The Schrade connection

textoothpk

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LT, some of you others, may or may not find this interesting. Here we go... Years ago, I found a knife I really, really liked. It was at a knife show, and it near perfectly matched the drawing I was carrying around in my wallet, hoping to someday find a maker to produce me what I considered the perfect deer hunting knife. Dropped point and a handle that made it easy to use the knife, blade up, for unzipping a deer without puncturing the gut. Carbon steel, so I could quickly sharpen it afield. Thick enough to rip through the upper breast bone and hammer through the pelvic bone. And it was only $10. I got a chance to try it out that fall, and as I thought, it worked perfectly. It is the bottom knife in this pic:
http://villagephotos.com/viewimage.asp?id_=7434946

The knife was made by Imperial, back when they were IKCO, and it was/is quite a cut above most of the other knives Imperial was making at the time. Sort of the premier lineup, more or less. They were called the 'Frontier' line. And as I learned more, I found the knives had been made for Imperial by Camillus (Camillus is probably the biggest contract knife manufactor, or perhaps Schrade is). I kept buying the
knives, ebay making it even easier. Although I collect Toothpicks, these frontiers were a nice little cheap additional knife to collect and research. I began to put together the numbering system, and that is what, finally, brought me to this site, where Tim Faust gave me a little more help, although I found out it was that nice woman there at Schrade... what is her name, LT??? I have since added some old Frontier catalogs that made it all easier.

The Frontier lineup was Imperial's last harrah. Brought out in 1977, it only lasted until 1984-5 when Imperial joined with Schrade. They put on a neat little 'Powderhorn' shield, and tang mark on every knife handled in Delrin. It was quite a line up as well. Lots and lots of traditional patterns in Yellow and black smooth delrin and 'jigged faux bone' delrin.

I found a couple of the dealer counter displays, and that made the collecting even more fun. I have one of each Frontier line up... the tradional folders and the 'new' Buck 110 clone line up of lockbacks.

Lots more I could write about these, but this one knife in particular is what makes the connection to Schrade. Here it is:
http://villagephotos.com/viewimage.asp?id_=7434925

One of the Schrade Scrimshaws... but using one of the older Frontier tang marked blades. Of course the handles and all dimensions of the stockman pattern knife is identical to other 'Schrade tang marked' Scrimshaw knives and other stockmans marked Frontiers. I deduce that Schrade liked the knife enough to take it up as one of their own.

Imperial also made a lineup of Frontiers called the 'Double Eagles'... all lockbacks and fixed blades, stainless steel and very nice wood handles, without the 'Powderhorn' shield.

As I write, it's a fun, cheap little sideline to my main collecing interest. And I find plenty of them still brand new in the box and I enjoy giving them as gifts. Just thought I'd toss it in here as there is an obvious Schrade connection. Any thoughts on what I have found, written, LT?

And a question for our LT... The catalogs show scenes from the factory where the knives were built... going on and on about the quality and such. Of course I am convinced these were made at the Camillus factory, so which factory is shown in the photos?

Phil
 
Phil,

I'd love to see the picts but we need a login and password to see em?

My frontier is a beauty!

Thanks
Larry
 
I set up a login and password and was able to view the 2 picts.
 
Hmm.. I never used Villagephotos for image hosting before. Tomorrow I will put the photos into my Sony Image Station so no one will have to open an account to view the shots.

We should do a forum discussion of best places for image hosting sometime. Or, we should all dig deep in our pockets and upgrade our memberships!

Phil
 
Debbie Chase is the ladys name. She knows more about schrade than we will ever want to know. I also cannot get the pictures and I have an account but have not used it in so long I cannot remember how to get on the site and they do not seem to have my info. Anyway if I get to see a pic I will be happy to take a shot at the factory. They are a nice line in fact all of the knives you mention are certainly able users and are great collectables at a good price. I just bought 4 Schrade Cut Co's today I feel I did well at around 200 it is only going to get worse. Oh well you can't take it with you at least that is what they say. I always liked the powder horn shield and the double eagles were excellent as well. Many of the knives in that line will be the kissing cousins of the similiar models and styles made by Schrade. By the way good PUN " A cut above". It is none of my business how anyone spends there money but I finally got fed up with attempting to find places to host pictures and when that one big outfit I think it was photopoint went under taking all my pics with them I said the heck with it and just paid the 20 dollar upgrade to post right on this site. LT
 
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288035947&congratulation_page=Y

You're probably right, LT, about taking the big step and spending $20. Perhaps in the mean time, you could look at the photos and tell me, if it is clear, are those from any Schrade factory you've been in?

I apologize to all my friends here for going awol for a while. Let's see... had a computer crash, a change in servers and been listing dozens of knives on ebay. Sorry excuse for bad manners, I know.

