. I know most of you dont like kraton handles but I wouldnt want anything else in my hand if it was wet. I have pried skids apart, pried open metal crates, even once busted open a padlock with it, it still looks almost as good as when it came out of the box, and i havent had to do any upkeep on it except sharpen it once, I would like to see you do that with a mirror polished blade and then tell me what it looks like after. So what do you guys think? you think tactical knives were more designed to be used that other non-tactical knives? This doesnt appy to pure collectors, people that wont use a knife anyways, but to people that will always use there knives to the max, i think most people like this will usualy be more happy with a tactical knife. What is your guys input on this?
Tactical knives VS Show knives
- Thread starter Rifter
- Start date
I don't think its nearly as black and white as you make the choice appear. Many very very expensive custom folders that are quite stunning to look at get used. True they probably do not get abused. Same goes for many high end fixed blades. Wood handles do not have to be slippery. It depends upon the grip design. I don't give two hoots for those Kraton rubber ones that wear out on cold steel products. They are not the answer to grip problems. Design is. Polished blades can be repolished if needed. Using them does not seem to bother everybody. I think a lot of people like tactical knives because it makes them feel well.........tactical. Plus the good ones do have a lot of utility built into them. They will not likely be remembered as the crowning glory of knifemaking however. I guess though if I had a 2000 dollar high end bowie by a name maker, I might defer to my CRK Project 1 for some dirty woodsy job. It depends if I bought it as an example of a famous makers art or to use. But price alone would never be the determining factor. I am amazed at the number of people that will carry a 600-1000 dollar handgun or 2000 dollar rifle or shotgun hunting and shy from using an expensive blade. I don't think people who buy tactical blades use them anymore than those that don't.
You make some good points, You are making me think more. I still think though that in general tactical knives were designed more as users/abusers than your average non-tactical knife. Granted you can abuse a non tactical knife but it takes time to re-finish the blade or sand scrathes out, with a good powder coat all you need to do is wipe it clean.
I don't really think it's "tactical vs show" as much as it's "expensive vs inexpensive". I think price is the real determining factor for how much use and abuse a knife will receive.
If you have a $400.00 custom made knife, you're not going to use it the same way that you use a Buck, Schrade, Camillus, or CRKT knife.
The simple reason is that you can easily (and rather cheaply) replace those knives if you damage them beyond repair.
Just my opinion,
Allen.
If you have a $400.00 custom made knife, you're not going to use it the same way that you use a Buck, Schrade, Camillus, or CRKT knife.
The simple reason is that you can easily (and rather cheaply) replace those knives if you damage them beyond repair.
Just my opinion,
Allen.
The other side of that argument is that a $400 custom would be built to take much more abuse than a Factory knife, what would you trust more, you factory $50 knife with mid grade AUS 6, 420HC type steel, or your $400 custom with D2, s90V, etc. And im not even getting into the heat treating differnces between a custom and a production 
I would trust a knife with ANY STEEL heat treated by Paul Bos over even a D2 production knife. But you are right, to a point money does have a factor. This is a great argument, keep the input coming guys!
I would trust a knife with ANY STEEL heat treated by Paul Bos over even a D2 production knife. But you are right, to a point money does have a factor. This is a great argument, keep the input coming guys!
I have also noticed that many who carry/use very expensive firearms and fishng outfits carry very cheap knives.
When I buy a knife, I look at the design for the intended use. I also look for grip versatility. If the grip is designed solely for comfort in the sabre grip, it lacks versatility. Most of the so called "ergonomic" designs are greatly lacking in overall versatility.
Paul
When I buy a knife, I look at the design for the intended use. I also look for grip versatility. If the grip is designed solely for comfort in the sabre grip, it lacks versatility. Most of the so called "ergonomic" designs are greatly lacking in overall versatility.
Paul
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2000
- Messages
- 586
Well, ya know, after spending all that money on 'spensive firearms and fishin' duds, we's gots to sharpen rocks for cuttin'. No dough left for them thar fancy boowies...
