Thoughts on Leatherman Skeletool vs Juice S2

[ICSK]

Hey everyone, I've been thinking about getting either the Leatherman Skeletool or the Juice S2. I just wanted to share some of my thoughts and see what you think. There are some questions at the end I'd like answered. Please and thanks!

Leatherman Skeletool
The most obvious differences between the two are as follow:

• Scissors
• Can Opener
• Bit driver. I personally think ALL pocket sized (measurement according to Leatherman's site) and up multi-tools should include this. They make such a great bit kit yet so few models can use it!
• Carabiner attachment
• Pocket clip. Tip down . It seems like it was designed that way so I can't switch it.

Less obvious differences:

• One hand opening blade that could function fairly well as an EDC. Would prefer the grind to be higher up and the tip to come to a more abrupt point like the Charge/Wave series
• Slightly larger needlenose pliers (than the Juice S2).
• 1 inch longer. Not a big factor for me

My thoughts:
Couldn't the lack of tools on the Skeletool be overcome with keychain tools such as the ones pictured below? Before anyone else thinks this, here are my thoughts regarding "add another multi-tool to your keychain!". A S2, Micra, Style CS, etc would be nice but would cause too much redundancy (and keychain weight!) for my tastes.

Total weight:
Because the Skeletool has a fairly competent blade, I think it would serve the EDC purposes. Some of my weights might not be accurate. Couldn't find them anywhere on the web!

Skeletool (5.0) + Slip-N-Snip Scissors (1.0?) + P-51 (.5?) = 6.5 oz total
Fairly troublesome to assemble all the supplementary tools but I think it'd be worth it for the bit driver alone. I don't plan on putting a P-51 on my keychain but this was just to compare apples-to-apples in terms of tools.

Leatherman Juice S2
The most obvious differences between the two are as follow:

• Scissors. Yes, the Juice has them but I've read that they're not that great to use. I've never used them but I still think that Victorinox scissors are the best.
• Can Opener. I personally think this is a waste of space since one could just use the P-51 or P-38. Give me a file or saw!
• Bits. 3 flatheads!!!???? Give me a break. I'll take the bit driver anyday
• NO Pocket clip. Not really a concern for me. If it is for you, get a Nite-Ize eCLIPse. It was designed for cell phones but should work on any flat surface.

Less obvious differences:

• The blade is rubbish. Only serviceable as a backup blade in my opinion.
• Slightly smaller needlenose pliers (than the Skeletool). Better for precision work?

My thoughts:
While the Juice S2 is a better package in itself, I think the bit driver alone in the Skeletool is worth the trouble it'd cause to make the combo I described. The benefits regarding this combo is that while it's slightly heavier (I don't have any 1.8 oz EDC knives, especially not one that can at least match the Skeletool's in size), one can get a much better choice of EDC blade. For example, what if you want a tip up blade? What if you need a workhorse EDC that has plenty of jimping and aggressive G-10? The Skeletool is really a one-size-fits-all blade. Not really as versatile as the Juice combo.

Weight:
Juice S2 (4.4) + Nite-Ize eCLIPse (.3 according to my scale) + EDC Knife (1.8 or less) = 6.5
The reason I say the EDC knife should be 1.8 oz or less is so that it can match the weight of the Skeletool combo. You don't really need the Nite-Ize eCLIPse. Just trying my best to match apples-to-apples

My questions to everyone:

• Are the pliers on the Skeletool stronger than the S2? If so, why do you think so? My guess is that the difference is negligible. For me, I think I'd like the S2's pliers for more precision-oriented work.
• How well do the Slip-N-Snip scissors compare to the Leatherman Juice S2 in terms of size? Would the scissors on the Juice S2 be able to cut through zip ties with relative ease?
• Which tool is thicker? From my research they're about the same thickness but I'd like it if someone could post a photo comparison.
• Is my thinking flawed in some way? Did I forget some details? Post below if you think so!

 

[bigrob911]

I have been edcing my skeletool cx for 3 months. I love it. I have never been able to open the flat drivers on my juice s2. I love the bit drive and think that they should be on the juice also. IMO the juice is too slick in my hand and find it sliping out of my grip when i use it.