Phil
 
This seems to be another outfit I have to join. Could you just send me a jpeg attachment on an email lt632ret@frontiernet.net also what is your ebay seller name I would like to see what you are selling. On my email the first character is a small L not the numeral ONE. I am sorry for the confusion actually now I would like to see the pic you have my curiosity up. LT
 
Larry V was good enough to forward the pics. It looks to me as though that is the present Schrade factory in Ellenville. It is hard to tell but, that is my opinion ( and you know what opinions are worth., By the way Schrade moved to that factory from the original site in Ellenville. That factory was originally the Channel Master TV antenna company. I used to date the owners daughter for her 16th birthday her father bought her a new caddy convertible which she drove me home from school in the first day she owned it. On her 18th birthday her parents gave her a one year cruise ect trip around the world so that she could learn more about the world ( which she would need to know if she was going to someday take over the company ). She was a wonderful person who had a penchant for strays ( such as myself.) She past away in a violent early death which was none of her fault and it was a great loss. There I go again it must be getting late when I start babbling. Anyway down the road I will confirm the plant I have an 75 year old friend who I believe made those Frontiers when he worked in Ellenville. Some could have been made by camillus Albert Baer had more than a passing interest in that company as well as Schrade and imperial in fact I believe his relatives still own all or part of it. He was a giant in the industry and his hand touched the entire field. I wish he was around now we could use a man like him to straighten out what is happening with the american cutlery industry. LT
 
When it comes to Schrade you can dang well believe it. Ms. Chase is probably one of the three most knowledgeable individuals that I personally have ever encountered regarding the subject. Not that I am an expert it is just my opinion. By the way Dave Swinden is the champ I would pay to just have that guy sit in a room and talk about knives. The last time we met I took the opportunity to ask him a question that I had been trying to get an answer to for years. He looked at the knife in question and said Oh yea I remember that and in 30 seconds cleared up a bit of information that I literly had spend days on ( over the years). Dave started with Schrade while still in high school and was with them 50 years he recently retired as vice president of the company. He is an american success story who did it the old fashioned way ( by working ), he is also a gentleman and a pleasure to know. LT
 
Yes, Jimbo, this is one woman who knows a whole lot about knives. I originally wrote to Tim Faust, the so-called moderator of this forum (he is awol, and we regular posters will court-martial him for that offense if he ever shows up here again) with my Imperial Frontier questions. I found out a couple of months later when I made another inquiry that Ms. Chase was the person who had researched and answered my questions. She knows her stuff.

A couple of other women who know their knives deserve a mention here: The 'Knife Princess'-- Knife purveyor & writer, Cindy (Rabb)Taylor. Ruth Trout is another female knife writer. Grace Harvey of NordicKnives is a seller, as is Karen Sadow of Arizona Custom Knives. You could also stop by the Camillus forum and meet Cheryl, who operates CR Specialties (the only place I buy Cam-Becker products, regardless of price). I'll bet Betty (Mrs. Houston)Price, and Goldie (Mrs. AG Russell) could also hold their own in any discussion of blades. I could name off hand a half dozen other women involved in the world of knives, but you get the drift.

Phil
 
Thank you, LT for your input. And sorry again about the photos... Larry is a great guy (ask him about the Geo.Schrade sports knive and the matching clone I just sold him) and friend.

I'm basing my opinion on the true manufactor of the Frontier lineup on B.Levine's insistance that the knives were made by Camillus, and my own close examination of them, compared to other Camillus knives made at the same time. A good example (I think!) is the two bladed Camillus 'wildlife series' toothpick style fishing knive I just sold on ebay (have another one in my collection. One blade is flexible-- one is rigid. An idea carried over to the Frontier line- I have one of the filet knives that is rigid and another that is flexible. Not a comman practice, really.

Yes, I have noted similarities between older Frontier's and newer Schrades, particularly in the stockman patterns. I have on my desk in front of me the Frontier Scrimshaw that I mentioned upon starting this thread, and a brand new Schrade 881 stockman. Identical dimensions, many of the parts would interchange.

But there is a long, long connection between Camillus and Schrade anyway, isn't there (Albert Baer).

Anyway, I'd be interested in know where the factory photos shown in the catalog were actually taken.

And yes, LT, I do know what opinions are worth, particularly yours on this subject. Appreciate your help.

Phil

(I'm-- camp9mm -- on ebay. A dozen of my auctions ended last night, simply one left as of present, nothing old which to me means interesting. Been a hectic two weeks selling, but I'm ready to send off way too many $ for that old Luger P-08 I've wanted forever. As I've discussed with Larry V, selling knives to support my own collecting habit has become as interesting/entertaining/fascinating/time consuming as the collecting itself. )
 
I'll just add my 2 cents that Debbie has been a great help answering my Newbie questions with grace without making me feel the idiot I must be.
As for Tex and LT... Someone's gotta keep an eye on you two but you have to promise not to use those big words like "acumen" around me..
I had to dig out my ole Websters for that one!
Thanks
Larry
 
So I went to the Guru on the mountain and I asked my question "What is the the secret of the imperial frontier knives.?" This is what I was told. Originaly these were made by Imperial which was in Providence Rhode Island. (Notice how I phrased that ). They very well may have been made on contract for them by camillus. In fact if Mister Levine says they were I would say they were. Mr Levine is one of the most known knife authoritys in the world and if he says something he usually know what he is talking about. So why then do the pictures look so much like the Schrade factory. One explanation is that I guess most knife factorys look similiar. Another explanation ( the one I was told by the Guru ) is that when Schrade took over imperial they moved all the frontier stuff to Ellenville and assembled what was left there. This took some time so for a while the final product did come out of Ellenville. They also as you suspected utilized certain aspects of the imperial line in the Schrade line under various tangs. So now how do we verify well what years are your catalogues? If after 84 or even a bit before then it is Schrade. If it is a lot earlier Camillus or Providence. What I do know is that the Guru took out a tray antique treasures which will keep him well heeled in all the things Gurus need and I will now be eating bread and water for the next month to pay for them. By the way thanks to you this included 17 pristene powder horn Frontiers. Just what I needed a new vice. LT
 
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