Using the V-Gar Re-visited

Joined
Oct 8, 1998
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Alright guys, I have searched high and low for this thing over at KFC, the search results produced nothing. It is lost in the bowels of CyberSpace. I also searched for the disk, again, no luck.

So...

Shall we start another one?

You guys lead it off and let me know which way you want to go with it first and we will personalize it to you guys.
 
Yes!!!

I have not yet received my V-Gar (it should arrive in a few days), but I eagerly await its arrival. I am interested in the manrikigarrotte as a flail since I am well versed in the chain. I also look forward to integratig the tear drop handle as a striking weapon for pressure point usage. But I am of course alsoo extremely interested in reading about its applications in areas I am not so familiar with such as grappling.

So let's start anew. I look forward to Don's and Fenris' contributions!
 
Don, once I get my compute up again, I think I have it on my hard drive. I would love to hear it all over again though. Last time I believe that you started with two basic strikes, forehand and backhand (coming over the shoulder) with emphasis on learning how to stop the manriki once it completed it's path and gaining confidence in swinging the thing. Then you moved on to drawing right into the strike. The main striking patterns covered a lot of ground and finally you began to touch upon trapping limbs, disarming knives and the choke (be very, very, very, very careful!!!)


Hope this gets things started,

Jason Yang
 
I'd most like to discuss deployment into an initial technique, from the stat pouch in different locations, as well as from the belt. Also, grappling techniques would be a welcome topic.

The most common place for me to carry the V-Gar is in the stat pouch, loop up, in my left back pants pocket, tied off to the belt loop in the center of my back. Deployment is with the right hand ("reaching for my wallet" motion), drawing out and around into a forehand flail strike.

Another common carry for me is with the stat pouch tied off on a carried object like my cell phone or camera. This presents issues because the V-Gar is no longer physically attached to me, but could be located anywhere around me. Because these objects are light, a two handed deployment is necessary. It does present an opportunity, though, if while handing the object over to a BG, a finger stays in the V-Gar's loop - They take the object, out pops the V-Gar. What next?

Having seen the KF thread, I strongly recommend to anyone new that they stay tuned - This is going to be great!

[This message has been edited by Brian_Turner (edited 06 October 1999).]
 
Alright...the first thing you want to do is explore your best, personal grip with the V-Gar.

The Looped end can be gripped in a specific way that gives you more accuracy and control.

I prefer to grip the Looped end with the pinky and ring finger OR the ring and middle fingers. The cable then lays almost diagonally across your palm and is pinched by the thumb and index finger...this will give you almost magical control, more so than just gripping it with the index finger or some other combination...

The Teardrop end, likewise, can be gripped in a couple different ways. All of this depends on the size of your hand, ideally, you should have a small portion of the "pointed" end protruding from the bottom of your hand. This is for close quarters striking. You can have the Teardrop in your hand...and the cable coming out between the index and middle fingers OR, between the middle and ring fingers. It all depends on your hand size.

For speed and familiarity, you should decide these two things for yourself before we go on. These are things that have to be figured out and decided on before you really start whipping this thing around and spending a lot of time with it.

You want to find the way that is most comfortable for your hand size and then begin to build your skills from there, a firm foundation makes for the best house. You do not want to spend hours drawing this weapon to find out that there is a better way to grip it, you waste all that muscle memory practice.

Next we will cover striking...
 
Yes, Mr. Rearic!! I totally agree with your 'version' of the grip! There's definitely more control than holding it with your index and middle finger. I used to hold it the other way, but after hitting myself numerous times, I decided that there has to be a better way. As a matter of fact, in the book, Spike and Chain, by Charles V. Gruzanski (Tuttle Publishing, 1967) the author uses the same grip.(Kinda the same, anyway)

I carry the Manrikigarrote in the belt daily, and after I pull it out, my hands are in position to either stike with a upward blow, or a downward blow. I simply let the teardrop fall and swing it in a loop to hit the BG on top of the head, or reverse the loop so I hit him under the chin(or somewhere in the neighborhood) I'm a firm believer in focused strikes as opposed to just swinging the teardrop like crazy and whacking whatever comes in its path. Strike your target, and then move, retain the manrikigarrote(which can be done by grasping the steel cable with your other hand during mid-flight; be sure to grab it slightly off center towards the teardrop part, or else the pointed end will nail your forearm or wrist...takes a LOT of practice, but pretty soon you'll be doing it smoothly) and go back into your guard position.

Practice, practice, practice. I set up targets in my basement, and drill strikes from the belt position. I use cardboard.
Anyway, any other tips and/or tricks would be mucho appreciated.

