The will to survive

That sounds like a whole load of fun.

The only thing we get involved in is highangle SRT encompassing basic hauls and rescue techniques, tyroleans, ascend / descend techniques using everything from mechanical to shoe string prusiks, team belays, self belays, anchor techniques and placement, cave rescue, etc.

Man, I wouldn't want to pay for the staff you have. My wife's a nurse and if it wasn't for her making decent money I couldn't afford to play.
smile.gif


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Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com

 
GREG: It took me a while to find out too!
smile.gif

ROTFLMAO

Rolling
On
The
Floor
Laughing
My
A$$
Off
!



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Plainsman :)
primitiveguy@hotmail.com


 
I remeber that experience like it was yesterday. It was one of those things that wasn't funny when it happened but is bust a gut funny now.
http://www.ssurvival.com/MyStory.htm

The story, if I ever finish it, revolves around the trip from hell. Within the content of that trip I relive certain aspects of my training. At this time the details are very limited, dialog, and scenes aren't developed. But it gives a taste of my past.

ROTFLMAO

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Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
Hi Guys thank you for sharing your experiences, they are very informative. Now i have never been in any situations as serious as yours, but i know that they could of been bad if God hadn't helped me, I was on a hunting trip in the Pecos, Near Sante Fe NM, we were about 10,000ft. up and, it was October, it was in the afternoon and we were on our way back and we had gotten farther than we wanted to from camp, we looking at the map and realized that it was gonna be a very good walk back to camp and one of my buddys who is diabetic was dangerously low, and was out of supplies, a in the meatime a storm was building, before long it was about 10 deg. and it was snowing and blowing about 40-50mph. And so my dad led as we bushwacked and cut over a pretty big hill, we made it back wet but in one piece, now we didnt miss the camp, and never had to go around anything, we just went staight there, and im just thankful for that.
 
80% will
10% knowledge
10% equipment
Click to expand...

Can you separate the two first from each other?

For example, don't you think the huge attrition rate among downed aircrew during the 1939-45 war -- in perfectly rescuable situations -- would have been much better if they'd some knowledge of what to expect, and not just training in how to use their equipment and so on?

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Urban Fredriksson
www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/

"Smooth and serrated blades cut in two entirely different fashions."
- The Teeth of the Tyrannosaurs, Scientific American, Sep 1999


 
Yes. There is exceptions to every rule. In fact, the 80/10/10 is a rough wag to begin with. All are important. Life experiences, pysical abilities, etc. can change everything.

It's like saying the average temperature is 98.6 when in reality the average temperature of humans can range from 97 to 99 (or there abouts). This is just a guide and not something written in stone.

I have had the opportunity to talk to pow's from wwII, Korean war, Viet Nam, and the war with Iraq. One common theme for them was their will. I have talked to evaders from each war with the same response. Scott O'Grady (who endorsed my book) states that his faith in God and will to survive were the keys to his survival.

I guess the key to this exercise is that the Will To Survive is important. The numbers are rough wags (for you right brainers, I apologize).

Once again this is a thought provoking exercise. Lots of good responses!

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Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
Greg,

I didn't read all of the responses, but noted your reference to Capt. Scott O'Grady. His book "Return with Honor" deserves some mention (if it hasn't been addressed already) with this topic. Thanks.

Barry
 
Scott is a very nice, humble, and personable man. I have not, however, read his book yet.

He learned his survival training at the USAF Survival School at Fairchild Air force Base, in Spokane, WA

He's up there with people like Lance Armstrong.

Has anyone read the book.

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Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
>There is exceptions to every rule. In fact,
>the 80/10/10 is a rough wag to begin with.
>All are important. Life experiences,
>physical abilities, etc. can change >everything.

I guess I would juggle with the percentages just a little. Without downplaying the will to survive, I guess I would rate skills over equipment. A skilled person can improvise equipment where necessary. Possessing skills increases self-confidence, which in turn feeds into the will to survive. You can lose your equipment, or have it taken away from you; your skills are forever. I guess I would say that will is 80%, skills are 30%, and equipment is 10%. I know that adds up to 120%, but sometimes you need more than 100% to stay alive. :)
 
Walks Slowly: You think as I do on this one. A three to one ratio on knowledge to equipment is what I think too! I just looked at my original reply and see that I didn't write the percents down.

I was thinking along the lines of 80/15/5 or even MORE! Something like 80/18/2. IF you have the will then you can do most anything with anything. If you have the knowledge then you can create from the basis of "having done it before". Hence you need LESS equipment.

Knowledge to me means more than reading about it and knowing it. It means having learned the skill and having PRACTICED it! Once you have proven to yourself that you CAN do it, then your WILL will improve too! There is less of an unknown.

