The Sebenza and the Mnandi like to be updated too

Joined
Mar 17, 2009
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26
The 25 changed into the large Inkosi with some nice updates. What about a development of the Sebenza and the Manandi?
Will these knives ever be getting rid of the so called production hole (visible on the Sebenza and hidden under the inlay of the Mnandi)?
The little cut into the pivot area (extension of the cut that seperates the lock bar from the rest of the handle) could also be avoided with tools and machinery from nowadays as they are being used on the Inkosi line.
The pivot bushing knives are worth of a progress in design and manufacturing. IMO there is a lot of potential to improve the Sebenza/Mnandi.
No substantial changes on these knives means my collection and story with CRK has come to its final state.
Every story ends sometimes.
 
The 21 and Mnandi did get new washers recently, not that it's something obvious, but a change nonetheless.
 
The 21 and Mnandi did get new washers recently, not that it's something obvious, but a change nonetheless.

Very true. Though this is a relatively minor update, I've found the new lockside washer on the Sebenza to hold grease a bit longer than the previous ones. A completely qualitative observation, of course, but I have noticed it in routine cleanings.
 
The pivot bushing knives are worth of a progress in design and manufacturing.

I disagree here. I really like the bushing pivot the way it is. No tuning the pivot, no locktite needed. As long as you put it back together and lubed it properly, just crank the pivot down and go. If its not broken or flawed, why fix what works. Its engineering precision, and precision is what CRK is about. Wouldnt mind seeing a larger Mnandi, either. Maybe a medium Sebenza 21, also.
 
I disagree here. I really like the bushing pivot the way it is. No tuning the pivot, no locktite needed. As long as you put it back together and lubed it properly, just crank the pivot down and go. If its not broken or flawed, why fix what works. Its engineering precision, and precision is what CRK is about. Wouldnt mind seeing a larger Mnandi, either. Maybe a medium Sebenza 21, also.

Yep!! Thats well said. I am not sure why that didn't carry over to the 25.


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Yep!! Thats well said. I am not sure why that didn't carry over to the 25.

With CRK's tolerances, any pivot system will be of sound function and quality. I haven't had any issue adjusting my 25's with a little loctite, but at the same time, I absolutely do prefer the pivot bushing of the 21 for the simplicity of 'snug it down and done'.

Ultimately, I am happy that there are multiple options, and that it now seems both are here to stay.
 
I just want the old Regular back with the old non perforated washers.

Simplicity at it finest
 
I just want the old Regular back with the old non perforated washers.

Simplicity at it finest

^This^, would love having the Annuals back as well. Might as well bring back the previous style Mnandi too.
 
Whats the main reason. I never owned one like that. Does it stay clean longer and smoother as well? And did all regulars come like that? And yes. My only future purchase at this point would be a regular or A large inkosi some day. I've done the 21 thing enough in the past.

I just want the old Regular back with the old non perforated washers.

Simplicity at it finest
 
Yep!! Thats well said. I am not sure why that didn't carry over to the 25.


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The pivot can be tuned, and doesn't need to come back to CRK to have washers done when they get worn. User tuned, vs factory tuned. It's also cheaper and easier to manufacturer.

If you think about it from CRKs side, the warranty department is going to either have to grow forever, or has insane backlog times because of the necessary amount of returns they would continue to gather for every batch they completed. I'd say the only reason is isn't crazy now is because of how many people own multiples. If every knife they sold was a user, I bet the free spa would be a thing of the past, or it would the pivot bushing they had to axe.
 
The 25 changed into the large Inkosi with some nice updates. What about a development of the Sebenza and the Manandi?
Will these knives ever be getting rid of the so called production hole (visible on the Sebenza and hidden under the inlay of the Mnandi)?
The little cut into the pivot area (extension of the cut that seperates the lock bar from the rest of the handle) could also be avoided with tools and machinery from nowadays as they are being used on the Inkosi line.
The pivot bushing knives are worth of a progress in design and manufacturing. IMO there is a lot of potential to improve the Sebenza/Mnandi.
No substantial changes on these knives means my collection and story with CRK has come to its final state.
Every story ends sometimes.

The 21 got so many changes it was redesigned as the 25, then the market didn't respond with sales very well, and CRK wanted to differentiate the 2 lock faces so now the Sebenza 25 is the Inkosi.

Think of the 21 like the VW City Golf and Jetta. The product lines did go forward, but those models continued to be produced due to their popularity and ability to keep sales come in at that price point. 21's are such a large share of the sales, I think the 21 is not going to have much change other than potentially finishes and inlays to keep the product line a little refreshed. I doubt they would invest too much into the machinery used to make the 21 as it's a lot of risk and little reward. If things like the Inkosi start taking over sales, maybe the 21 will get a look. But I'm sure they are in no rush to risk it.
 
The thing is about the 21 and the Mnandi is that those are the money makers for CRK. The manufacturing process for these knives have been developed for a long time, so a radical change is unlikely. Rather, you will see incremental changes such as the new washers. The money that is brought in from the 21 and Mnandi feeds the R&D for new knives like the Inkosi. I do believe that one day, for manufacturing sake, the pivot bushing will be done away with. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of the pivot bushing. However the reality is that is it much less expensive for CRK to manufacture the Inkosi pivot, and as such I think it will end up being their go to pivot once the bushing goes away.
 
I dunno.....I don't buy the tale that the pivot bushing is crippling CRK. It's a tube of metal. If they can't make metal tubes to tolerance successfully, CRK should close up shop, because I'm sure it's harder to produce a nicely ground blade than a metal tube, IE bushing. It's a good system, but all the talk about how hard it is to achieve is mainly hype I would say. Spyderco cranks out PM2s with a bushing system all day long and no one I know is worried about the future of that knife.

The 21 is popular for good reason. It's a great knife that hasn't been bested in the CRK line up. When they make a better one, or improve it, all the same people who use and enjoy their 21s now will move forward. The 25 generally bombed, not because everyone is misinformed, it just doesn't have as wide an appeal. Sure some love it, but most choose another model.

If CRK cannot stay in business creating the very simple 21 pivot bushings to serve their clientele, they are losing one of the simple things they do to differentiate themselves, which would not make good business sense, at least to me.

If CRK needs help in figuring out how to make those tubes faster, or more accurately, I'm sure Sal or Eric would be happy to show them, but the smart people at CRK seems to be doing it just fine on their own. Let's face it......the pivot bushing isn't the make-or-break mountain of an issue that the gossip would have you believe. It's a metal tube. The threaded pivot of the 25/Umnum/Ti-lock/Inkosi is arguably a much harder part to make as it must both be the exact size of the blade hole, as well as be threaded inside and out and have a hex head. The 21 pivot is just a round peice of metal, that given enough time, I could probably make myself. I don't get why it's perceived as such a manufacturing wonder. Anyways, the truth is the 21 style pivot is a great and useful system, very popular with the fans, very robust, and very simple, which is why it's still around.

I'm with the OP generally. When an update to the 21 style knife is announced, I'll be back to saving for a CRK.....in the meantime it's older knives or other brands, or other hobbies for this fella. Still may scoop an Inkosi when the inlays are released, but would rather have a new bushing knife.
 
That metal tube is one of the most tightly toleranced parts of the whole knife along with the mating parts. When they are setup and running they typically run pretty well for a while. (around .0002in)
If there is a lag in the machine running and the machine cools down or the environmental conditions change, then the parts change..typically out of tolerance, then off to the scrap bin.
There isn't anyone that is going to show them how to do it..it's a common theme in the industry and it just takes time.
 
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