Seriously, though. I feel that one more point in the tactical v. non-tactical argument is that tacticals are very much marketed as "beaters," "users" or "hard-use" knives in both look and in advertisments. So, they are aimed to make us think that these are the knives to get if they need to be used and dirty.
However, we here....and I emphasize here(i.e.-bf, kf, etc) , understand that a knife can be a looker and still a hard user. It doesn't need the newest hard coating or a bead-blasted blade to be suitable to use. However, many outside of us KnifeKnuts buy a knife based on what they are told by the salesman, or the ads, or their buddies who bought based on same things.
Nothing wrong with that. You buy what you like, and what you believe is quality.
I'll say this:
A "user" knife should be decided upon by funtion first. Then form. A good user is a good user is a good user.
Seriously, though. I feel that one more point in the tactical v. non-tactical argument is that tacticals are very much marketed as "beaters," "users" or "hard-use" knives in both look and in advertisments. So, they are aimed to make us think that these are the knives to get if they need to be used and dirty.
However, we here....and I emphasize here(i.e.-bf, kf, etc) , understand that a knife can be a looker and still a hard user. It doesn't need the newest hard coating or a bead-blasted blade to be suitable to use. However, many outside of us KnifeKnuts buy a knife based on what they are told by the salesman, or the ads, or their buddies who bought based on same things.
Nothing wrong with that. You buy what you like, and what you believe is quality.
I'll say this:
A "user" knife should be decided upon by funtion first. Then form. A good user is a good user is a good user.
I totally disagree that an expensive custom knife can take more abuse than a 50.00 factory knife. And there's no reason to think that a AUS6 50.00 knife would be untrust worthy or fail you in any way.
This kind of logic just does'nt hold true in real life.
Knives like the Buck 110, the Schrade LB7, Camillus EDC, CRKT M16, and the Spyderco Endura are all rather inexpensive knives but they are just as reliable as any custom knife and will take everyday usage for years and years and years.
I think the reason for the expense of customs is mostly because of the uniqueness, the attention to details, and usually expensive materials (like mother-of-pearl, exotic wood, G-10, exotic steels), and the man-hours the maker puts into his product. All of that adds up and costs more but it does'nt always make a better performing knife.
Even if your knife is a 420HC Buck, if you keep it sharp, it's going to cut. And if you buy a VG-10 Spyderco and you never sharpen it, it's going to let you down when you need it the most.
Allen.
This kind of logic just does'nt hold true in real life.
Knives like the Buck 110, the Schrade LB7, Camillus EDC, CRKT M16, and the Spyderco Endura are all rather inexpensive knives but they are just as reliable as any custom knife and will take everyday usage for years and years and years.
I think the reason for the expense of customs is mostly because of the uniqueness, the attention to details, and usually expensive materials (like mother-of-pearl, exotic wood, G-10, exotic steels), and the man-hours the maker puts into his product. All of that adds up and costs more but it does'nt always make a better performing knife.
Even if your knife is a 420HC Buck, if you keep it sharp, it's going to cut. And if you buy a VG-10 Spyderco and you never sharpen it, it's going to let you down when you need it the most.
Allen.
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2000
- Messages
- 6,104
I carried a AUS-6 knife a buddy gave me to work for a while. Had to sharpen it every day. Break down a couple of large containers, cut some crusty hose...it's dull before you're done. I've let my 420V folder go for over three weeks without touching it up, and it was still scrape shaving hair. Yeah, the 420V would outlast the other blade by a long, long shot.
What I can't figure out is why people talk about buying an expensive knife with a premium bladesteel, and carrying a cheapie to use. I think of better steel as a way of getting more use out of the knife, not a reason not to use it(?) That's kinda confusing.
Use is one thing...abuse is another. I'd feel pretty dumb snapping the blade on a $450 knife. I'll cut just about anything with my EDC, but I stop short of prying with it, cutting heavy wiring, tearing hose clamps off with it, or using it for a field expedient screwdriver. That's what the Leatherman is for. Also got a 710HS-great knife-that I carry sometimes, and will do all that other stuff with, since I don't care if I tear it up.