I'm starting to make myself believe the knowledge part is even more important in that it will improve the WILL part. But I'll leave my percents intact at this point!

smile.gif


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Plainsman :)
primitiveguy@hotmail.com


 
Excellent!!!!! Walks slowly and plainsman you have hit the nail on the head. Great insight!!!!!!!!! It's good to use these thought provoking exercises to work through and prioritize what we think is important as a survivor.

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Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
A good book to read about the will to survive is 'Five Years To Freedom' by Col. Nick Rowe. (I think I got the name and title right). He was a POW in Vietnam for 5 years, and escaped to tell the tale. What he went through is a great lesson to anyone wanting to learn about what a human can endure if he has the will to survive. Don't know if it's out of print, but it's still a great book, and worth reading.
 
Col Nick Rowe was an American hero. He spent most of his five years in a bamboo tiger cage. he suffered many illnesses. When Jane Fonda went to North Vietnam she blew his cover. He was an army intel officer but had told his captors that he was an engineer (I think he got his undergrad degree in engineering and thus he was able to pull it off...even when they gave him an engineering problem to solve as a means of proof).

After Jane Fonda gave a list of missing soldiers to the NVC along with their jobs...Nick suffered great beatings for his deceit. The VC were moving him to another camp where they planned to kill him when an american chopper saw the group and fired on them. He managed to escape by killing his guard during the confussion. The US chopper picked him up and he returned home.

Col Rowe was killed in ?1989 (or thereabouts) while serving his country as an advisor in the phillipines. he was killed by a communist guerilla force. He knew he was on their hit list but refused to leave.

Nick Rowe has also been credited with creating the Army SERE program.

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Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
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[This message has been edited by jrf (edited 12-26-2000).]
 
We did all the SERE stuff. We have a large elaborate POW compound and interegation center. A USAF Survival instructor could work in all aspects of survival.

We rotate through:
1. Basic Combat Survival Training (Global wilderness survival, interegations, POW, and parachuting)
2. Jungle survival - was in phillipines...not sure where now.
3. Arctic survival - in alaska
4. Open water survival (parachuting and not..two schools) - washingto state and florida
5. Desert survival - california
6. Survival for Medical Docs/Nurses who fly
7. And many other smaller location specific areas.

That's why our instructor training school is so long and why the Air Force is the only branch where teaching survival is your only job...we have no other duties and are not brought in TDY for a three year stint as an instructor before going back to our primary job (whatever that might be). After 3 years of combat survival...it's off to teaching arctic for 3, etc. etc. Oh yeah...no officers in the career field.

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Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
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[This message has been edited by jrf (edited 12-26-2000).]
 
Col Rowe was killed in 89 shortly after I arrived on Okinawa. The road he was ambushed on was also the road where 2 Ford Aerospace civilians were ambushed. (year and a 1/2 later I think) This is the only road in the area you can take. Col Rowes car was taken to Clark AB where I got a close look at it, not somthing I'd want to see every day that's for sure. If my poor old memory is right it seems like there was somthing like 90 bullet holes in the car.

We had to take this exact same road out to Crow Valley for training and we were locked and loaded looking for trouble when going through the natural choke points along the route, not to mention all the other problem areas and Barios. While for the most part the locals were friendly you had the occasional AK pointed at you by some stupid idiot and it was nice to point a M60 back at them (VBG)
 
Greg,
I had the pleasure of reading "Return With Honor." It most likely mirrored the author, in that it was a very humble "unglorified" account of Scott O'Grady's ordeal. He was very upfront about the mistakes he made and there was absolutely zero "macho posturing." On the contrary, he was lavish in his praise for others, including his survival instructors, life support personnel, and the Marines that pulled him out. Like Nick Rowe, this guy is a "real" hero, and I salute him.
Nahbi
 
Two of the best books I have ever read on the will to survive are,

1. Into the Mouth of the Cat - the story of a vietnam era pilot, Lance Sinjan(SP) I cam very sorry for the misspelling. This one will give you chills of what one man went through.

2. Endurance - the book of the Earnt Shakletons voyage upon the Endurance, quite possibly the most apt named book and ship voyage.
 
Lance Peter Sijon was a true patriot. He turned the Pararescue team away becouse the area was hot and he didn't want to risk their life. He didn't make it to them (won't try and write the book) and was later captured. He was hurt Reallllllllllly bad and his injuries were used against him when interogated. He said nothing. Even with his injuries, he escapes several times (once again don't want to give all the details...read the book) but unfortunately is recaptured. To learn how the book ends for our American hero...check out his book. We used him a lot for motivational stories while I taught Combat Survival at Fairchild AFB.

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Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
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