Warning! Lots of bad words, thoughts and images.

Good reply Luke And as Always Mick Very Good Stuff here. Most instructors will tell you to run but we are past that part there is no run, no choice. Live... Die... that is the only choice. Remember your BG is thinking the same way you are... He lives you die... It comes down to the basics... club, slash, poke... Whatever order you put them in matters little as long as you do go through your target... Mick said your BG has friends they are also threats. Poke and hope...? who really knows I have been in one confrontation with Knives. It worked out well for both of us I had no where to go... He did; he ran... knife in hand cussing me all the way but that is as close as I have been to a knife fight. Mick is right. All thought changed when I realized he had a knife and I had no where to go but through him. Instincts did take over I did hunch forward my knife came out as if it were willed not as if it were an action. It just happened. Time did change... my BG slowed down, I speeded up... how weird that until now I never thought of these things. I would have killed him... or I would have died. But I would have faced him and I think that is what scared my BG.

Thank you Mick and Duane for making a great knife. The finest weapon we wield is our brain... choose all other weapons knowing that you must protect your CPU in order to walk away.


http://www.fotoasylum.com
http://www.fotograffix.com
 
I liked this discussion a lot.
First, I am not properly trained in knife fighting, as my comments will point out.

OK, I'm being attacted, and all I have is my knife. If he sees my knife, I will hold it blade forward in close to my body with my left hand up, and slash anything near at hand but trying not to leed with my knife hand. If I'm able to get a cut in, then I will try and follow with a thrust in the upper torso. I will leave my left arm out as my sacrafical lamb, for defence, not bait. If given the oppertunity, I will put it in to the hilt as many times as I can until he stops moving.

If he does not see the knife, then I will have it reverse grip, with spine against my arm. I will show as much fear as possable (all real), and act submisive. Then I will go as apesh** as I can, with left fist flying, and the blade with at least one slash, before icepicking chest, face etc...

Now back to reality. I know Murphy well, and his laws always apply! This is not a plan, because they fall apart in combat. This is a concept of offensive defence. I have been in many fights (thankfully, without weapons)and you get hurt. Pain suck, but if you feel it you are still alive.

Just a side note. If you are ever attacked, and you use deadly force. Remember to use the words, "I was attacked", "He was going to kill me", "I want to press charges" even if hes dead. Never let the son of a bitch look like the victim. If you do, you may end up ruined and in jail, just for doing what had to be done. Setting your self up as a victim, and you as defending your life is very important. When the first LEO rolls up, you will look like the attacker. I hope this never happens to any of us, but if it does, LIVE!!!!
SOX
 
This is an interesting thread...

I ask this question not to inflame, etc.....but has anyone here actually ever killed someone with a knife?

Me, no, I know a couple that have, no glamour stories about it either. I got stabbed (lightly) several times in the elbow a long time ago...he was going for my ribs, it was with an icepick-like tool..I did not even know it until it was about 1/2 hr later when I took my coat off and the blood make it stick to my arm.

I have seen alot of knife injuries in 15 years of emergency room work though. Mostly steak knives.
 
I don't think that themajority of us have, and the ones that have usually don't want to talk about it. I've been stabbed in the gut and forearm though.
 
Like I said, this is a great thread because this stuff needs to be discussed somewhere.

To witness the aftermath of a knifing is an eyeopener to say the least. Absolute brutality.

Certainly, the stab attack can be and is lethal, but a well landed slash just about anywhere takes the fight out of about anyone. I am sure there are exceptions to the rule....

I saw one guy a couple years ago who caught a steak knife (applied by his girlfriend) in the lower left side of his neck and the blade tip actually punctured his right lung.

Another remarkable case was a "gone bad" drug deal where the "good guy" caught a blade right in the forehead and it snapped the blade. He said that the only reason he came to the ER was because he thought that there might still be some metal there. The blade fractured his skull and caused air to leak into his intracranial cavity. He recovered fully...probably only involved in "good" drug deals now.