Original topic:
Have to agree with what Rifter said, in that I, personally, would prefer a "tactical" knife (by my definition-a "come what may" knife, that can handle a wide variety of tasks, and survive considerable abuse) over one that's optimized for cutting performance. If I was skinning alot of game, doing lots of food prep, or just opening the mail, it would be different...but that's not what I'm doing
I think a lot depends on just how fat your wallet is. I have several other hobbies that require considerable spending, besides knives, ie shooting, boating, golf, wood-working...drinking . So I've kinda put a $200 limit on my EDC. However, if knives were like guns (recalling the earlier analogy), I'd probably include a Mayo TNT among my EDC's. But knives, because of their nature, do wear out eventually, and can easily be lost. And, given my middle-class standing, it's difficult to withstand a $700 beating, when a $200 MT will perform comparably. On the other hand, I've regularly used my two Belgium Brownings for the past 35yrs., only to watch their value grow a bunch. Actually, all my guns get used, and with maybe one or two exceptions, each is worth more now than what I paid for it. These are just things I,ve got to consider should I ever have to cash in my
chips.
To answer the original Q, I'd say yes, tacticals were designed for hard use, and buy the highest quality tactical knives that you can afford to subject to hard use, and not be concerned of the consequential loss of value.
. So I've kinda put a $200 limit on my EDC. However, if knives were like guns (recalling the earlier analogy), I'd probably include a Mayo TNT among my EDC's. But knives, because of their nature, do wear out eventually, and can easily be lost. And, given my middle-class standing, it's difficult to withstand a $700 beating, when a $200 MT will perform comparably. On the other hand, I've regularly used my two Belgium Brownings for the past 35yrs., only to watch their value grow a bunch. Actually, all my guns get used, and with maybe one or two exceptions, each is worth more now than what I paid for it. These are just things I,ve got to consider should I ever have to cash in my chips.
To answer the original Q, I'd say yes, tacticals were designed for hard use, and buy the highest quality tactical knives that you can afford to subject to hard use, and not be concerned of the consequential loss of value.
I had to think long and hard before i even touched this one, in short, are you nuts? I have a 6M knife, a M16-03Z, I work as a shipper reciever, i cut boxes for a living, when i used my M16 i had to take a rod from my 204 to work with me to touch up the blade during the day cause it would wear out that fast. How can you say a Custom with say 420V or D2 or S90V would wear out that fast? This is what i do at work, with a knife, I cut open boxes, I cut down boxes, I cut rope/plastic straps. I pry open crates, I break down crates(as in pry Apart, I also pry apart any really damaged skids we get in) Now I do this usualy with my 2nd EDC which rotates between my CS SRK and a 4" Fixed blade custom. I usualy take the custom, why, beacuse I trust it more, I dont need to sharpen it as often, and its strong as steel can get. Do I think its more capeable, yes i do, why is beacuse I KNOW it was made right, its got L6 Steel heat treated by paul Bos, i know it will stand up to punishment, the SRK is production, its capeable, but i still trust the custom more.. Neither is a show knife, they are both workers, the custom has a black powder coat and blue/black G10, its not a show off knife, just a custom to do work with that i know can take ANYTHING i through at it, Could the same blade in AUS6 do the same thing? hell no, i have chipped my M16 blade doing tasks half as hard as what i put my custom through. I dont know what you mean by any cheap knife being able to take every day usage for years but im willing to bet money that withing 3 years my M16 will be dead, its not looking too good now.
This is true to a point, It will still cut, just not nearly as long or well, If you like cutting with a dull knife go ahead and get a 420HC knife, In my job it would be dull by 10:00 in the morning and you would be screwed for the rest of the day cutting with a butter knife. I have taken my PCKS Buck 110 with BG-42 blade to work and it was still shaving sharp after 3 days of cutting boxes. There is just no comparison to production/custom.