 

[holygoat]

Pliers are pretty much identical in general dimensions, but the S2's come to a finer (and more useful) point. I wouldn't really use the word "stronger"; neither of them is heavy duty.

Haven't used Slip-N-Snip scissors for years, but the S2's scissors are really nicely sprung, large, and part-serrated. They're really good; nearly as high quality as Victorinox, and longer, and open up to about 150°.

The Skeletool is bigger in every dimension, as well as being lumpy with poky-out bits I will post a photo shortly.

Additional points:
• I've never found the P-38 to be worth a damn; the tip bent right over on probably its second can. The S2's can opener is pretty good (though not as good as a SAK's).
• The pocket clip + decent blade on the Skeletool means that you can just about use it as a pocket knife and be happy.
• The Juice blade is non-serrated, which means it has more usable length than the Skeletool CX's.
• The Juice is much nicer dropped in a pocket. It'll fit in a coin pocket, too.
• Both cap lifters are merely OK; the Juice has a better action (because it's a fold-out tool), but the Skeletool's is right there in the carabiner hook. Swings and roundabouts.
• Hanging stuff on a keychain means that you don't have it when your keys are in your jacket pocket, hanging by the door, etc. The advantage of a multitool is that it's there with you when you need it.
• The bit driver is nice to have, but then again it basically means I have 2x Phillips and 2x Torx with me… which is, invariably, not what I need. If you're going to carry two bit kits, then you either have more pockets than me or you're using a bag or holster… in which case this whole discussion is redundant: get a full-size tool! I never consider "has a bit driver" to count for much unless it's a real hex driver.

 

[holygoat]

Pictures:





In general, I take the Juice as a small backup to a pocket knife, and the Skeletool if it's the only sharp thing I'm taking. YMMV

 

[ICSK]

Additional points:
• I've never found the P-38 to be worth a damn; the tip bent right over on probably its second can. The S2's can opener is pretty good (though not as good as a SAK's).
• The pocket clip + decent blade on the Skeletool means that you can just about use it as a pocket knife and be happy.
• The Juice blade is non-serrated, which means it has more usable length than the Skeletool CX's.
• The Juice is much nicer dropped in a pocket. It'll fit in a coin pocket, too.
• Both cap lifters are merely OK; the Juice has a better action (because it's a fold-out tool), but the Skeletool's is right there in the carabiner hook. Swings and roundabouts.
• Hanging stuff on a keychain means that you don't have it when your keys are in your jacket pocket, hanging by the door, etc. The advantage of a multitool is that it's there with you when you need it.
• The bit driver is nice to have, but then again it basically means I have 2x Phillips and 2x Torx with me… which is, invariably, not what I need. If you're going to carry two bit kits, then you either have more pockets than me or you're using a bag or holster… in which case this whole discussion is redundant: get a full-size tool! I never consider "has a bit driver" to count for much unless it's a real hex driver.

My Responses
•I wouldn't be using the P-38/P-51. The only reason I had it there was to compare apples-to-apples for my final weight comparison.
•Actually all versions of the Skeletool come in plain edge now. It's my preferred blade shape as well
•Regarding your bit driver comment, that must be awful! For me, I think I'd only need 2 sets of bits. 1x Phillips and 1x Flathead. I definitely consider the lack of bit storage to be one of the weaknesses of the Skeletool. The problem is that it's the smallest multi-tool that Leatherman makes that accepts the bit drivers - which I hold in high regard when combined with Leatherman's awesome bit kit. I almost wish I could modify that bottle opener to hold more bits!


Lastly, can someone post some pictures or the dimensions of the scissors? (I'm specifically looking for blade length and overall length of the scissors. Just treat it as if you were measuring half of the scissor as a knife!)

 

[holygoat]

The S2's scissors have a 1⅛" blade (according to the Charge's ruler markings!). Overall length is about 2½".

Here's a pic with a Charge and a SwissTool Spirit for comparison; note that the SwissTool's scissors are as wide open as they go. The Juice scissors are by far the longest. The Spirit's feel much sturdier, thicker, smoother, and stronger; they're more like compact shears than scissors. The Juice's would be great on paper and thread, if you didn't mind a little tearing from the serrations; the Spirit's would be useful on twine, thin wire, strong fishing line, leather, etc. The Juice's have blade play; the Vic's are solid as a rock.