One nite I had to a fully body trauma CAT scan on a person who had multiple stab wounds all over the torso. I have to mark the entrance to each wound with a small radiopaque marker so they can see it on the scan. The trauma surgeon was pretty excited about this case and asked me my thoughts on it. I did my best monotone "Dirty Harry" and said "just another victim of poor training and inadequate bladeware". The look on his face was priceless.
 
Just wondering X-rayed do you do a standard x-ray before the cat? I wonder this because of possible blade breakage during attack. Unless the knife was a Strider than I am not worried about breakage; I am however wondering how this guy was living.... but that is not the question at hand.... ok so it was a bad joke sorry../



http://www.fotoasylum.com
http://www.fotograffix.com

Brandon
 
Yeah, this guy was walking and talking....just a big deep laceration to his head. Strange things like this happen quite often.

Actually I would think that a plain film should be done but alot of ER docs will jump right to CT Scan because it will give the same info and they will end up there anyways.

If I remember right it went in reverse order in this case....we did the CT and then a plain film later.

Where I work (3rd shift), I have a dual role job, CT and xray.
 
Mick:

I believe you said the following:

"Martial arts are wonderful. They teach balance, speed, power and body mechanics. They teach technique, which gives us confidence. Some go deeper into spiritual issues...."

I SAY: "THAT'S RIGHT!"

You went on to say: "Unfortunately, all of those things go away when you are standing there with a knife in your hand. All of those techniques, all that breathing, ALL OF IT. Gone."

I SAY: "WHAT?...... IT'S NOT GONE. NONE OF IT IS. IF YOU'VE PRACTICED HARD AND CONTINUOUSLY, IT'S ALL THERE. AND THAT'S WHY AN UNARMED MARTIAL ARTIST W/ YEARS OF EXPERIENCE WILL HAND A WEEKEND KNIFE COMMANDO (WHO WASTED A BUNCH OF MONEY ON SOME STUPID SEMINAR IN THE DESERT) HIS AN*L ORIFICE WHEN PUSH COMES TO SLASH. NO KNIFE, NOT EVEN A STRIDER, MAKES UP FOR YEARS OF INTENSE, DEEP AND SMART MARTIAL ARTS PRACTICE. AND, BY THE WAY, THE GUY WHO SPENT A LONG, LONG TIME LEARNING BREATHING TECHNIQUES TO KEEP HIS MIND CLEAR AND TO MAKE THE WORLD SLOWER.......WINS. HE SEES THE FIGHT COMING LONG BEFORE IT'S A FIGHT."

You continue: "Instead, your vision becomes tunnel. Reparation, fcked. Fine motor skills (technique), GONE. Your body hunches a bit, shoulders move inward. All of this to protect, instinctively, your important parts."

I SAY: "NO IT DOESN'T".

I don't agree with you, but you make fantastic knives.

P.S. What's a "flame"? I used to do this thing w/ a match after eating a bean burrito, but I don't see how that applies here.
 
Okay, we disagree. Keep making those knives, though. Now, for the important question: What's a "flame"? I keep asking my computer-savvy friends, but they just look at me as if I stepped in something.
 
I will add just MY personal experience.

I was pretty-well trained and had ten years of very active LE training and experience at the time.

This was NOT my first gun call or shooting.

When the SH*t hit the fan, I had tunnel vision, My finger tips became VERY numb,and all thought process ceased. I could NOT think, just act, and do what I was trained to do, only to discover this incident was far beyond what I was "trained" to do.

So Tunnel vision is reality. Loss of fine motor skills is reality, and the ability to think clearly is out the window, and IMHO, I do not care how many years of training and experience you have. You will fight for your life, do what you do, and do it as the will to survive has now become the primary THOUGHT running through your brain, and probably the only one...........

unless you are a sociopath and devoid of all physiologic human reactions that take place after the fight of flight kicks in, the adrenaline dump takes place and you are now in a fight for your life, you will lose peripheral vision, the loss of fine motor skills is real and hopefully, if you come out on top, or just survive, you will need a lot of time to put together exactly what just took place in a matter of seconds, because your brain worked on "auto-pilot"..........Ira

****THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY******
 
Its just the way it is.
Unless you train like a damn Spartan.
Not a lot of Agoge training left these days.