Thanks! Hope this makes sense, cause I just woke up!
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And if you want the maximum speed, do not let the teardrop fall any, just straight out of deployment to the first strike, draw to strike. But we will cover that tomorrow.
 
Just wanted to say that I tried carrying the manrikigarrote in the stat-pouch in my back pocket; thanks for the tip, Mr. Turner! I usually keep the stat-pouch in my waistband, but the back pocket can work.

Mr. Rearic,
I'm SCARED to use the manrikigarrote in one fluid draw/strike! Last time I tried to do it, I accidentally nailed myself on my collarbone with the tip of the teardrop, and the whole side of my body became instantly NUMB!! HUGE bruise, and I felt very silly. It could have been worse, I know, but that little incident made me very careful with the way I practice strikes. Maybe there should be a soft rubber trainer for the manrikigarrote? Real soft rubber?
wink.gif


Of course, I could be doing the move totally wrong....
Somebody help me before I hit myself between the legs!
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With the risk of being a little anxious here. I would love to learn more about trapping limbs and choking with this weapon. I personally have no V gar, since I live in Holland and don't have the cash right now, which makes ordering it kind of a big step for me, but I like the concept. I have been trying to figure out some techniques with a strong piece of cord, which I assume is very different. But carrying a V Gar must be as easy as pocket lint, I really would like to learn about some techniques for this weapon.
 
A bandanna with a coin tied in one corner makes a good initial trainer -- you won't maim yourself with that.

It's too much easier to control, though ... there ought to be one or more steps in between bandanna and V-Gar.

-Cougar Allen :{)
 
if you attach a balled up sock or something similar to some twine or yarn you will have a good trainer. this will at least help you get used to swinging something and once used to that, you should be able to transition to the vgar w/little problem.
 
Striking...

You guys, be careful! Make sure you get some type of shooting/safety glasses or goggles, as we progress through this stuff, eventually purchase a pair of DeSantis Low Light Simulator Goggles. Then you get your low light stuff down too. Where some kind of safety glasses...these things we do are all about life saving techniques and you do not want a nasty injury, temporary or permanent.

If any of you get really radical with this or other impact weapons, I would suggest you get some sort of mouth protection too. You can buy 3 V-Gar Systems for the cost of 1 permanent cap, and we are talking about something that has the ability to take about 4 teeth out at once...remember that and be careful.

Flexible weapons are an entirely different thing guys...and there are some mechanics involved that are very important...things that you have to understand from the beginning...

Alright, now there are 9 basic angles. Anyone in The Fillipino Arts or the Bujinkan will immediately start from this point, and you should too.

I cannot draw you a picture on here, so you have to use your imagination if you have no experience with this stuff.

You have a a downward diagonal from right to left, this is a forehand strike.

Downward diagonal from left to right, a backhand strike.

These are usually referred to as a #1 & #2 strike, respectively.

Done in a fluid manner, these two strikes performed one after the other form a large Figure 8.

Then you have horizontal right to left.

Horizontal left to right.

Next would be diagonally upwards from the low right to high left.

Then diagonally upwards from low left to high right.

These two diagonal strikes, performed with fluidity, become a Figure 8 strike that is reversed from the front.

I know this is a little confusing, print this out and bear with me.

So far, we have 6 striking angles.

The 7th is vertically straight down through the centerline.

The 8th is vertically straight up, through the centerline.

The 9th is a "thrust," with the weighted flexible weapon, this becomes a snapped, straight in shot at any target, similar to whipping a towel at someone.

Now all of these striking angles change planes, or gates, there is high, middle and low. This is the basic concept that drives the Fillipino Arts, and it is a functional way to grasp the idea that you should address angles instead of specific attacks or defenses. It gives you a basic diagram with which you can practice constantly, it matters not if the weapon is edged, impact or flexible.

What you want to do is start off with just 2 angles and proceed from there, and if that is all you choose to do, pick the 2 angles that are most likely to be a natural progression from your draw.

Whichever angle feels natural coming out of the draw, start there. You can practice all the angles, but to get functional in the shortest period of time, you want the angle right out of the drawstroke.

In any swinging strike with a flexible weapon, think of the arc that weapon takes during solo practice (whipping it through the air) and divide that arc into 3 equal "pieces."

With the arc of the weapon in flight divided into thirds...let's break that down;

The first third is the zone of acceleration, this is where it is drawn and it goes from 0-100 in an instant.

Ideally, anywhere in the second third, the middle zone, is where some sort of impact is going to occur.