 

[winkydo]

here is a quick video i made with my juice trying to cut a zip tie. i have always had problems with this, so i just use the plier head to twist the zip tie apart by grabbing the little locking box. here, you can see, even the little victorinox classic style scissors on my manager handle the thick zip tie with ease.

this should not talk you out of the juice though, i have used the scissors to cut all sorts of paper, cardboard, and leather. i'll upload a video of the removable bit adapter i carry with my juice tonight so you get an idea of how it works, and the capabilities it adds.

[video=youtube;dnZeMYqkxmk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnZeMYqkxmk[/video]

 

[Knife Crazied]

How about get both and switch them daily? j/k I personally like the juice better then the skeletool, but I own both and use each for different things. The scissors on the juice do suck though. I'd say the pliers on the skeletool are better also. Skeletool locking blade, juice slip-joint blade. Do you require a locking blade?

 

[winkydo]

here is an overview of the removable bit driver made by leatherman. i use it on my juice s2... it is a lot of extra stuff to carry, but i like that i can also use it with a 1/4" bit from my tool bag.

[video=youtube;rM_g-ofIe3g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM_g-ofIe3g[/video]

 

[ICSK]

Thanks for all the pictures and videos. They're much appreciated. I think that bit driver was what sealed the deal for me. I had no idea that Leatherman made such a thing for their Juice models. Now I just need to figure out how to incorporate that bit driver + kit into my EDC

 

[Knife Crazied]

Here is my review of the juice
[youtube]RoJGuU6Ts3s[/youtube]

 

[winkydo]

Yeah, like I said, I edc a manbag, sorta... It's stored always near by in maxpedition fatboy form or kelty laptop bag form... I edc the juice on me, so it's nice to have the bits nearby. Eventually I would like to get a Charge, but the weight would cause me to leave it in the bag out of edc arms reach... Most of the time staying in the truck.

 

[holygoat]

Thanks, winkydo! Never knew that existed. Gonna have to pick one of those up.

 

[Gadgetaholic]

here is a quick video i made with my juice trying to cut a zip tie. i have always had problems with this, so i just use the plier head to twist the zip tie apart by grabbing the little locking box. here, you can see, even the little victorinox classic style scissors on my manager handle the thick zip tie with ease

That's a deal breaker for me - the Juice is now off my wish list.
Quite often to remove a stuffed PSU from a computer there are several zip ties to cut, a multi-tool that can't do a good job of that isn't worth me carrying it. My Wave scissors don't do too bad for that task and when my SwissTool X arrives I'll test out the scissors on some zip ties.

 

[znapschatz]

How about get both and switch them daily? j/k I personally like the juice better then the skeletool, but I own both and use each for different things. The scissors on the juice do suck though. I'd say the pliers on the skeletool are better also. Skeletool locking blade, juice slip-joint blade. Do you require a locking blade?

Well, I kind of like the Juice scissors. To be sure, Victorinox sets the standard for multitool scissors, but the Juice gets the job done well enough so that I don't feel under-scissored with it. My wife, however, doesn't care for Leatherman anything. She tolerates a Squirt, absolutely won't touch a Micra, and forget about the rest. Her EDC choice is a SAK I gave her a long time ago when we were courting. Although I love and respect the Vic and own a few, I usually prefer Leatherman products because I find the tools better for my needs. On the other hand, she has asked me a few times what I see in those nasty things. Can this marriage be saved?

 

[Golddust]

Get the Juice pretty much everything you said about it is wrong anyways...

 

[Gadgetaholic]

Well, I kind of like the Juice scissors. To be sure, Victorinox sets the standard for multitool scissors, but the Juice gets the job done well enough so that I don't feel under-scissored with it. My wife, however, doesn't care for Leatherman anything. She tolerates a Squirt, absolutely won't touch a Micra, and forget about the rest. Her EDC choice is a SAK I gave her a long time ago when we were courting. Although I love and respect the Vic and own a few, I usually prefer Leatherman products because I find the tools better for my needs. On the other hand, she has asked me a few times what I see in those nasty things. Can this marriage be saved?