Mick
 
I have trained quite a bit in martial arts, as well as some knife play. I AGREE with Mick on all points. The martial arts may have helped in fact I think they did. Knowing what I know helped me to stand my ground. Without M/A I may have run or even incured the wrath of my attacker by cowing to the aggression; who knows? What I do know is all the things Mick discribed happened to me. So there is that. Types of arts to many to list but have been a practiced artist for alittle over 15 years.


Brandon

http://www.fotograffix.com
http://www.fotoasylum.com
 
Hmmmmmm fascinating thread.

Conditions not stated, are you gonna kill or just leave him there in a red covered pile? If so have lots of money and a good lawyer, cause you're gonna be sued, - - forever.

basics: forehead, chest, groin.

No flash, not trash, when the window opens take it or leave. The movements of the opponent will soon be noticed, hopefully you are observant? Don't hesitate. I don't care if you do circular or right angular moves or have a degree in math, Make him hurt. Leave him an option, if he choses the wrong move FINISH IT! Leave only one liar standing!

Stabbing Down past the sub-clavian, Instantaneous. if you were lucky enough to get in that close.

face, sides of cheek, where lot of blood will come out, across the bridge of nose, this is nasty ****, it also is highly frightening.

Brother is a doc, told me one day 'nick the pericardium (sack around the heart) and 4 seconds later he's logging in with St. Peter' (dead to you heathens!) Hard stabbing bone breaking thrust, under or overhand (reverse is nice but its nastily close) into the center of the chest. Hope the blade is at least pointy.

that said, driving in one solid hard shot to the heart is a final but not instantaneous move. Gotta let that hydraulic pressure drop, then you can sign your name in his carcass if you desire.

My basic toy, a Bowie, nothing else satisfies me and I'm fat old and not willing to lose. I have a Clark Bowie, I am lucky, it will do and take any abuse I can dish out, now that I've mentioned a brand and a style you may unleash on me!

By the way, a Bowie is a psychological weapon! that oh so big glittering blade (mine glitters) just sings of pain and suffering. LET HIM READ THIS IN YOUR ACTIONS. He, the perp will most likely turn and leave.

That said I'd put five in his head if he EVEN looked like he wanted to cut me. Makarov 9X18, and yes I know how to shoot.

Agincour (a pussycat at heart, til you step on my tail).
 
This is a simply phenomenal thread, full of horible images and excellent information, which honestly I wold prefer never to learn firsthand if I can avoid it. Training rubber or plastic is good enough. I have had enough stiches for one lifetime.

Mick, I love the new SA for its sole devotion to being a combat weapon for those moments when all sht is coming apart and the only way out is a hard brutal response, intent to murder another human being, or two or six, and to do so in inhumanly rapid succession. There is no other way to put it, it is late for me, hard training tonight and it makes me think about this sort of thing hard.

Fifteen years of training, hard contact, playing with edged and impact weapons and other idiotic amusements have confirmed


A Tunnel Vision exists.
B Deep Rage and Fear are interconnected.
C Fighting taks way too long if I intend to go home tomorrow. He
needs to die NOW.
D Knives are far better weapons for me than any firearm, there is no
safe place to grab a knife. They are quiet. They are discrete.
E They make big f()cking holes in what you shove them into and rip
and tear your way out of.
F Fine Motor skills do not exist after a cup of coffee and you think
they will be there when you are fighting for your life?
G There is only one way in my own mind to train for such an eventuality, and that is to have the mind set that YOU are trying to KILL ME.


Mick, you have hit perfectly square the gravity and the severity of the combative use of a knife. I cannot add anything else of consequence. Thank You for this.
 
...'if' you're concerned with what 'may' happen after the fact, what 'might' happen when it's all done and said...then you've lost.

It isn't about that kinda 'stuff', so perish the thought...

Most of us won't ever 'be there', but if we are, it's immediate. If you don't 'solve' the equation immediately, then there is no tomorrow.

Do it, do it now, do it fast, and do it with extreme prejudice...if you're lucky, real lucky, you'll walk away unhurt and without explanation...chances are that won't happen, but again..you're still walking, and it IS after the fact...

Mel

"Here and now boys, here and now" Major Major, Catch-22
 
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