The last zone is one of deceleration, in solo practice, you have to have a full understanding of this zone...this is where the "braking" occurs so you do not hit yourself and if you do, the strike is "pulled" like a punch so you do not hit yourself very hard. You need this in case you miss too, or else you take the brunt of the weapon.

While the first 2 zones in this arc are self-explanatory, the third needs to be touched on.

You have to decelerate a flexible weapon in the third zone of the arc. This is a must.

You have to start out painfully slow and learn to "pull" the strike in the beginning of the 3rd zone (is this complicated enough, or are you guys following me?) and as you start slowly swinging this, and actively learning to put the brakes on this thing, you are going to find you have a lot more control of it. It takes some practice at coming out of deployment lightning fast and generating speed, speed=power, then continuin to that point which the deceleration has to happen or you get struck.

Work on this, then we will touch on some other areas.

It is the weekend! Take the time and do not hurt yourself.
 
Thanks Don! Quick question...do you ever use your other hand to help decelerate the manrikigarrote? Or do you just decrease the speed at the end of the arc?

Thanks again!
 
Don,

I was showing my V-Gar to Guro Frank today and he really liked it. Do you ever strike with it by grasping less than the full length of the cable? It seems that one can get a lot more control and brutal close quarters strikes by grabbing the handle and then some cord closer to the teardrop. One can wrap it around the hand some, too.

Jason Yang
 
Jason,

Oh yeah! You can go all out in CQC with a 2 handed hold...absolutely. And it will be effective.

Back a few months ago, Guro Frank and I were talking on the phone about flexible weapons...I am happy to see that he likes it. Maybe in the future, for his birthday or something, we could all get together and chip in $30.00 and buy him the V-Gar rig complete...something he could wear every day.
 
Braking the manrikigarrote.

Part of this is stiffening the arm and a pulling back, much like you "pull" a punch.

The other mechanics of it are twisting the torso in the opposite direction or, just using the whole body to slow it down. There is no way to explain this in words that I know of, but once you do it, alight bulb will come on and you will see...

Footwork...

We will touch on footwork in the striking as well. But you can use footwork, almost spiral footwork to slow the weapon down as well.

The V-Gar is a very personal weapon, and I am sure that many of you can and will become proficient with it, and I am sure that you will all look different when doing various strikes...flexible weapons, especially this one, they all handle very differently...the manrikigusari (kusari fundo) Japanese Chain handles differently then a Chinese Steel whip, which handles differently than a Chinese Meteor Ball, and they are all another world away from Nunchaku. It is very much a personal weapon...
 
Sorry about the lack of posting on this...rough week at work.

Now...long range striking...once you get a feel for how to brake this weapon...to control it, and yes, you can use 2 hands but learn both ways...here we go.

You have to decide on not only what your 2 personal carry methods/positions are going to be...but you also have to decide how you are going to use it.

Solo, or solo with an edged or other weapon as an option.

Are you using the V-Gar System to creat distance to draw an edged weapon? Or are you primarily a "V-Gar Guy/Gal" who is going to use it solo, a lot...

If you are going to use it and and edged weapon, then you should learn to use the V-Gar with your non-knife hand...ideally, you should not have a non-knife hand...but you know what I am talking about, we all gravitate toward our Master Hand.

To make the Manrikigarrotte a really long distance weapon, to make it a very deceptive weapon...in whatever hand you are going to use it...the same leg on that side should be back, as you begin the swing to launch, this foot will step forward, this gives you, from an assailant's point of view...another 1 1/2 to 2 feet of distance immediately closed...depending on your size. In other words, if you are using it in the left hand, the left leg will be the farthest back...as the swing begins, this foot begins moving to a point equal with the other foot, then overtakes the position as the lead foot/leg. See what I mean?

You hang way back there, and all of the sudden, you have closed distance and have an extraordinary amount of distance...the reverse can be done as well to create distance...you can close distance on someone who thought you too far away...as well as fade back in an instant...

More coming...what do you think?

 
Don,

Never seen a V-Gar, but I have understood what you have been saying (at least everything but the experiential part). Sound practical and effective (with practice), and I appreciate your adding the warning about protection when practicing.

I'm always intrigued by systems I haven't learned. Thanks for a most descriptive re-visit thread.
 
Hey Don, thanks for the info! Don't worry if you take too long; just gives us more time to practice!

I basically use the V-Gar as an anti-knife tool. In other words, if some BG pulls a knife on me, out comes the V-Gar! Also, for multiple attackers, what better than a solid piece of titanium swinging at their heads at about a thousand miles an hour? Unless you have a bull mastiff, of course.

I like the long range striking techniques. Will practice it on my kids when they get home from school
wink.gif


Show us more Don!
 
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