Now this whole post was kinda off topic, but just goes to show you can have a expensive Tactical knife(like my 4" fixed blade custom) and abuse it, just cause its expensive doesnt make it a show knife.
I agree that the tactical knife is made/marketed more for beating than general use. But are we all missing the point? A knife is designed to cut things. A knife such as SRK (Just one example),can be pressed into extreme situations because of its design. This doesn't mean you can or should call on your knife to perform in this manner day in and day out. Buy a crow bar to pry things open. My $.02
I use whatever tool i Feel i can use best for the job, a Knife is much better at prying apart 2 pieces of wood that a crowbar beacuse you can jam the tip in to start it off, plus you can use it to cut the rope/straps off at the same time, you dont have to switch tools, what would you rather do, carry one 4-6" fixed blade and a 15+" crowbar with you or just a knife? Its also better for digging out stubborn nails.
Maybe I was'nt too clear the first time, what I'm saying is that knives like the Buck 110 have been used by ranchers, bikers, soldiers, mechanics, pilots, ect...for years and years and it is just as reliable as any custom knife. It's heavy and hard to open with one hand, and you do have to sharpen it more often, but you can count on it. If it was unreliable or did'nt work for tough use it would have disappeared along time ago. But it is still one of Bucks best sellers.
Some folks say they would'nt trust their life to an inexpensive factory knife...but if you think about it, knives made by Ka-Bar, Ontario, and Camillus have been battle-proven by American Marines, Sailors, Airmen, and Soldiers all around the world. The famous Marine Corps Ka-Bar is not an expensive custom-built knife but many Marines will own no other knife.
My Dad has a Boker pocket-knife that he has been using for over thirty years. I have a Victorinox Supertinker that is about fifteen years old and it has seen tons of use and it's still going strong.
The fact is that there really is'nt a lot of lousy knives being made in the USA.
So what I'm trying to say is that I think some of us knife-nuts (myself included) get a little carried away always searching for that "perfect knife". I'm perfectly happy with most of the knives I have right now but I'm still considering a few new ones (the Lum Chinese and the Massad Ayoob specificly). I just think it's funny when I hear that a knife that worked great for the last thirty years is now obsolete, or can't handle the work-load, or will wear out in five years, ect...
Cheers,
Allen.
Some folks say they would'nt trust their life to an inexpensive factory knife...but if you think about it, knives made by Ka-Bar, Ontario, and Camillus have been battle-proven by American Marines, Sailors, Airmen, and Soldiers all around the world. The famous Marine Corps Ka-Bar is not an expensive custom-built knife but many Marines will own no other knife.
My Dad has a Boker pocket-knife that he has been using for over thirty years. I have a Victorinox Supertinker that is about fifteen years old and it has seen tons of use and it's still going strong.
The fact is that there really is'nt a lot of lousy knives being made in the USA.
So what I'm trying to say is that I think some of us knife-nuts (myself included) get a little carried away always searching for that "perfect knife". I'm perfectly happy with most of the knives I have right now but I'm still considering a few new ones (the Lum Chinese and the Massad Ayoob specificly). I just think it's funny when I hear that a knife that worked great for the last thirty years is now obsolete, or can't handle the work-load, or will wear out in five years, ect...
Cheers,
Allen.
Thanks for the clairification, I know what you mean about the Buck 110, i love mine, i just got the PCKS BG-42 beacuse in my line of work i needed the better steel. It is a solid design and a good knife. I also have a Ka-Bar and I WOULD NOT trust my life to that, I have herd of people breaking them rather easy, At the guard where the blade narrows it is really weak, and prone to snapping. All they need to do to fix it is make the steel thick strait to the guard but they havent yet. Which is why i replaced it with a Ka-bar 1245 Tanto blade design, it seems to be more solid.
and I WOULD NOT trust my life to that, I have herd of people breaking them rather easy, At the guard where the blade narrows it is really weak, and prone to snapping. All they need to do to fix it is make the steel thick strait to the guard but they havent yet. Which is why i replaced it with a Ka-bar 1245 Tanto blade design, it seems to be more solid.