Sound like irreconcilable differences to me!

BTW:
The Squirt S4 is EXCELLENT! Those scissors cut zip ties effortlessly! I've thought about carrying it as well as my other tools just for the scissors - it isn't very big or heavy. But then again it would be another thing to carry and I already carry a heap of tools, lights and other stuff.
Squirt S4 = better scissors than the Wave, Cybertool or Ranger.
The Squirt S4 makes a great pair of 'tactical folding scissors'!
Unfortunately the other tools aren't all that fantastic. The blade is OK for its size, but it is really small - mine is razor sharp but still limited by the small size. The file is OK for fingernails. The bottle opener should work if you don't have a better one. The screwdrivers might be adequate on most screws. The tweezers are OK.

The fact is that if I carried the Squirt S4 as well as my current EDC items then I would only use it for the better scissors, every other tool it has is inferior to my other tools. Well maybe I'd use the file if I needed to do my nails.

I currently carry:
Victorinox Cybertool 34, Leatherman Wave (old model), Leatherman k502x, Widgy pry tool, peanut lighter, 3 flashlights, cellphone, 3 x 8GB USB flash drives, pen, pad, mini Sharpie black marker.

The Wave scissors do cut zip ties just fine, though it would be nice not to have to open out the pliers to get at them.

 

[ICSK]

Here is my review of the juice

Clever opening. Thanks for the tool overview. I'm actually a bit more dubious about the opening of the interior tools after watching your video. While your thumbnail wasn't in the best of shape, it still got me thinking about how others have commented on the bits being hard to extract.

That's a deal breaker for me - the Juice is now off my wish list.
Quite often to remove a stuffed PSU from a computer there are several zip ties to cut, a multi-tool that can't do a good job of that isn't worth me carrying it. My Wave scissors don't do too bad for that task and when my SwissTool X arrives I'll test out the scissors on some zip ties.

To be honest, that surprised me as well. While it's not a deal breaker for me, I thought for sure that the Juice would have an easy time cutting through zip ties. After all, my Wave can cut through them with relative ease and yet the scissors are much smaller.

Well, I kind of like the Juice scissors. To be sure, Victorinox sets the standard for multitool scissors, but the Juice gets the job done well enough so that I don't feel under-scissored with it. My wife, however, doesn't care for Leatherman anything. She tolerates a Squirt, absolutely won't touch a Micra, and forget about the rest. Her EDC choice is a SAK I gave her a long time ago when we were courting. Although I love and respect the Vic and own a few, I usually prefer Leatherman products because I find the tools better for my needs. On the other hand, she has asked me a few times what I see in those nasty things. Can this marriage be saved?

Maybe you could wean her off of them by getting her a Deluxe Tinker (lightest and smallest Victorinox model I know of that has pliers) and having her realize how useful pliers are in an EDC scenario haha. In all fairness though, a SAK isn't a bad choice. While you don't get as many tools as you would in a Leatherman, you certainly get a great all-around package. All the tools inside of the SAK work fairly well for what they are, a compromise (as is every multi-tool). Take the blades for example. Because the handle itself is very well contoured, it is fairly comfortable to use. You don't have a huge square-ish lump of metal as a handle like you would in any Leatherman.

Of course, those are just my thoughts. None of which are related to the original topic. Back to the original topic!

 

[Escremo]

Despite the identical look, pliers on juice are much stronger. I have juice s2 and cs4 and never was able to brake them with adequate use. I broke the Skeletool pliers on second day, being too cocky after juices. And it’s normal. The general thought is that pliers on Skeletool are massively over hardened. Who knows for what reason.

 

[Lesknife]

I have the juice S2 and for what I wanted in a smaller more pocket friendly multi tool it’s just right. The only thing I’d like is a good pocket clip. I don’t have a skeletool but from the ones I’ve handled in stores I couldn’t seem to get the right grip using the pliers so for that reason alone I prefer the S2 which I can grip well for a smaller tool frame. A bit changer would be nice but there’s always that one odd screw I’d need another bit for so in this reguard where does it end? I have a Wave handy when I know I’m going to be doing heavy work and keep it in the pickup if needed. Leatherman must be discontinuing the juice models and I’m glad I got one before they’re gone.